Innovator

I've used toluene in the past with very good results. I had a 2002 S4 that was running very high boost and was getting lots of timing pulled which was obviously counter productive. I used to use race gas dilution, but that is a PITA when you have to go to the track to get it. Toluene did the same thing and cost less because you use less. Toluene is 114 octane. No more timing pull.

Today I mixed 3 gallons of toluene to 3/4 tank of gas, and reset the timing and fuel trims to 0. That gives you about 96 octane. You can add as much as 30% toluene to your gas and get the octane wherever you want it just about. 96 octane seems sufficient however, with my light mods.

You can also use Xylene which is 117 octane and a little cheaper but harder to find readily. There is no need to add lubrication to your fuel as long as you don't exceed the 20% limit.

Let me tell you, like my Audi this engine really appreciates it! I had detonation when I shifted at high RPMs, and some detonation up top when it was hot. The detonation is totally gone, and the car pulls much harder when you goose it, and it begs to go to redline in all gears. Knock sensor activity is next to nothing now. Also, I am noticing the traction control is more active in second gear, with all other things being equal. That can only mean one thing

For the record, I pay 5.00 a gallon delivered in 55 gallon drums. This should be the norm on the east coast.

Here, check out this link..Rocket fuel

rsxmanjoe

Are you running this on your vette? Does the vette ecu compensate for higher octane and increases timing? Normally if you run a higher octane fuel, and your ecu fails to notice the change, you will run much richer and actually loose power...Also watch out for those leaded gasolines...They will destroy o2 sensors in no time

Twil1ght

Try PowerMist...

Tough products to beat - raced with them for many years.

ZFORME

Those ring structured "lene" chemicals are liquid cancer dude. Be careful please. Your will be breathing that going in and probably something else worse coming out the tailpipe if it is rich. To remove that from your home would cost a fortune in Haz Waste disposal.
We used moth ***** (napthalene) growing up. Just be careful cause if that gets loose you won't have enough resources to cover the cleanup costs associated with remediation.

Innovator

I use an electric pump to transfer it to my gas tank so there is little vapor loss. I always have good ventilation at the time. Without it, it's pretty potent smelling. But it's not as bad as benzene, and I breathed in that sh*t for years when I painted homes.. But I don't get all 'chicken little' about it. I can add the hazzards of using toluene to all the other crap I breath in working on cars all day. Just have good ventilation and try not to get any on your hands or were gloves and a respirator if you are really paranoid about it..

I own a gas station, so I know what you mean by remediation costs. I spent 150,000 dollars 5 years ago to clean up a leaking 4000 gallon tank of diesel . But, it's hard to knock over a 55 gallon drum, and you don't have it long enough for the drum to start leaking

Mallory

Xylene is only hard to find if you live in the middle of nowhere.
Home Depot, Lowes, and just about any Paint store will have a massive stock of the stuff.

Great link to another site that has all the math you ever wanted to figure out how much to get the right octane you want. LINK

E

ZFORME

If you want to play you have to pay! Enjoy! Let me know how the car runs with the chemical cocktail.

Innovator

5 gallons per tank and she's damn happy!! No detonation or timing pull, even at 100 degrees

weendoggy

Like they say, "if it smells good, it's bad for you".

OilFieldGuy

Seems like alot of trouble for some added HP. I could see doing the octane bit for a track outing but day in and day out I'd get sick of mixing fuel cocktails.

Why not build a higher HP/TQ motor on pump gas and keep it simple "hazard-free"?

Of course I'm lazy like that

rsxmanjoe

Well with higher octane gas, you can make 50+whp by running higher boost levels and increasing timing.....Higher octane burns slower thus allowing timing to be advanced greatly - usually anywhere from 5-12 degrees....Also you can add more boost since lower EGT's equal lower cylinder pressures and less chance of detonation...

The best part is race gas is fairly inexpensive....Usually youll pay 8-10 a gallon for c16.....

Its sort of a pain, but MUCH cheaper than doing it on pump gas

Twil1ght

Use EXTREME caution here. Electric pumps and items like tolulene can lead to a large fireballish disaster.

PowerMad

Thanks for sharing this information.

dave

Innovator

Hardtop01

I agree, if its not explosion proof. A safer way to do it is with a pneumatic transfer pump. I have used these many times with gasoline, oil, and diesel tanks.

Bruce

J-Rod

Unless you need more octane (like if you live in Ca with 91 octane you won't benefit from higher octane). Octane is a the resitance to detonation. So, if you aren't pre-detonating, you don't need more octane.... Now, if you run a boosted application (like a Grand National), or you run a ton of compression, or like I said, you have poor quality gas, you can benefit from Toleuene/Xylene. A couple of things on this.

1. Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon (C7H8). i.e. it contains only hydrogen and carbon atoms. It belongs to a particular category of hydrocarbons called aromatic hydrocarbons. Complete combustion of toluene yields CO2 and H2O. This fact ensures that the entire emission control system such as the catalyst and oxygen sensor of your car is unaffected. There are no metallic compounds (lead, magnesium etc), no nitro compounds and no oxygen atoms in toluene. It is made up of exactly the same ingredients as ordinary gasoline. In fact it is one of the main ingredients of gasoline.

2. Toluene has a RON octane rating of 121 and a MON rating of 107, leading to a (R+M)/2 rating of 114. (R+M)/2 is how ordinary fuels are rated in the US. Note that toluene has a sensitivity rating of 121-107=14. This compares favorably with alcohols which have sensitivities in the 20-30 range. The more sensitive a fuel is the more its performance degrades under load. Toluene's low sensitivity means that it is an excellent fuel for a heavily loaded engine.

3. Toluene is denser than ordinary gasoline (0.87 g/mL vs. 0.72-0.74) and contains more energy per unit volume. Thus combustion of toluene leads to more energy being liberated and thus more power generated. This is in contrast to oxygenated octane boosters like ethanol or MTBE which contain less energy per unit volume compared to gasoline. The higher heating value of toluene also means that the exhaust gases contain more kinetic energy, which in turn means that there is more energy to drive turbocharger vanes. In practical terms this is experienced as a faster onset of turbo boost.


Again, its a cost benefit analysis. Super 104 is sold at my local drag strip @ the pump for $4.75/gallon. I can order a drum of fuel for myself even cheaper. Of course, I can mix up boosters of various sorts to. I prefer race gas followed by Toluene/Xylene. But, thats just me. Use what works for you, and what you are happy with. I just like for folks to have all the information they need to make decisions.


Also, unless you are seeing KR, you won't see a HP increase from increased octane. Octane is the resistance to detonantion. You actually want your fuel to burn, you just don't want it burning early (pre-ignition). As for Toulene or Xylene being particularly harmful to your engine. I would disagree with this.

Q: Will toluene damage my engine or other parts of my car?

A: A 5 or 10% increase in the aromatic content of gas will most likely be well within the refining specifications of gasoline defined by ASTM D4814, which specify an aromatic content of between 20% and 45%. What this means is that if the 92 octane gas that you started off with had an aromatic content of say 30% and you increased it by 10% to 40% you would still be left with a mix that meets the industry definition of gasoline. So the above question would amount to: "Will gasoline damage my engine or other parts of my car?"

Even in the unlikely event that the 92 octane gas has a aromatic content of 45% the resulting mix would still be within the bounds of gasoline sold in other countries.


Now, Xylene tends to be a bit "dry" so, long term exposure could possibly affect some seal materials which is why some folks add a bit of lubricant (like MMO) to Xylene.

Innovator

[QUOTE=J-Rod]Unless you need more octane (like if you live in Ca with 91 octane you won't benefit from higher octane). So, if you aren't pre-detonating, you don't need more octane.... QUOTE]

I have to disagree with this point. You may not need more octane, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be better off with it. Face it, you really don't know how much octane is in the gas you're using, or what they put in it to achieve that rating. What they use to boost the octane can be greatly effected by temperature and humidity. Such is not the case with a pure hydrocarbon .

As long as the ECU/knock sensor detects detonation, it will either pull timing advance, or prevent the timing from becoming more advanced. Both of which will decrease HP/TQ.

My engine only seems to audibly detonate between shifts, as I hit the gas right after the shift when I'm near redline. Since using the Toluene in my Z, this has been practically eliminated with only 2.5 gallons per tank. I can add 5 gallons with better results, I'm certain. I think my Vararam intake is partially to blame for this detonation. There is no doubt that it likes the higher rpms better now using Toluene. It pulls more willingly to redline, even at 100 degrees out.

Light detonation is seldom heard over the sound of our exhaust. However, the ECU will hear it, and it may not pull timing if it's light, but it will prevent it from going as far advanced as it's pre-programmed window will allow. I have much experiance with this dyno tuning my S4. If you can hear the detonation, especially at high RPM, it's very destructive at that point. Toluene will reduce or prevent it altogether.

Also, if you are running a little lean, the Toluene will correct this because it is a pure hyrocarbon with no fillers. It will produce a slightly richer mixture which will be visibly evident in you LTFT.

Honestly, there is no mechanical down side to using Toluene or Xylene. Aside from the cost and the vapors, it's can only be a good thing, more so when we have near 11:1 compression and the ambient temp is high.


Use it in a well ventilated area, and be happy

Innovator

I have to disagree with this point. You may not need more octane, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be better off with it. Face it, you really don't know how much octane is in the gas you're using, or what they put in it to achieve that rating. What they use to boost the octane can be greatly effected by temperature and humidity. Such is not the case with a pure hydrocarbon .

As long as the ECU/knock sensor detects detonation, it will either pull timing advance, or prevent the timing from becoming more advanced. Both of which will decrease HP/TQ.

My engine only seems to audibly detonate between shifts, as I hit the gas right after the shift when I'm near redline. Since using the Toluene in my Z, this has been practically eliminated with only 2.5 gallons per tank. I can add 5 gallons with better results, I'm certain. I think my Vararam intake is partially to blame for this detonation. There is no doubt that it likes the higher rpms better now using Toluene. It pulls more willingly to redline, even at 100 degrees out.

Light detonation is seldom heard over the sound of our exhaust. However, the ECU will hear it, and it may not pull timing if it's light, but it will prevent it from going as far advanced as it's pre-programmed window will allow. I have much experiance with this dyno tuning my S4. If you can hear the detonation, especially at high RPM, it's very destructive at that point. Toluene will reduce or prevent it altogether.

Also, if you are running a little lean, the Toluene will correct this because it is a pure hyrocarbon with no fillers. It will produce a slightly richer mixture which will be visibly evident in you LTFT.

Honestly, there is no mechanical down side to using Toluene or Xylene. Aside from the cost and the vapors, it's can only be a good thing, more so when we have near 11:1 compression and the ambient temp is high.


Use it in a well ventilated area, and be happy

f430killer

Im heading down to the local sherwin williams next week after I do my heads cam, and LT's. The stg. 2 cyl heads Ill be using are 10.7:1.

My Z right now does the same thing you mentioned when upshifting, I dont know if it is torque management or serious knock retard. Probably a combo of the two or just the latter. Its not even hot here, 60 at the most...

Ive done extensive research here and Ive read that the mixture of toulene shouldnt exceed %20. I only run 8 gallons of gas at any given time taking weight into consideration. I only want to raise my octane maybe 2 points, all they got here is 91. Would 1 gallon per 8 be sufficient?

ZFORME

http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ohb/HESIS/toluene.htm
http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html