dbs1vette

Ok guys and gals, I'm revisiting this issue to get your thoughts.

I transplanted my LS3 based 416 from my 02 camaro that died from a track fire to my 04 Z. Through the twisties on track, no doubt the Z is faster, but on corner exists and the straights it's slower than the 02 camaro was with this engine (and my former 67 bbc camaro). I base this on video of all cars on same track, same general time of year and vs a 620hp 2012 Viper buddy that weighed within 20lbs of the 02 camaro and of which I could slightly pull down a long straight with the camaro, but got pulled on slightly with the 300lb lighter Z.

Camaro had 1 7/8 headers with no cats and straight through 3" exhaust, bullet muffs. Z has 1 7/8 headers with high flow cats, 3" pipes into stock 2.5" TI exhaust, but elec cutouts before TI.


Camaro had cable 92mm TB, Z had stock fly by wire LS2, though I just ported it.

Camaro had 3.73 gears, M6 trans. Z has 3.42 gears and M12.

Camaro weighed 3450. Z 3165.

Camaro had open front and access to more air for cai and SS hood with ram air. Z is bottom feeder, but also giant Halltech cai, though I think it does not get enough air flow????

On dyno the camaro showed 525/520 vs the Z 500/490.

From this list, any ideas as to why the lighter Z is giving up some zip, especially above 5000 rpm? Same exact tire.

PeteZ06

Camaro had solid rear.. Z has IRS

Doesn't IRS rob you of some HP?

You're down 25hp.. A 5% loss.. Not much.


Why did your Camaro have a M12 trans and your Z a M6?
Shouldn't it be the other way around?

dbs1vette

25hp is significant IMO, especially in a long straight and you lose 2 car positions in the process. Difference in 1st and 3rd. Ugh.

Trans is a typo, I'll edit. Thx.

PeteZ06

The 300 lb difference should more than make up the loss of 25hp.

I would start doing some math wih your gearing and see what role that's playing.

PeteZ06

If what you're saying is accurate about the camaro running a m12 and 3.73 vs the Z running a m6 and 3.42.. There's why the camaro was so strong 1-3 gears.

dbs1vette

As stated earlier, I got the 2 mis typed. They both have the stock trans from the factory with the Z having the M12.

Shorter gearing and less weight in the Z would have you think it would accelerate faster, but even in the short straights and out of the corners that appears to not quite be true, and on a long straight, the camaro would pull a few more mph.

I should add, that prior to the elec cutouts and a retune I was at 480/465 which was my last track outing with the viper there. I took a spanking. Wondering if shorter gears, even if needing to go into 5th on a long straight would make up for the restrictive exhaust/less air flow?

dbgoodwin

It takes a lot more than 25hp to make a catfish outrun a c5z.. I believe that it happened, but I don't believe that 25hp alone caused it.

dbs1vette

If the catfish reference is the 2012 viper with a few mods making 620hp, it would handle a stock powered C5Z handily. Not so much if the car was still making 525 at the wheels as the camaro was.

Last time I had said viper on the same track I was down 45hp to him.

540i 6spd

Change out your exhaust to a Corsa xtreme or something free flowing. I think you will find most if not all your 25hp.

dbgoodwin

Catfish=fbody camaro. You know, because they look like a catfish.

dbgoodwin

See? It's not an insult, but they do like like a catfish

dbs1vette

Bwahahahahahaha. I never noticed that. It DOES look like a catfish!

No doubt most of it is in the exhaust. I put it on the dyno and did a quick check. Stock exhaust bolted up and then un bolted. 15 rwhp. I did elec cutouts to keep the quietness and lightweight of the stock TI exhaust, but back on the dyno it showed only 7-8hp.

If I didn't care about sound and cost it would be the BB exhaust, but it gets driven a lot around town and road trips, so...no booming exhaust. Me thinks there is another 10hp besides exhaust and I'm wondering if it's simply air flow to the cai as well as the TB that was slightly smaller? I just got it ported and MAY have gained a little. Butt dyno isn't sensitive enough to tell just yet.

Thanks for all the replies...gonna haft a now go to the local aquarium and do a closer study on that SS catfish.

silver408z

The cats on the z exhaust are not helping either. The Camaro did not have cats. Even high flow cats do not work with big power

dbs1vette

I believe you are exactly right. The camaro was an 80% track car and 20% street. The vette is just the opposite and had to go see the emissions man right from the start, so I opted for ARH's headers with hi flow cats...and I'm sure right there is another 5-10hp possibly. But I don't have no stink inside the car.

Stinkin trade offs anyway.

momo20

my brother has a single turbo set to 7 psi camaro 2002 z/28 with meth injection/cam and valve train upgrade and map sensor, my 03 Z06 is running an ECS S/C setup and i can pull him every single time from a dig or from a roll, the longer we go the worse it gets for him..i would look at your tune again and see what's going on..both the camaro and c5/c6 vettes are bottom feeders

dbs1vette

Shop is gonna check the tune this week prior to a weekend rr, since I've had the tb ported. It'll be the 4th tune/retune since it being in the car.