The return of the complete C5 Clutch Install guide
05-19-2016, 09:49 PM
#81
Resident moron
Thread Starter
Hmmm how about I just attach both guides to this post? That should last a while. My ISP did away with the free websites, unfortunately.
Dope
Dope
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05-20-2016, 02:41 PM
#82
Tech Contributor
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CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
This is one of the best comprehensive Clutch Removal/Reinstall post on the forum. WELL DONE to Dope for taking the time to put it all together.
In an effort to help people complete this task and cover all the bases to get it done without having to REDO it because something went wrong, I would like to add some LESSONS LEARNED to this post.
I did a HEADS/CAM/ FAST-90/90mm TB mod to my 02 ZO6. As soon as we made the first pass on the car with the newly found power, the CLUTCH peddle stuck to the floor!
I knew that I had to invest in a NEW clutch that would survive to at least 500 rwhp. In goes the SPEC $1200 Dual Disk clutch assy!
After reading ALL the problems/stumbling blocks/drivetrain vibration issues/ ect... ect..,, I DREADED taking on this job. I do ALL my own work. I do it all either flat on the ground or JACK STANDS. If you have the time, tools, work space, good mechanic skills and desire to save some cash; doing this your self is rewarding!
Clutch Hydraulics/Quick Disconnect fitting. As Dope stated, it can be a royal PITA! Take the time to clean the dirt and grime off the QD fitting. I spray mine with some WD-40 and allow it to soak into the joint between the male and female fitting where the "White Release Ring" is.
The AC Coupler Fitting Quick Disconnect Tool works great. You can also use a FLARE NUT Wrench that is big enough to fit around the body of the small side of the fitting. When You are ready to press the white ring to release the fitting,, PRESS THE TWO HALVES OF THE FITTINGS TOGETHER" AND THEN PRESS IN ON THE WHITE RING! It will allow the white ring to slide in easier.
Once the white ring is fully seated and its pressed all the way in, the fittings should pop apart easily once you release the pressure pushing it together.
Pilot Bearing removal and reinstallation: IMHO, this is a CRITICAL part of the install. If you damage the new bearing, you will very soon be doing this ENTIRE job AGAIN!
Here is what Ive learned after doing this on several different C5s. Rent/Borrow/ beg or Purchase a three jaw removal tool that PROPERLY grips the area behind the OLD bearing. I rented mine from Autozone and I had to slightly GRIND a relief on the small puller arms so that it would fit properly.
The damn old bearing is VERRY VERY VERY VERY tight inside the hole in the crank. Trust me on that one!
I found that carefully HEATING the end of the crank shaft (Flywheel removed) SIGNIFICANTLY aided in old bearing removal! Figure out what 150-200 degrees is and thats ALL that you need to heat it to. NO MORE than that!
I used a small propane torch but a Wagner power stripper also works.
Bearing INSTALLATION! If you pound in a new pilot bearing and deform the bearing case, it could cause it to fail. I have pounded in one without heat and several with the aid of heat. I will NEVER again do it without heat. You should also put the NEW BEARING in the freezer and when the crank is properly heated, remove the bearing form the freezer and be ready to install it. The crank hole being expanded from heat and the bearing case being shrunk from freezing, will make installation easier and less bearing abuse. Mine easily tapped in with out deforming the bearing case
WHAT EVER YOU DO, I would NEVER put in a new clutch using an OLD PILOT bearing!
FLYWHEEL/DRIVE TRAIN BALANCE! GM found out that cars using a ridged Torque Tubes (like C5) can have excessive drive train Noise/Vibration/Harshness (NVH) if the engine is within normal GM engine balance spec. SO,,, They take the engine/pressure plate/flywheel through an ADDITIONAL HOT BALANCE for ALL C5 MN6/MN12 cars. For that matter the C6 and C7 MN6 cars also have this procedure done.
During that procedure, the engine is run on a high dollar vibration analysis machine and weights are added to the FLY WHEEL & Harmonic Balancer to get the rotating assembly very accurately balanced. They ADD weighted PINS to the outside of the ring of the FLY WHEEL and Dampener to balance the engine assy.
When you REMOVE the flywheel from the crank, it MUST be reinstalled back onto the crank in the same alignment relation as it came off. MARK the relationship of the crank & flywheel prior to removing. Inspect you OLD flywheel and see if it has any balance pins installed from the factory. If it doesn't, installing a ZERO BALANCED new flywheel will / should be all you need to do.
IF,,,,,,, you have balance pins in the old flywheel, you will need to get the new flywheel OFF SET BALANCED to match the off set balance of the OLD flywheel. NEVER DISGUARD your old flywheel until you have the car back together and are happy with the NVH of the drive train.
If you are replacing the flywheel with a new AFTERMARKET flywheel, it most likely will NOT have any holes on the outer ring for those pins. MOST all aftermarket flywheels come from the manufacture ZERO BALANCED! If you have factory installed weighted pins in your old OEM flywheel, and install a ZERO BALANCED, there's a high probability that you will have drive train vibrations, usually in the 2000-4000 RPM Range. You will need to take the NEW FLYWHEEL and the OLD FLYWHEEL to a machine shop and have the New Flywheel OF SET BALANCED to match the balanced of the old one!
Here is a POST that explains HOT BALANCE:
- C5 Clutch Vibration Issues: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...post1585950971
- C5 FLYWHEEL BALANCE ISSUES: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ion-twice.html
SLAVE CYLINDER SHIMMING! If you are replacing the old clutch parts with new GM clutch parts, you can probably SKIP this step. That being said, I ALWAYS Check mine! It takes 30 Min!
If you are installing aftermarket flywheels, pressure plates, slave cylinders, the SLAVE CYLINDER may not have the correct release clearance between the throw out bearing and the fingers on the pressure plate. Too MUCH clearance will NOT allow complete clutch release. Too little will cause the clutch to slip and burn up the new clutch and the throw-out bearing to burn up.
My SPEC clutch came with a throw out bearing SHIM. The clutch install instructions stated "INSTALL THE INCLUDED SHIM" behind the slave for proper engagement height. HMMMMMMMMM
I did the required Critical Measurements and my installation DID NOT need the shim! Man am I glad that I took the time to double check!!
Here is a link that explains the SHIM measurement methods:
- C5 TICK Master Cylinder FACTS: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...inder-kit.html
PLEASE take the time to check yours and insure that its correct. Now is the time to correct it if it needs to be corrected.
REMOTE BLEEDER: I can NOT tell you how many times that I said "THANK GOD" when I used the remote bleeder to bleed the slave! IMHO, You should spend the cash for a Remote Bleeder.
While you have the drivetrain OUT,, Please inspect the Torque Tube Rubber Couplers and the TT Bearings. If you have worn / cracked /damaged old couplers, ORDER and INSTALL at a minimum the actual GM Couplers!! DONT EVEN THINK about using the Auto Parts Store DORMAN Replacements! They are TOO SOFT and will fail in short order!
Differential. You should replace the OUTPUT Shaft seals in the differential at a MINIMUM.
I started recommending replacing the small VENT on top of the differential as the little rubber seal inside the vent deteriorates and the vent can leak.
Output Shafts / Half Shafts. The CV Joint Inner Cup that fits inside the differential output shaft holes has to be POPPED OFF the output shafts inside the differential.
There is a SMALL METAL "C" RING on the inside of the CV Joint CUP that SNAPS into a GROVE on the differential output shafts. I use a small PRY BAR to pop the CV out. Pretty easy.
SOMETIMES, getting the CV cup to POP back on the output shaft is a royal pain. I used a LONG PIECE of wood "OLD AXE HANDLE" and placed one end on the back of the Metal CV joint housing and used a rubber mallet to POP the CV Cup back onto the output shaft.
Hope this helps!!
Bill C
In an effort to help people complete this task and cover all the bases to get it done without having to REDO it because something went wrong, I would like to add some LESSONS LEARNED to this post.
I did a HEADS/CAM/ FAST-90/90mm TB mod to my 02 ZO6. As soon as we made the first pass on the car with the newly found power, the CLUTCH peddle stuck to the floor!
I knew that I had to invest in a NEW clutch that would survive to at least 500 rwhp. In goes the SPEC $1200 Dual Disk clutch assy!After reading ALL the problems/stumbling blocks/drivetrain vibration issues/ ect... ect..,, I DREADED taking on this job. I do ALL my own work. I do it all either flat on the ground or JACK STANDS. If you have the time, tools, work space, good mechanic skills and desire to save some cash; doing this your self is rewarding!
Clutch Hydraulics/Quick Disconnect fitting. As Dope stated, it can be a royal PITA! Take the time to clean the dirt and grime off the QD fitting. I spray mine with some WD-40 and allow it to soak into the joint between the male and female fitting where the "White Release Ring" is.
The AC Coupler Fitting Quick Disconnect Tool works great. You can also use a FLARE NUT Wrench that is big enough to fit around the body of the small side of the fitting. When You are ready to press the white ring to release the fitting,, PRESS THE TWO HALVES OF THE FITTINGS TOGETHER" AND THEN PRESS IN ON THE WHITE RING! It will allow the white ring to slide in easier.
Once the white ring is fully seated and its pressed all the way in, the fittings should pop apart easily once you release the pressure pushing it together.
Pilot Bearing removal and reinstallation: IMHO, this is a CRITICAL part of the install. If you damage the new bearing, you will very soon be doing this ENTIRE job AGAIN!
Here is what Ive learned after doing this on several different C5s. Rent/Borrow/ beg or Purchase a three jaw removal tool that PROPERLY grips the area behind the OLD bearing. I rented mine from Autozone and I had to slightly GRIND a relief on the small puller arms so that it would fit properly.
The damn old bearing is VERRY VERY VERY VERY tight inside the hole in the crank. Trust me on that one!
I found that carefully HEATING the end of the crank shaft (Flywheel removed) SIGNIFICANTLY aided in old bearing removal! Figure out what 150-200 degrees is and thats ALL that you need to heat it to. NO MORE than that!
I used a small propane torch but a Wagner power stripper also works.Bearing INSTALLATION! If you pound in a new pilot bearing and deform the bearing case, it could cause it to fail. I have pounded in one without heat and several with the aid of heat. I will NEVER again do it without heat. You should also put the NEW BEARING in the freezer and when the crank is properly heated, remove the bearing form the freezer and be ready to install it. The crank hole being expanded from heat and the bearing case being shrunk from freezing, will make installation easier and less bearing abuse. Mine easily tapped in with out deforming the bearing case
WHAT EVER YOU DO, I would NEVER put in a new clutch using an OLD PILOT bearing!
FLYWHEEL/DRIVE TRAIN BALANCE! GM found out that cars using a ridged Torque Tubes (like C5) can have excessive drive train Noise/Vibration/Harshness (NVH) if the engine is within normal GM engine balance spec. SO,,, They take the engine/pressure plate/flywheel through an ADDITIONAL HOT BALANCE for ALL C5 MN6/MN12 cars. For that matter the C6 and C7 MN6 cars also have this procedure done.
During that procedure, the engine is run on a high dollar vibration analysis machine and weights are added to the FLY WHEEL & Harmonic Balancer to get the rotating assembly very accurately balanced. They ADD weighted PINS to the outside of the ring of the FLY WHEEL and Dampener to balance the engine assy.
When you REMOVE the flywheel from the crank, it MUST be reinstalled back onto the crank in the same alignment relation as it came off. MARK the relationship of the crank & flywheel prior to removing. Inspect you OLD flywheel and see if it has any balance pins installed from the factory. If it doesn't, installing a ZERO BALANCED new flywheel will / should be all you need to do.
IF,,,,,,, you have balance pins in the old flywheel, you will need to get the new flywheel OFF SET BALANCED to match the off set balance of the OLD flywheel. NEVER DISGUARD your old flywheel until you have the car back together and are happy with the NVH of the drive train.
If you are replacing the flywheel with a new AFTERMARKET flywheel, it most likely will NOT have any holes on the outer ring for those pins. MOST all aftermarket flywheels come from the manufacture ZERO BALANCED! If you have factory installed weighted pins in your old OEM flywheel, and install a ZERO BALANCED, there's a high probability that you will have drive train vibrations, usually in the 2000-4000 RPM Range. You will need to take the NEW FLYWHEEL and the OLD FLYWHEEL to a machine shop and have the New Flywheel OF SET BALANCED to match the balanced of the old one!
Here is a POST that explains HOT BALANCE:
- C5 Clutch Vibration Issues: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...post1585950971
- C5 FLYWHEEL BALANCE ISSUES: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ion-twice.html
SLAVE CYLINDER SHIMMING! If you are replacing the old clutch parts with new GM clutch parts, you can probably SKIP this step. That being said, I ALWAYS Check mine! It takes 30 Min!
If you are installing aftermarket flywheels, pressure plates, slave cylinders, the SLAVE CYLINDER may not have the correct release clearance between the throw out bearing and the fingers on the pressure plate. Too MUCH clearance will NOT allow complete clutch release. Too little will cause the clutch to slip and burn up the new clutch and the throw-out bearing to burn up.
My SPEC clutch came with a throw out bearing SHIM. The clutch install instructions stated "INSTALL THE INCLUDED SHIM" behind the slave for proper engagement height. HMMMMMMMMM
I did the required Critical Measurements and my installation DID NOT need the shim! Man am I glad that I took the time to double check!!
Here is a link that explains the SHIM measurement methods:
- C5 TICK Master Cylinder FACTS: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...inder-kit.html
PLEASE take the time to check yours and insure that its correct. Now is the time to correct it if it needs to be corrected.
REMOTE BLEEDER: I can NOT tell you how many times that I said "THANK GOD" when I used the remote bleeder to bleed the slave!
IMHO, You should spend the cash for a Remote Bleeder.While you have the drivetrain OUT,, Please inspect the Torque Tube Rubber Couplers and the TT Bearings. If you have worn / cracked /damaged old couplers, ORDER and INSTALL at a minimum the actual GM Couplers!! DONT EVEN THINK about using the Auto Parts Store DORMAN Replacements!
They are TOO SOFT and will fail in short order!Differential. You should replace the OUTPUT Shaft seals in the differential at a MINIMUM.
I started recommending replacing the small VENT on top of the differential as the little rubber seal inside the vent deteriorates and the vent can leak.
Output Shafts / Half Shafts. The CV Joint Inner Cup that fits inside the differential output shaft holes has to be POPPED OFF the output shafts inside the differential.
There is a SMALL METAL "C" RING on the inside of the CV Joint CUP that SNAPS into a GROVE on the differential output shafts. I use a small PRY BAR to pop the CV out. Pretty easy.
SOMETIMES, getting the CV cup to POP back on the output shaft is a royal pain. I used a LONG PIECE of wood "OLD AXE HANDLE" and placed one end on the back of the Metal CV joint housing and used a rubber mallet to POP the CV Cup back onto the output shaft.
Hope this helps!!
Bill C
Last edited by Bill Curlee; 05-20-2016 at 03:04 PM.
05-20-2016, 04:53 PM
#83
Resident moron
Thread Starter
Good to see that you're still around Bill. Thanks for the additional information. Hard to believe I wrote this original guide around 13 years ago. Still have the car with the same clutch in it!
Dope
Dope
05-20-2016, 05:08 PM
#84
Team Owner
07-14-2016, 09:42 AM
#85
very very good info here . thank you very much . I will need to this job also this week . my biggest question is . how much can I lower the rear cradle before the engine hits the firewall ?????
07-14-2016, 12:14 PM
#86
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
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CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Just have someone with a nice bright flashlight observe the area while you lower it. There is a warning plate on the passengers side of the tunnel that provides guidance and max angle.
I ALWAYS remove my intake manifold and it makes it really easy to see where to stop!
Remember, Installing the Torque Tube as an assembly by its self back into the bell housing SIGNIFICANTLY eases the reinstallation task!!
The Trans and differential is easily bolted back on to the end of the TT...
Bill
I ALWAYS remove my intake manifold and it makes it really easy to see where to stop!
Remember, Installing the Torque Tube as an assembly by its self back into the bell housing SIGNIFICANTLY eases the reinstallation task!!
The Trans and differential is easily bolted back on to the end of the TT...
Bill
07-14-2016, 01:14 PM
#87
Resident moron
Thread Starter
Dope
07-14-2016, 01:48 PM
#89
thank you for the awesome replies . I feel more confident to tackle the job now . I have more then 20 years experience with motorcycles . turbo nitrous extensive engine work. but I find cars scary . Thx guys
07-14-2016, 02:02 PM
#90
Race Director
Member Since: Dec 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 10,426
Received 1,260 Likes
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1,055 Posts
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C5 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
I have removed my drivetrain twice and as stated above the intake wasn't even close to touching the firewall... just be cautious and keep an eye on it since it is your first time doing the job but you should be fine
09-02-2016, 03:28 PM
#92
Burning Brakes
Gents, looking at the pics in Dope's clutch doc, it looks like the TT/trans/diff/cradle schmear could be supported on just a pair of jacks. Or are three really required?
09-02-2016, 05:12 PM
#93
Damn, reading the posts from 2004, clutch jobs being done for $600? If I could find someone offering to do a clutch job (labor only) for $600, I'd be so happy. I love getting my hands dirty but I have no real space to do a clutch job.
02-26-2017, 03:13 AM
#97
Le Mans Master
I used Dope's tutorial 5 years ago and did my clutch myself on jackstands. I'm going to say thanks again because 50k miles since doing it and it's still driving great. At the time I did it, when asking around I was getting estimates in the $1000 range to do it minus parts. My incentive to doing it myself. So one day while working on it, I'm thinking how I'm going to spend the money I've saved, until my wife comes down to tell me the washing machine won't turn on. Can you see where this is going? Yes, a new washer and dryer for more than a grand. Good thing I did the clutch myself. HA!
05-23-2017, 01:21 PM
#100
Burning Brakes
quick question, hoping to do this job on my Vette in about a weeks time. is it a good idea to put a tiny bit of grease inside the pilot bearing? and if so what kind? thanks for the write up and the pics!
Last edited by red03vette; 05-23-2017 at 01:31 PM.