apex26

Question for you track guys: I just bought a 2003 Z06, 13k miles, which really stung to buy cause I didn't get a car loan. So, I want to take it to Watkins Glen for track days, but do the minimum this year-- safely. That's an old track with no runoff in a couple of spots, so good brakes are a must. The car came with older street tires on chrome wheels, and the original wheels in boxes. I plan on buying a good street tire for the track and using the Z06 wheels. What's the minimum I can get away with at the Glen? I've only done 2 track days, a long time ago. Will the stock brakes go away at the Glen? Please be specific--like what brand, etc brake pads. Thanks!

CHJ In Virginia

Check out the AutoX and Road Racing section of the forum. There is MUCH good information there for the beginner. For starters you need to do the following prior to your first track day at the Glen.
Change brake fluid to high temp variety - Motul or ATE Blue
For a beginner the stock Z06 pads are a good compromise - make sure that you have at least 50% thickness remaining.
Fresh tires - not sticky race rubber - just a good quality warm weather street tire.
With the age of the car even with the low miles, I would recommend a total fluid change with synthetics - trans, diff, engine & clutch prior to tracking the car.
I ran two events at the Glen when I was starting with this configuration and had no problems with brake fade. As you get faster, cooling ducts, SS lines and higher temp pads like Carboteks or Hawks will be necessary.

GeorgeZNJ

Dude, go and have some fun. (my avatar pic is at the Glen in the rain) I've run the Glen at least 30-35 times and I use stock calipers with Hawk DTC 70's on the front and DTC 60's on the rear. My brake pads have never faded, I've never boiled the brakes. For those who think that well, maybe I drive slow, well I run advanced/intructor and run the car hard, hard enough go through tires quite quickly. As far as the runnoff areas, well I spun off the track sideways in the bus stop pea gravel,(no longer there) and did 2-360's after flag station 15 (T-9?). Don't think about the runoff area, concentrate on the track. Drive at your own pace, its a great track. I think its one of the best tracks in the US. You'll be fine.

apex26

Want to thank you guys so much. Theres so much out there its hard to judge. Taking in the comment on how old these cars are, I ordered new stainless flex lines, and ATE blue fluid. The Glen is a great track, but I took my ERA Cobra there and going down into the boot you are WOT straight at an armco/tire wall, then make about a 110 degree left--my instructor made me go right to the edge, and he Cobra petal eventually went all the way to the floor, brake scoops and all. Just want worry free fun and you guys have been very helpful.

Z06TWT

Safty first. In addition to fluids and pads your next investment should be a harness bar and belts....which may require a seat change.

Supercharged111

I'm having a difficult time swallowing that one. If the car gets biffed and bends the bar, the belts go loose. Seems to me a full cage with belts are the only real answer to safety. If you want to hold yourself in the seat better, try the bolster mod. It's free, quick, easy, and reversible.

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f117/...upport-108924/

In addition to that, I bought a torso harness for like $30 shipped.

http://www.amazon.com/G-Force-4290BK.../dp/B0059J984Q

I hear there's a washer mod to keep the back of the seat from flopping around, but keep forgetting to research it. So for $30 you're not worrying about flying out of your seat and can better concentrate on driving. Do that, pads, and all fluids as suggested and have a good time. One more thing if you're so inclined is to remove the radiator and spray it and the AC condenser out and refill your cooling system with about 33% coolant and a bottle of water wetter.

FRC Z51

Sorry but I don't see how this makes much sense. The harness bar essentially attaches to the BASE of the factory rollover hoop, which is quite substantial. If you are in a situation where the factory rollover hoop has been compromised that much, to where the base of the rollover hoop is no longer useable for the harness bar to stay attached correctly, you have much bigger problems on your hands.

I do agree though that a full cage is truly the best way to go, just don't go advising people to NOT install other safety devices simply because there is a one-in-a-(thousand?) chance of it not working correctly.

Supercharged111

I just can't see a harness bar that uses 2 pre-existing bolts as being substantial enough to provide an increase in safety. The stresses that a harness bar puts on those fasteners is totally different than how the factory does and I'm just not convinced that these aftermarket companies have put enough thought into their bars. The harness bar puts so much more force on the bolt than the factory 3 point belts ever could when it acts as a lever arm in a collision. To add to it, I saw a guy bring his Subie to the track and he had a Scroth 4 point harness. It wasn't NASA legal and IMO it shouldn't have been anything legal, at least not the way it was installed. You could bend the mounting bracket for the harness just by tugging the belt by hand. It was obviously a universal belt, but some forum vendor peddled it as a direct install kit for a Subaru and the forces exerted on the mount were perpendicular to what they should have been. That's why I don't buy into the marketing hype because some of these guys are out to make a buck and that's it, catering only to the waxers and hard parkers. Now if you could show some evidence of some Corvette specific harness bars that aren't $600+ and are worth a damn, I'm all ears. Don't get the idea that this is a pissing contest, because that's not my intent, despite some strong sentiments above. I really don't want to derail the OP's thread but I feel this information is quite relevant for him to make an informed decision.

Z06TWT

IMHO there is no downside to a harness bar and belts and a big upside. I have been to dozens of track day events and it is obvious that the faster the group the more likely it is you will see 5/6 point belts (with harness bars and cages). As someone who spun at 120mph at RA and hit the wall, I can tell you that those 5 point belts really work!

Z06TWT

Check out http://hardbarusa.com and if you Goggle C5 harness bar you will find reputable vendors like Sparco, Vetteworks, Brey Kraus and others selling bars that do work. Granted ,if you totally mangle the car then all bets are off. As an aside, I learned a lot about tracking a corvette from Henry Gilbert (Gilbert Racing and Sports Car Driving Experience) and all of his corvettes (DE only cars) have harness bars and 5 point belts. Best of luck with your new hobby/car.

newbs49

apex26

Where are you located in New York. Also do you know with which
club you'll be running with...

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

I would go with new fluid a DOT 4 Brembo LCF 600 or Motul RBF 600 and changes your pads to Carbotech XP10 front and XP8 rear. I can help you out with the full package give me a call at 216-780-8825.

Brembo LCF600

LCF600 is the newest brake fluid on the market. Excellent choice for track use. Proven low compressibility. It gives a firmer pedal feel then most other brands.

Dry: 316°C (601°F)
Wet: 204°C (399°F)

16.9oz/ .53 quarts
.50 Liter/ 500ml

$19.95

MOTUL RBF600

The world's best selling brake fluid. Developed for all forms and levels of racing, the RBF600 is one of the most popular fluid's on the market today.

Dry: 312°C (594°F)
Wet: 216°C (421°F)

16.9oz/ .53 quarts
.50 Liter/ 500ml

$22.50


Carbotech XP10 $212 Carbotech XP8 $166 Less 5%forum pricing.

63Corvette

I concur

JeremyGSU

My Sparco harness bar also has two supporting bars that mount to the rear seat mount as additional support.

I didn't really buy my harness bar as added "safety". I just wanted to be able to wear harnesses with my race seat.

Not everyone has a full race car. My car is a street/track car. Putting a cage in it wouldn't make much sense in that case. I'm still running full interior and drive it around on the street.

Socko

I read a bunch last year about this as I took my 03 z06 to the track for the first time last fall. I had gone to the track 2 times before this in my previous car. So pretty much a noob, but i had some expectations of what I should be capable of.

I ran my car more or less as i bought it, no idea if the pads are original or proper z06 pads or not, but they were definitely not adequate for the track. I had replaced the front rotors because the ones that came on the car had a serious wear lip, i would have used them on the street for a long time, but not the track. The car had 31k on it so i assume both may have been original or the pads may have been replaced once. They stopped the car fine every time, but if I started trying to put any real heat into them, they got super streaky/pulse-ie feeling, which could be scary. The track day I ran last year is always really slow,and free(I volunteer), so I had tons of time in corners which is why I wasn't too concerned with car prep. Fluids and go.

I am still (feeling)broke from buying my car in Sept of last year. This year I am buying f/r xp10/xp8 and a mgw short shifter. Other than that the car is perfectly adequate on the track imo. So the rest of my funds will be going into hpde time. I just hope my tires last another year a little more wallet recouperation time would be awesome.

RDnomorecobra

One comment, I agree that stock z06 brake pads will be fine, but NOT the ceramic ones. If you're not sure what's on there, get a new set of stock c5 z06 semi-metallic pads.

Supercharged111

Be that as it may, are you actually safer with the harness bar? I've seen the Sparco bars, they don't impress me. What's a vertical bar going to do in a frontal impact? Jack ****, that's what. It'll swing forward and allow the main bar to keep failing. You're putting a shear load on a bolt that far exceeds what it was designed to do, you're asking for trouble. Even worse when the bars have an arc to them, that magnifies the problem as the metal doesn't have to stretch to give, it can simply bend. I'm no engineer, but damn, I can't believe all the people that have drank the harness bar kool-aid.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2896572

Below, read post #6, he pretty much sums it up.

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f4/wh...ars-bad-18155/

I could dig up dozens more cases, and you guys could probably throw just as many back at me. I'm not interested in the guy who got lucky and his harness bar survived, the fact of the matter is their design is inherently flawed. They're designed to be unintrusive to the interior and be easy enough for any idiot to install, that way they sell more. They load the existing hardware in a way it was never designed to be and in the event of a crash, the hardware is far more likely to fail than if it had the load on it that it was designed for. I'd love to be proven wrong as it would save me serious money getting harnesses into my ride, but the only answers we'll get are "well this driving school uses them, are you smarter than a driving school"? Apparently so. I'd hate for the OP, who may be impressionable at this point, to simply buy into the harness bar hype not realizing it's good for nothing more than autocross.

apex26

I'm in Binghamton area, and found a fantastic resource in the local Corvette club--seasoned instructors, mechanical engineers, with much experience. At the Glen comes Trackmasters, Genessee BMW club, Phoenix CMR, NASA, and Hooked on Driving. Between all that and these great forums, there is so much experience to tap. The comments specific to the Z06, and Watkins Glen, are really helpful. Even when they debate specifics, it's very helpful.

Scooter70

Actually, you're putting half the load through the bolt doing EXACTLY what it was designed to do.

The thread you linked to discussed roof crush. That's a separate issue from loads on the fasteners/B-billar hoop.

AU N EGL

How old are the tires?

Might need to get new tires, Some Nittos would be a good option

New brake pads, and brake fluid.

Then take it easy and have fun