[Z06] Vibration with monster stage 2 questions
09-04-2014, 04:50 PM
#21
Drifting
Thread Starter
Agreed monster is stepping up which I'm pleased with. Thank you Steve. Whether stock motor or not, if the units out of tolerable balance then it wouldn't matter either way. We will see Monday.
09-04-2014, 05:25 PM
#23
NOT APPLICABLE HERE as JChastain installed an LS2 Engine in his car...
Hey JChastain,
When did you change the shortblock since you had your car for sale 2 months ago in the thread below?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...28k-miles.html
Just curious to provide some accurate information for our valuable Corvette Forum members.
Christian
Hey JChastain,
When did you change the shortblock since you had your car for sale 2 months ago in the thread below?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...28k-miles.html
Just curious to provide some accurate information for our valuable Corvette Forum members.
Christian
Last edited by miami993c297; 09-05-2014 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Updating
09-04-2014, 05:30 PM
#24
Pro
Nothing of value to add, but as a Monster clutch owner myself, it's so nice to see the owner stand behind his product 100%... Which is what will always keep me coming back.
Best of luck OP. Hope this all works out for you!
Best of luck OP. Hope this all works out for you!
09-04-2014, 06:29 PM
#25
Former Vendor
09-04-2014, 08:54 PM
#26
Drifting
Thread Starter
Hey JChastain,
When did you change the shortblock since you had your car for sale 2 months ago in the thread below?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...28k-miles.html
Just curious to provide some accurate information for our valuable Corvette Forum members.
Christian
When did you change the shortblock since you had your car for sale 2 months ago in the thread below?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...28k-miles.html
Just curious to provide some accurate information for our valuable Corvette Forum members.
Christian
09-04-2014, 09:03 PM
#27
Can you please specify the origin of the actual engine in your car victim of those "vibration revving above 2k and never stopping" you are describing...
Without that clarification the thread is pretty confusing, thus useless...
Christian
Last edited by miami993c297; 09-05-2014 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Updating
09-04-2014, 10:40 PM
#28
Drifting
Thread Starter
The new clutch and new ls2 swap were done at the same time. The ls6 was removed prior. There were no vibrations when the ls6 and stock clutch were in the car.
09-04-2014, 11:29 PM
#29
Racer
basically:
A factory assembled LS engine (for manual corvette) = MAY or MAY NOT require additional external balancing to minimize vibrations
a "one off" hand built LS engine = should require a FW/PP assembly that is as close to zero balanced as possible, by itself.
You should also mention if you have changed any other driveline components like stiffer solid propshaft couplers. Have you changed to any other motor mounts or trans mounts? All can and will play a role in vibration transfer.
what was your shoe size again?
Last edited by thbwlZ; 09-05-2014 at 12:02 AM.
09-05-2014, 06:52 AM
#30
Drifting
Thread Starter
Believe it or not, this all makes a big difference, whether this was a stock LS6 engine or not, as to the kind of advice that is applicable. Now the next question that comes up since you said "LS2 swap" is; was this a LS2 crate engine from GM, an LS2 out of another vehicle (also built by GM at the factory assembly line), or was this a custom built engine? The big difference will be the tolerances allowed in the actual engine build. A one off hand built engine from an engine building shop should ALWAYS have a better final build balance closer to zero than an engine assembled via the assembly line.
basically:
A factory assembled LS engine (for manual corvette) = MAY or MAY NOT require additional external balancing to minimize vibrations
a "one off" hand built LS engine = should require a FW/PP assembly that is as close to zero balanced as possible, by itself.
You should also mention if you have changed any other driveline components like stiffer solid propshaft couplers. Have you changed to any other motor mounts or trans mounts? All can and will play a role in vibration transfer.
what was your shoe size again?
basically:
A factory assembled LS engine (for manual corvette) = MAY or MAY NOT require additional external balancing to minimize vibrations
a "one off" hand built LS engine = should require a FW/PP assembly that is as close to zero balanced as possible, by itself.
You should also mention if you have changed any other driveline components like stiffer solid propshaft couplers. Have you changed to any other motor mounts or trans mounts? All can and will play a role in vibration transfer.
what was your shoe size again?
09-05-2014, 07:32 AM
#31
Racer
You should be in good shape then, from a balance perspective. Your situation is the easiest to account for. You are going to want a FW/PP assembly that is as close to zero balanced as possible. Do you happen to have the build sheet from your engine or something that shows the final balance of your built engine? That would help even further.
09-07-2014, 05:15 PM
#32
Racer
When you replaced your LS6 engine with an LS2 engine, is it:
1. A brand new build, meaning an LS2 block with a new rotating assembly. An engine builder that took all the NEW pistons and hand worked them to get their weights to match as close as possible, along with hand working connecting rods to match each other, and so on. Then was the crankshaft balanced using bob weights reflective of the ACTUAL components being used in your build. This is balancing a rotating assembly during an engine build.
OR
2. Take an existing LS2 longblock, if not a crate engine, from another vehicle, and "freshen it up" by tearing it down and putting in new rings, bearings, and gaskets, etc without balancing the rotating assembly?
If the answer is 1, then a clutch assembly as close to zero balanced as possible should be what gives you the minimum vibrations possible.
If the answer is 2, and you don't have the original clutch assembly that came with that engine, it could be more of a guessing game.
Did you have the LS2 running in the vehicle BEFORE you replaced this clutch, or did you do the engine swap and clutch at the same time? If that's the case, and you never experienced how the LS2 ran in the car, that makes it much more difficult to try to isolate the clutch as the problem.
Factory assembled LS engines ARE NOT "hand balanced" like a "one off" engine build would be balanced. A factory assembled engine has the components assembled in their "as machined" state, and crankshafts are balanced to the nominal conditions of those components. Tolerances of individual pieces are tightly held such that this assembly will yield an engine that is within accepted balance tolerances, for reliable engine operation. Manual corvettes are unique in their driveline design and are therefore very sensitive to small imbalances that are still within the engine build tolerance. Therefore they were taken through a secondary, post build hot balance procedure to further check the overall balance, AFTER the installation of the clutch assembly (FW/PP) and then IF NEEDED, they are further balanced EXTERNALLY by the addition of balance weights in the FW, front damper, or both. This is done for NVH purposes only.
What are the actual details of your LS2 swap? completely new engine build (1), or some version of an existing LS2 (2)? In any event, the best that Monster should be expected to do is provide a clutch that is within their own reasonable balance tolerances. this is what you are having checked, and this is what they are standing behind. Hopefully this is as simple as just having your new clutch balanced a little bit further closer to zero. That would be nice. I sincerely wish you good luck.
09-07-2014, 06:31 PM
#33
Safety Car
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I hate to beat this to death, being so picky, but the details really make a difference here. "One off hand build" and "factory internals freshened up" don't go together.
When you replaced your LS6 engine with an LS2 engine, is it:
1. A brand new build, meaning an LS2 block with a new rotating assembly. An engine builder that took all the NEW pistons and hand worked them to get their weights to match as close as possible, along with hand working connecting rods to match each other, and so on. Then was the crankshaft balanced using bob weights reflective of the ACTUAL components being used in your build. This is balancing a rotating assembly during an engine build.
OR
2. Take an existing LS2 longblock, if not a crate engine, from another vehicle, and "freshen it up" by tearing it down and putting in new rings, bearings, and gaskets, etc without balancing the rotating assembly?
If the answer is 1, then a clutch assembly as close to zero balanced as possible should be what gives you the minimum vibrations possible.
If the answer is 2, and you don't have the original clutch assembly that came with that engine, it could be more of a guessing game.
Did you have the LS2 running in the vehicle BEFORE you replaced this clutch, or did you do the engine swap and clutch at the same time? If that's the case, and you never experienced how the LS2 ran in the car, that makes it much more difficult to try to isolate the clutch as the problem.
Factory assembled LS engines ARE NOT "hand balanced" like a "one off" engine build would be balanced. A factory assembled engine has the components assembled in their "as machined" state, and crankshafts are balanced to the nominal conditions of those components. Tolerances of individual pieces are tightly held such that this assembly will yield an engine that is within accepted balance tolerances, for reliable engine operation. Manual corvettes are unique in their driveline design and are therefore very sensitive to small imbalances that are still within the engine build tolerance. Therefore they were taken through a secondary, post build hot balance procedure to further check the overall balance, AFTER the installation of the clutch assembly (FW/PP) and then IF NEEDED, they are further balanced EXTERNALLY by the addition of balance weights in the FW, front damper, or both. This is done for NVH purposes only.
What are the actual details of your LS2 swap? completely new engine build (1), or some version of an existing LS2 (2)? In any event, the best that Monster should be expected to do is provide a clutch that is within their own reasonable balance tolerances. this is what you are having checked, and this is what they are standing behind. Hopefully this is as simple as just having your new clutch balanced a little bit further closer to zero. That would be nice. I sincerely wish you good luck.
When you replaced your LS6 engine with an LS2 engine, is it:
1. A brand new build, meaning an LS2 block with a new rotating assembly. An engine builder that took all the NEW pistons and hand worked them to get their weights to match as close as possible, along with hand working connecting rods to match each other, and so on. Then was the crankshaft balanced using bob weights reflective of the ACTUAL components being used in your build. This is balancing a rotating assembly during an engine build.
OR
2. Take an existing LS2 longblock, if not a crate engine, from another vehicle, and "freshen it up" by tearing it down and putting in new rings, bearings, and gaskets, etc without balancing the rotating assembly?
If the answer is 1, then a clutch assembly as close to zero balanced as possible should be what gives you the minimum vibrations possible.
If the answer is 2, and you don't have the original clutch assembly that came with that engine, it could be more of a guessing game.
Did you have the LS2 running in the vehicle BEFORE you replaced this clutch, or did you do the engine swap and clutch at the same time? If that's the case, and you never experienced how the LS2 ran in the car, that makes it much more difficult to try to isolate the clutch as the problem.
Factory assembled LS engines ARE NOT "hand balanced" like a "one off" engine build would be balanced. A factory assembled engine has the components assembled in their "as machined" state, and crankshafts are balanced to the nominal conditions of those components. Tolerances of individual pieces are tightly held such that this assembly will yield an engine that is within accepted balance tolerances, for reliable engine operation. Manual corvettes are unique in their driveline design and are therefore very sensitive to small imbalances that are still within the engine build tolerance. Therefore they were taken through a secondary, post build hot balance procedure to further check the overall balance, AFTER the installation of the clutch assembly (FW/PP) and then IF NEEDED, they are further balanced EXTERNALLY by the addition of balance weights in the FW, front damper, or both. This is done for NVH purposes only.
What are the actual details of your LS2 swap? completely new engine build (1), or some version of an existing LS2 (2)? In any event, the best that Monster should be expected to do is provide a clutch that is within their own reasonable balance tolerances. this is what you are having checked, and this is what they are standing behind. Hopefully this is as simple as just having your new clutch balanced a little bit further closer to zero. That would be nice. I sincerely wish you good luck.
09-10-2014, 01:29 PM
#37
Tech Contributor
Good luck on getting this resolved !
Monster WILL stang behind their product from my experience.
I have the Monster Stage 2 clutch with their 18lb flywheel.
No issues at all in 3+ yrs now.
I'm still enjoying it ...
I would put another one in if I had to.
Toque
Monster WILL stang behind their product from my experience.
I have the Monster Stage 2 clutch with their 18lb flywheel.
No issues at all in 3+ yrs now.
I'm still enjoying it ...
I would put another one in if I had to.
Toque
09-11-2014, 09:55 AM
#39
Racer
I believe this will end up being a pilot bearing. I know you said they replaced it but it can still be bad. I installed a clutch on mine, replaced everything, took it out to drive and had the same symptoms you're having. I took it all back out, had the clutch rebalanced thinking that was the problem and still had the same vibration. Took it all back apart again and when I pulled the pilot bearing back out, tons of ball bearings fell out.
I struggled the first time to get the clutch back in compared to my 2nd and 3rd time (slid in pretty easily). Even using an alignment tool, I had to force it a little on that first time which did the bearing in. You won't know until you pull it out though.
I struggled the first time to get the clutch back in compared to my 2nd and 3rd time (slid in pretty easily). Even using an alignment tool, I had to force it a little on that first time which did the bearing in. You won't know until you pull it out though.
09-17-2014, 07:10 PM
#40
Former Vendor
Just installed with new slave, master, pilot, and billet steel flywheel. I'm getting vibration through the gears and a lot through the shifter. Is this a common characteristic of this clutch. It's a single disc and was installed through a reputable shop. When put in neutral it stops the vibration. Will this cause an issue with anything internal in the motor until it's fixed? Thanks