Eric Reeves

These brakes are rated for the life of the car when used for street duty only. Name just ONE brake system that provides the same. I know of none. If I had the cash to throw out for brakes this would be it for me too since I only track my car 2-3 times a year. It would be 20yrs before I had to do anything at least. With my luck, I wouldn't be here anyway.

SteveDoten

Place this post in the RR forum

I have zero experience with ZR1, besides complete exhaust system

Pumba

The following rotor is from Hardbar's web site. It is a 12.81 inch iron rotor with an aluminum hat - http://hardbarusa.com/hardbar/produc...roducts_id=154

Cost: $950

It won't last 20% of the life of a ceramic rotor - $950 x 5 = $4,750 versus $1,300.

doje

His "order of magnitude" comment was in reference to wear - not price. Obviously price is not the main concern here.

Pumba

Correct, the wear reported by Spring Mountain is an order of magnitude better than what they have been experience with iron brake systems.

63Corvette

So..............why not just add the carbon/ceramic ROTORS to my Stoptech BBK?

RC45

The rotors are cheaper than the hat + rotor replacement. Figure half of that.

Have you done the install yet?

Are the ZR1 calipers similar to the Z06 calipers or totally new castings? I am interested in the perfmance gains of the lighter rotating mass of the rotors out front.

007Duc

I believe the casting is different then the C6Z06 caliper even though it is also a six piston design and the mount points are the same. I got a chance to look at them close at a dealership showroom and compare. The Grand Sport calipers are the same as Z06 calipers I believe. Sounds cool, even though it does have a massive initial price tag. If I had unlimited funds I'd probably do it.

Keep this in mind though, the performance on the street WILL BE WORSE! That's not to say they wont work. Don't really need to bang your head against the front windshield on the street. Carbon Ceramic Rotors don't start working until they heat up significantly. You will most likely never get these in their temperature operating range on the street. I recall someone here mentioned that he drove a ZR1 on the track and attested to the brakes never fading the more he pounded on them at a track. This is why. The Carbon Ceramic rotors are designed to operate at at super high temps. I suppose you will probably feel better suspension dynamics and handling improvements with the lighter rotating weight also.

Like I mentioned, if I had the money, which I most likely never will, I'd be willing to make these compromises. If anyone has a ton of cash they just absolutely cannot find anything to do with I'd be happy to relieve them of that stress.

63Corvette

Could be......................BUT, I think you may be confusing Carbon/Carbon brakes (carbon pads and carbon discs) with carbon ceramic (street) brakes. The full carbon brakes are RACE brakes, operate at very high temperatures, and degrade equally from both rotor and pad. The street carbon/ceramic brakes such as OEM on ZR1 and GT-3 are very light, which is an advantage, but the rotor does not degrade, just the pad. According to Team Oreca, a set of (4) carbon rotors for their Viper is, um.......$50,000!

Pumba

I received my shipment from the GM dealer last Thursday. I repacked the calipers and sent them to The Powdercoater.com - Mike so he could change their color from baby blue to TORCH RED. Mike said it will be in early June before he will have them done.

In the mean time, I am painting the new C6 knuckles and the steel hat section of the rear rotors. After Mike returns my calipers, I will take a complete set of pictures and weigh all the parts before I start the installation.

RC45

I am interested in the results. I might like to try incorporate the carbon rotors into my TTU build just for the hell of it

KrispyZ06

Cool stuff man!

NORTY

I checked into utilizing the ZR1 brakes on my 2006 Z06. It's a massive undertaking. Here's why~
The ZR1 brake sensors are mated with a BOSCH computer with regards to AH and TC. (Probably ABS too but not sure. )

My car came with DELPHI computer for AH & TC. The ZR1 brakes are not compatible with my car.

Also, the rotational mass advantage of the CC rotors is lost when you install larger wheels. This has been proven by similar lap times for both regular and carbon Z06's.

Now, if an aftermarketer came out with a set of CC rotors and pads for my car, where I could still utilize my stock wheels & calipers...

doje

One thing to consider though is that the factory ZR1 wheels which are on the Carbon Z06 are rediculously heavy. If you had light weight forged wheels, the increased rotational mass would not be as big an issue. Now, the compatibility issue is a whole different problem. Or is it?

Pumba

Let me give you some data to ponder:


1) The ZR1 Michelin tires are run-flats. That adds 18 lbs to the rotational mass of the ZR1. I am not running run-flats.

2) The ZR1 ceramic front rotors weigh on my bathroom scale - 12.5 lbs. The C6 Z06 front rotors weigh in the area of 27 lbs. Less rotational mass.

3) I am running HRE three piece wheels. These are lighter than the factory ZR1 wheels. Less rotational mass.


I don't know if you have ever compared the pad area of a C6 ZR1 pad versus the C5 or C6 Z06 pads, but the differrence is startling.

-

RC45

Are the ZR! pads 1 piece pads?

What size wheel are you running?

My Hardbar rotors are 19lbs, so there is still 7lbs to save with the carbon rotors. But then again I only need an 18" wheel up front that weighs 22lb. What do your HRE fronts weigh?

What is the word on how quick they get up tot operatin gtemp? Quicker than the iron rotors?

OKsweetrides

I wasn't aware that braking deflection was that a big of a concern, seeing as the C6 knuckles are physically are a tiny bit larger than C5 in certain areas and yet still interchangeable; which tells me that the beefing up wasn't that big of a deal; but all bets are off if they changed the metallurgy (which I don't know). However, there are plenty of C5's and C6's that are running brakes that are superior the ZR1 brakes. Strange, I've seen a couple 430Scud's swap out to aftermarket kits to get better performance and keep their ceramics on the side.

For a street car, these ZR1 brakes would be a really cool thing and be the holy grail for ultimate Vette bling. Great performance and that cachet of uniqueness.

Norty,

I was talking with a PFC engineer at PRI back in December, and I brought up the topic of converting iron to carbon ceramics, IIRC his observations were that while dimensionally possible; in racing use the energy absorbed by the cc rotor and the accompanying pads can cause dangerous loads on the pistons and calipers if not designed from the get go.

Pumba

The C6 ZR1 pads are one-piece. I will post pictures of all the pieces once I have my calipers back from Mike at ThePowdercoater.com, and I can complete my conversion.


I am running the following wheels sizes:

Front: 19 x 10 inches, with 285/30R19 Michelin PS2 tires

Rear: 20 x 12 inches, with 325/25R20 Michelin PS2 tires


These are my street tires and wheels. The guys are CC Wheels tell me that they have 18 inch wheels that will clear the ZR1 brakes.

Pumba

According to Tadge Juechter, the Corvette Chief Engineer, the Corvette Development team discovered the front knuckle deflection during the developmenet of the ZR1 brakes. Seeing that they have money to throw away, they decided to stiffen the knuckles.

Now I am also sure that there are any number of C5 and C6 Corvette racers who have instrumented their front knuckles and determined that the Corvette Development team's data is in error.

In addition, I am certain that these same individuals have equipped a Corvette with ZR1 brakes, properly bedded them, put racing tires on the test mule, and then done back-to-back braking tests versus their superior braking system race cars.

I anxiously await the test data.

Chris_B

F430 owners are not converting to iron for better performance (although they can theoretically obtain more braking torque, but they would gain a LOT of unsprung weight). They have found that on the track they oxidize the carbon-ceramic discs to the point that they need replacement. At around $2700 each, most have decided that using up $400 iron discs makes for a more enjoyable outing. They just bolt the CCM's back on when it comes time to sell the car. They type of CCM disc that the Scud uses (same as the ZR1), cannot be resurfaced.

Let's not confuse carbon-carbon (used in racing) and carbon-ceramic (road car brakes). While there are some similarities in the first few production phases, the application of each is quite a bit different.

Chris