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Old 02-05-2008, 02:48 PM   #1
BCAM
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Default Service ABS System, Service Traction Control System

I realize that this has been brought up a number of times.
The search also showed that this was usually an electrical malfunction.

My story:
2002 Z06 Stock save 1 c6z06 shifter
Conditions: *Roads wet*, overcast out

Taking a friend for a ride and I entered a slow corner/chicane in first gear and gave it about 50% throttle. The tail hopped and the subject line appeared on the information screen on the dash. I immediately let off and pulled over, restarted, etc. The car still drives and accelerates normally. However, if I cause a condition that would normally initiate the traction control (80% - 100% throttle/1st or 2nd gear), the rear end responds with quite a bit of wheel hop.

I am new to the Corvette community (over from Subaru (STI)), and am not yet entirely familiar with the beast. The problem seems mechanical. What happens when this error comes on? Is the traction control malfunctioning or is it in a limp mode (if you will)? Is it possible that the conditions of the road and the wheel hop confused the traction/abs systems and it simply needs to be reset?

Please advise, thanks guys!
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Old 02-05-2008, 03:53 PM   #2
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search EBCM.

I hope it is something else!
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:00 PM   #3
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I had the same message, I would check the ground. It fixed my problem.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:32 PM   #4
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Interesting, I am here because a few days ago I was heading to work in my 2002 Z06 with only a shifter mod and I hit a good puddle with the right front tire.

Nothing major, and in fact it is a spot I frequent and hit that puddle a lot. It is one of those that startles you because it makes a lot of noise and pulls the steering wheel just a little.

I noticed the computer dinging at me and ABS was on the DIC.

I figured the ABS had activated as it does in low traction instances like railroad tracks and other similar circumstances.

But it kept dinging and flashing messages.

Turns out it wants me to service the ABS, Active Handling and Traction Control.

It is insistent about this. I hoped it would go away on its own, but it hasn't.

I couldn't care less about TC and AH as I turn them off each time I get in the car, but ABS is important as I don't want to flat spot a set of $1,000 tires.

Plus, I'm sure it decreases the value when you go to sell the car if it is setting off alarms every time you get in or out of the vehicle.

So I'm hoping that with all of them going at once it might be some kind of fuse?

Any thoughts from those who have been here before?

TIA,
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:32 PM   #5
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Guys .... if you're getting SERVICE ABS/AH/TC messages on the DIC ... then guess what ..... SERVICE IS NEEDED.

Search for posts by trussme or Bill Curlee with the keyword "EBCM" .... there are hundreds of posts on this issue.

Display the DTC codes on your DIC, you can/should search on thoose also. To display the codes, follow these instructions ...

http://www.corvetteforum.com/techtip...D=26&TopicID=1


And to the new owner who says he turns off his TC and AH .... you might want to reconsider that for street driving, they are great safety features in a car with high horsepower and the potential for the car to "get away" from you, especially at times such as wet roads, etc. Chevy put them on the car for a reason, sure, if you are on a race track, turning them off may be fine (though that's why there is a COMPETITION MODE - even at the track AH is a cool feature) but for street driving I recommend you leave the systems on. Search and you will find many threads where people say that the systems saved their azz ...

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Old 02-05-2008, 10:26 PM   #6
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check for a code in the DIC.

I have an issues very similar, finally got a code for the steering wheel position sensor failed.

I'll be tackeling this one as soon as I sort other issues out.

Mine will activate for no reason at all. I just shut it off now.
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:51 PM   #7
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I will check for the code tomorrow and post it. I didn't think this followed the "100s" of posts on this issue b/c most of the posts described a situation that occurred during normal driving. This occurred during slightly aggressive driving followed by wheel hop.

As to the service light meaning it wants to be "SERVICED", what could be more obvious? Seriously, I know that but I am also not going to take my car to a dealership. I'm the mechanic for my car (unless the problem really gets out of my hands lol) and I'm here searching for answers and advice...

Thanks again guys
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCAM View Post
I will check for the code tomorrow and post it. I didn't think this followed the "100s" of posts on this issue b/c most of the posts described a situation that occurred during normal driving. This occurred during slightly aggressive driving followed by wheel hop.

As to the service light meaning it wants to be "SERVICED", what could be more obvious? Seriously, I know that but I am also not going to take my car to a dealership. I'm the mechanic and I'm here searching for answers...

Thanks again guys
The EBCM posts codes when it experiences problems, usually either with its sensors, or internally, or with the BPMV. Your driving style, whether aggressive or normal, had no bearing on the EBCM throwing codes. The wheel hop MIGHT have caused a bad connection to a rear wheel speed sensor to worsen, but a bad pothole probably would have done the same.

The information posted in those 100's of other threads will apply to the DTC codes you find in the EBCM. Driving style is, again, immaterial. There are many many Z06 owners who drive their cars very aggressively at drag strips and road courses and don't get the SERVICE warnings.

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Old 02-06-2008, 07:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by jolitaly View Post
I had the same message, I would check the ground. It fixed my problem.
What ground?

Ed
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:57 AM   #10
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Look down.......
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:31 AM   #11
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or search in the C5 technical area for Electrical issues.

there are I believe 12 or 13 ground locations on our tupperware cars that are layed out nicely from some real genious members.

Check the grounds first before sending your car off to GM Service where they will replace a Control Module but not repair the ground connection which possibly could be causing the problem.

Also, "KNOW" that the battery is fully charged and not partially drained and the battery terminal connections are secure. A weak Battery will cause strange things, maybe not what you are seeing but strange non the less.

Start with easy FREE stuff.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackZ06 View Post
The EBCM posts codes when it experiences problems, usually either with its sensors, or internally, or with the BPMV. Your driving style, whether aggressive or normal, had no bearing on the EBCM throwing codes. The wheel hop MIGHT have caused a bad connection to a rear wheel speed sensor to worsen, but a bad pothole probably would have done the same.

The information posted in those 100's of other threads will apply to the DTC codes you find in the EBCM. Driving style is, again, immaterial. There are many many Z06 owners who drive their cars very aggressively at drag strips and road courses and don't get the SERVICE warnings.

I disagree with your assessment regardless of the 100s or 1000s of posts. (BTW if there are 100s of posts on this shouldn't there be one definitive argument and not 100s? Perhaps a sticky?) The fact is, the EBCM throwing the code directly corresponded to the event on the street. They occurred at the exact same moment and logic would deduce that they are related.

As I stated before, when I pull the codes I will post them
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCAM View Post
I disagree with your assessment regardless of the 100s or 1000s of posts. (BTW if there are 100s of posts on this shouldn't there be one definitive argument and not 100s? Perhaps a sticky?) The fact is, the EBCM throwing the code directly corresponded to the event on the street. They occurred at the exact same moment and logic would deduce that they are related.

As I stated before, when I pull the codes I will post them
You can disagree with my assessment all you want ... but you might want to "tone down" your attitude .... I have fixed problems like this on my car several times, and I, along with users such as Bill Curlee, trussme, DeeGee, and many others, have spent countless hours helping many other people fix problems with the electronic brake control system.

One of the reasons there is no sticky is often, even with the codes, the source of the problem can be hard to track down. Several years ago, for example, it was recognized that a certain vendor's stainless steel brake lines were causing wheel speed sensor problems .... it took a while to track that one down .... the GM tech line figured it out and users like vetterdstr spread the word. Also the EBCM performs more functions than the User Manual would lead you to understand. Functions such as Dynamic Rear Proportioning and Rear Stability Control are also performed, along with Active Handling, Traction Control, and ABS. For the EBCM to perform all of these functions requires complex interactions between computers such as the PCM and the EBCM, and sensors such as the Steering Wheel Position Sensor, and then the EBCM controls the BPMV using relays to vary hydraulic pressure in the different brake lines ....

There are users on here who have forgotten more than I will ever know about a C5. Evil-Twin is a good example, he's a retired GM engineer who spent years working on the C5, from initial design, through testing of prototype vehicles, to working in the field once production cars were delivered. I would recommend you be cautious in who you challenge on this forum ....

Now let's take your last paragraph in your original post and see if we can answer your questions ....

I am new to the Corvette community (over from Subaru (STI)), and am not yet entirely familiar with the beast. The problem seems mechanical. (Most likely not. The only "mechanical" part of the system is the BPMV, which is the pump that can alter hydraulic pressure in individual brake lines. If the pump has failed, the EBCM will have a DTC set to indicate that.) What happens when this error comes on? Is the traction control malfunctioning or is it in a limp mode (if you will)? (When a SERVICE XXXX message is displayed, that function is disabled until the next ignition cycle. At the initiation of the next ignition cycle the EBCM sets all DTC codes to H status and runs its internal diagnostic test. If the test fails, the SERVICE XXXX message is again displayed and that function is disabled for the rest of that ignition cycle) Is it possible that the conditions of the road and the wheel hop confused the traction/abs systems and it simply needs to be reset? (It resets itself at every START of the engine .... the system only gets "confused" when an internal diagnostic test fails, or it sees either no data from certain sensors, or data that appears to be invalid)

Post the codes and various people on the forum will help you figure out the problem.


Last edited by BlackZ06; 02-06-2008 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:16 AM   #14
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Disagreeing with your assessment and showing attitude are not related in any way. Furthermore, what you can deduce through text is very very very limited. Also, please explain to me why I cannot challenge your assessment? I don't know who you are as much as you have no idea who I am. I'm here for answers, not to be impressed by the fact that you have been here since 2000, are a senior member, and apparently have done some reading/turned a wrench on a car. I appreciate the advice but lose the "i'm the expert big brother here."

Quote:
I am new to the Corvette community (over from Subaru (STI)), and am not yet entirely familiar with the beast. The problem seems mechanical. (Most likely not. The only "mechanical" part of the system is the BPMV, which is the pump that can alter hydraulic pressure in individual brake lines. If the pump has failed, the EBCM will have a DTC set to indicate that.) What happens when this error comes on? Is the traction control malfunctioning or is it in a limp mode (if you will)? (When a SERVICE XXXX message is displayed, that function is disabled until the next ignition cycle. At the initiation of the next ignition cycle the EBCM sets all DTC codes to H status and runs its internal diagnostic test. If the test fails, the SERVICE XXXX message is again displayed and that function is disabled for the rest of that ignition cycle) Is it possible that the conditions of the road and the wheel hop confused the traction/abs systems and it simply needs to be reset? (It resets itself at every START of the engine .... the system only gets "confused" when an internal diagnostic test fails, or it sees either no data from certain sensors, or data that appears to be invalid)
Awesome response, I appreciate it.
This is exactly what I was looking for:
Quote:
(When a SERVICE XXXX message is displayed, that function is disabled until the next ignition cycle. At the initiation of the next ignition cycle the EBCM sets all DTC codes to H status and runs its internal diagnostic test. If the test fails, the SERVICE XXXX message is again displayed and that function is disabled for the rest of that ignition cycle)

Last edited by BCAM; 02-06-2008 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCAM View Post
Disagreeing with your assessment and showing attitude are not related in any way. Furthermore, what you can deduce through text is very very very limited. Also, please explain to me why I cannot challenge your assessment? I don't know who you are as much as you have no idea who I am. I'm here for answers, not to be impressed by the fact that you have been here since 2000, are a senior member, and apparently have done some reading/turned a wrench on a car. I appreciate the advice but lose the "i'm the expert big brother here."



Awesome response, I appreciate it.
OK ....
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:55 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by SweetZO6 View Post
What ground?

Ed
The ground that is connected to the front driver's side frame rail. It is the ground that has an eyelet connector that is attached to a 1" black box connector. Inside the black box can accumulate debris and water which can cause it to corrode. Open up the connector take a wire brush some WD-40 and clean the connectors. Also, check the connection to the frame rail make sure the connector and the frame rail are completely clean. GL
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:12 AM   #17
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The ground that is connected to the front driver's side frame rail. It is the ground that has an eyelet connector that is attached to a 1" black box connector. Inside the black box can accumulate debris and water which can cause it to corrode. Open up the connector take a wire brush some WD-40 and clean the connectors. Also, check the connection to the frame rail make sure the connector and the frame rail are completely clean. GL
Great info....THANKS! The only time I had the same issue with my Z was after it sat in the rain all night. The next morning a lot of wierd stuff happened but the Z ran great.

ED
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:10 PM   #18
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Well this morning the DIC showed no indication of the problem existing/persisting. This presents two schools of thought. There is a loose electrical connection and the problem will reoccur. Or...The problem was directly related to the conditions and the wheel hop that occurred simultaneously with the code appearing on the DIC. Time will tell... Nevertheless, I will still be checking the related electrical connections.

Thanks for the responses guys
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCAM View Post
Well this morning the DIC showed no indication of the problem existing/persisting. This presents two schools of thought. There is a loose electrical connection and the problem will reoccur. Or...The problem was directly related to the conditions and the wheel hop that occurred simultaneously with the code appearing on the DIC. Time will tell... Nevertheless, I will still be checking the related electrical connections.

Thanks for the responses guys
I think the problem will come and go every 100 engine start up cycles. If the problem comes back check the grounds.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCAM View Post
Well this morning the DIC showed no indication of the problem existing/persisting. This presents two schools of thought. There is a loose electrical connection and the problem will reoccur. Or...The problem was directly related to the conditions and the wheel hop that occurred simultaneously with the code appearing on the DIC. Time will tell... Nevertheless, I will still be checking the related electrical connections.

Thanks for the responses guys
It took several weeks for my car to finally give me a code.

it would hit the active handeling several times a night. Did this for over a month, then it finally went nuts doing it over and over again. I turned it off, then the DIC said active handeling and service vehicle soon over and over again, I had to hit reset for it to go away. then a code was set.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:36 PM
 
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