[Z06] Need alittle help with coilovers or swaybars and shocks!!!
08-03-2015, 08:44 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Need alittle help with coilovers or swaybars and shocks!!!
I'm looking to upgrade my 04z suspension. Strictly a weekend street car. My question is it worth it to upgrade to coilovers or gd swaybars and shocks? And of course lower my car. Thanks
08-03-2015, 09:41 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
You say that you want to upgrade your suspension for a weekend driver and the question is why????
The C5Z is already about as stiff a car as you could want for the street with the stock suspension, and it performs on the track just fine with that setup, so making the car stiffer isn't really going to make it handle any better for street duty. The stock 04Z shocks not only ride well, but are actually one of the best shocks for handling in the world. Bottom line is that the parts you have are already about as good as you can get and throwing parts at it are, more than likely, just going to screw up the balance and make it worse. GM had one of the best ride and handling engineers in the world (John Heinricy) develop the suspension on the C5Z and it was set up as a very aggressive car with relatively stiff springs, primarily for autocross and track work. A person without suspension tuning expertise isn't going to make it any better without spending extensive time on a test track to properly develop the car. The old days of making big improvements in suspension performance by adding a stiffer set of sway bars are long gone. This car was developed and tested at the "Ring" and unless you want to spend a fortune for a minimal improvement, you just aren't going to find it.
If you really want to improve the handling of these cars what you need to do is get your car properly set up with the stock parts and get a good set of performance tire.
A really good correct alignment really wakes these cars up. I can't tell you how many folks have driven my car on an autocross course and are amazed at how well it handles compared to their car that hasn't been set up. The difference between a properly set up and aligned car is like night and day.
My suggestion is to PROPERLY lower the car about 3/4 of an inch from the stock ride height. Here is a link to a thread on how to do it correctly.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1576940245
Once the car is lowered you need to do an alignment and here is where you will make it a different car.
I autocross my car and am willing to give up some tire life for ultimate handing. I run -2 degrees of negative camber in the front and 1/8 of an inch of toe in. On the track or autocross course I move reset the toe to 1/8 of an inch of toe out to help the car turn in, but on the street toe out eats tires. Camber does wear tires but it's not as big a deal, I generally get 15 to 20k miles on a set of tire.
For street only, I would run between 1.0 and 1.5 degrees of negative camber I the front and about 1/8 of an inch of toe in and between 6 and 7 degrees of caster.
In the back you should run about 1/2 of a degree less negative camber than in the front, and about 1/8 of an inch of toe in also.
Add to that a good set of sticky tires and you will have a canyon carver that virtually no other car on the street can touch. I know tire selection for the Z is somewhat limited, but if you go to 18's/19's there are more to choose from.
Bottom line is that if you set the car up right and get good tires on it there isn't anything on the street that can go around corners any faster than what you have now, and a correct alignment will make the car feel a lot better.
The C5Z is already about as stiff a car as you could want for the street with the stock suspension, and it performs on the track just fine with that setup, so making the car stiffer isn't really going to make it handle any better for street duty. The stock 04Z shocks not only ride well, but are actually one of the best shocks for handling in the world. Bottom line is that the parts you have are already about as good as you can get and throwing parts at it are, more than likely, just going to screw up the balance and make it worse. GM had one of the best ride and handling engineers in the world (John Heinricy) develop the suspension on the C5Z and it was set up as a very aggressive car with relatively stiff springs, primarily for autocross and track work. A person without suspension tuning expertise isn't going to make it any better without spending extensive time on a test track to properly develop the car. The old days of making big improvements in suspension performance by adding a stiffer set of sway bars are long gone. This car was developed and tested at the "Ring" and unless you want to spend a fortune for a minimal improvement, you just aren't going to find it.
If you really want to improve the handling of these cars what you need to do is get your car properly set up with the stock parts and get a good set of performance tire.
A really good correct alignment really wakes these cars up. I can't tell you how many folks have driven my car on an autocross course and are amazed at how well it handles compared to their car that hasn't been set up. The difference between a properly set up and aligned car is like night and day.
My suggestion is to PROPERLY lower the car about 3/4 of an inch from the stock ride height. Here is a link to a thread on how to do it correctly.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1576940245
Once the car is lowered you need to do an alignment and here is where you will make it a different car.
I autocross my car and am willing to give up some tire life for ultimate handing. I run -2 degrees of negative camber in the front and 1/8 of an inch of toe in. On the track or autocross course I move reset the toe to 1/8 of an inch of toe out to help the car turn in, but on the street toe out eats tires. Camber does wear tires but it's not as big a deal, I generally get 15 to 20k miles on a set of tire.
For street only, I would run between 1.0 and 1.5 degrees of negative camber I the front and about 1/8 of an inch of toe in and between 6 and 7 degrees of caster.
In the back you should run about 1/2 of a degree less negative camber than in the front, and about 1/8 of an inch of toe in also.
Add to that a good set of sticky tires and you will have a canyon carver that virtually no other car on the street can touch. I know tire selection for the Z is somewhat limited, but if you go to 18's/19's there are more to choose from.
Bottom line is that if you set the car up right and get good tires on it there isn't anything on the street that can go around corners any faster than what you have now, and a correct alignment will make the car feel a lot better.
Last edited by Solofast; 08-03-2015 at 09:48 AM.
08-03-2015, 10:17 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
I agree with everything he said. No need to "improve?" on the stock suspension. It's damn good from the factory. Lowering the car, getting a good alignment, and good tires will do wonders.
The only thing I might add is the possibility of putting a set of rear wheels on the front of the car and Sam Strano sway bar to help offset the extra turn in that will provide so you have the ability to rotate tires front to rear.
Otherwise, follow Solofast's advise.
The only thing I might add is the possibility of putting a set of rear wheels on the front of the car and Sam Strano sway bar to help offset the extra turn in that will provide so you have the ability to rotate tires front to rear.
Otherwise, follow Solofast's advise.
08-03-2015, 11:14 AM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
You say that you want to upgrade your suspension for a weekend driver and the question is why????
The C5Z is already about as stiff a car as you could want for the street with the stock suspension, and it performs on the track just fine with that setup, so making the car stiffer isn't really going to make it handle any better for street duty. The stock 04Z shocks not only ride well, but are actually one of the best shocks for handling in the world. Bottom line is that the parts you have are already about as good as you can get and throwing parts at it are, more than likely, just going to screw up the balance and make it worse. GM had one of the best ride and handling engineers in the world (John Heinricy) develop the suspension on the C5Z and it was set up as a very aggressive car with relatively stiff springs, primarily for autocross and track work. A person without suspension tuning expertise isn't going to make it any better without spending extensive time on a test track to properly develop the car. The old days of making big improvements in suspension performance by adding a stiffer set of sway bars are long gone. This car was developed and tested at the "Ring" and unless you want to spend a fortune for a minimal improvement, you just aren't going to find it.
If you really want to improve the handling of these cars what you need to do is get your car properly set up with the stock parts and get a good set of performance tire.
A really good correct alignment really wakes these cars up. I can't tell you how many folks have driven my car on an autocross course and are amazed at how well it handles compared to their car that hasn't been set up. The difference between a properly set up and aligned car is like night and day.
My suggestion is to PROPERLY lower the car about 3/4 of an inch from the stock ride height. Here is a link to a thread on how to do it correctly.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1576940245
Once the car is lowered you need to do an alignment and here is where you will make it a different car.
I autocross my car and am willing to give up some tire life for ultimate handing. I run -2 degrees of negative camber in the front and 1/8 of an inch of toe in. On the track or autocross course I move reset the toe to 1/8 of an inch of toe out to help the car turn in, but on the street toe out eats tires. Camber does wear tires but it's not as big a deal, I generally get 15 to 20k miles on a set of tire.
For street only, I would run between 1.0 and 1.5 degrees of negative camber I the front and about 1/8 of an inch of toe in and between 6 and 7 degrees of caster.
In the back you should run about 1/2 of a degree less negative camber than in the front, and about 1/8 of an inch of toe in also.
Add to that a good set of sticky tires and you will have a canyon carver that virtually no other car on the street can touch. I know tire selection for the Z is somewhat limited, but if you go to 18's/19's there are more to choose from.
Bottom line is that if you set the car up right and get good tires on it there isn't anything on the street that can go around corners any faster than what you have now, and a correct alignment will make the car feel a lot better.
The C5Z is already about as stiff a car as you could want for the street with the stock suspension, and it performs on the track just fine with that setup, so making the car stiffer isn't really going to make it handle any better for street duty. The stock 04Z shocks not only ride well, but are actually one of the best shocks for handling in the world. Bottom line is that the parts you have are already about as good as you can get and throwing parts at it are, more than likely, just going to screw up the balance and make it worse. GM had one of the best ride and handling engineers in the world (John Heinricy) develop the suspension on the C5Z and it was set up as a very aggressive car with relatively stiff springs, primarily for autocross and track work. A person without suspension tuning expertise isn't going to make it any better without spending extensive time on a test track to properly develop the car. The old days of making big improvements in suspension performance by adding a stiffer set of sway bars are long gone. This car was developed and tested at the "Ring" and unless you want to spend a fortune for a minimal improvement, you just aren't going to find it.
If you really want to improve the handling of these cars what you need to do is get your car properly set up with the stock parts and get a good set of performance tire.
A really good correct alignment really wakes these cars up. I can't tell you how many folks have driven my car on an autocross course and are amazed at how well it handles compared to their car that hasn't been set up. The difference between a properly set up and aligned car is like night and day.
My suggestion is to PROPERLY lower the car about 3/4 of an inch from the stock ride height. Here is a link to a thread on how to do it correctly.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1576940245
Once the car is lowered you need to do an alignment and here is where you will make it a different car.
I autocross my car and am willing to give up some tire life for ultimate handing. I run -2 degrees of negative camber in the front and 1/8 of an inch of toe in. On the track or autocross course I move reset the toe to 1/8 of an inch of toe out to help the car turn in, but on the street toe out eats tires. Camber does wear tires but it's not as big a deal, I generally get 15 to 20k miles on a set of tire.
For street only, I would run between 1.0 and 1.5 degrees of negative camber I the front and about 1/8 of an inch of toe in and between 6 and 7 degrees of caster.
In the back you should run about 1/2 of a degree less negative camber than in the front, and about 1/8 of an inch of toe in also.
Add to that a good set of sticky tires and you will have a canyon carver that virtually no other car on the street can touch. I know tire selection for the Z is somewhat limited, but if you go to 18's/19's there are more to choose from.
Bottom line is that if you set the car up right and get good tires on it there isn't anything on the street that can go around corners any faster than what you have now, and a correct alignment will make the car feel a lot better.
08-03-2015, 11:28 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
The problem with coilovers is in order to get quality dampers your spending thousands of $ and your return on investment isn't that good. You'd be better off spending that money on some nicer wheels/tires and the alignment.
08-03-2015, 11:34 AM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
I was going to purchase the lg gt2.. but save my money like you said and upgrade alignment tires and wheels. It just feels like my car bounces and and jolts over bumps. Just want to do this once thanks
08-03-2015, 09:10 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
I've been Autocrossing my 04 Z06 for two years now. I have a ZR1 front sway bar and a Hotchkis rear. Good alignment for autocross. My car rips. I want to buy shocks or coilovers, but I just can't see it being much better. I bet on a 60 second course it will be .5 to 1 second faster if I get it all right. If your on the street, I don't think your counting .5 to 1 second slower going through the canyons. All that bouncing your feeling is just stiff suspension. The way it should be. Tires and alignment is #1. Saying all this, there's nothing wrong modifying your car. This is what I did when I got bored. Then I went back to stock.
Steve
Steve
Last edited by mountainbiker2; 08-03-2015 at 09:14 PM.
08-04-2015, 11:34 PM
#9
Drifting
I know many people on here like to make a point that "the Z is already more car than you could need and you'll never come close to mastering it at the limit blah blah blah" - "the engineers did the best job in the world designing it how could they do any wrong blah blah blah" - (and to the poster who suggested lowering it....wouldn't the car come that way from the factory too if it made it "better" handling?)
The FACT of the matter is that while the C5 Z was (and is) a beast in stock form, the car you're driving was designed and built over a dozen years ago- and besides that design/engineering being dated, the shocks - quite literally are physically dated- like as in, they're OLD!!!!!!
Even if the thing stayed in a shrink wrapped bubble untouched for a dozen years it'd still be "wear" and aging on the shocks....not so much the leaf springs, but the shocks absolutely.
Throw in temperature swings, humidity and atmosphere eating at any exposed/vulnerable parts, sheer weight and heft of the car just sitting there - then of course all these cars are/have been USED (some beaten down) - well then there you have it- time for at least new shocks.
The stock shocks on my '03 Z had 12,xxx miles on them, but they were junk, shot, terrible crashing over imperfections, unsettling over mid corner joints, etc - the bilstein sport shocks I replaced them with are worlds better.
The tires I body has a problem bad mouthing to the end of days and chastising any new owner to replace them - while there the point of dry rot which is one thing, on a road car driven normally more often than not a set of shocks can be "worn" before a set of tires (not usually the case w/ performance cars obviously) - but the point is the very AGE of the shocks should warrant replacing- even with 04 Sachs shocks if you wish.
I researched this heavily and have had other performance/modded cars, from a pure performance/bang for the buck/overall enjoyment standpoint the mods to do before all others: new shocks, tires, tune, shifter, intake- those mods right there transform the Z and refreshed the hell outta them!!
The FACT of the matter is that while the C5 Z was (and is) a beast in stock form, the car you're driving was designed and built over a dozen years ago- and besides that design/engineering being dated, the shocks - quite literally are physically dated- like as in, they're OLD!!!!!!
Even if the thing stayed in a shrink wrapped bubble untouched for a dozen years it'd still be "wear" and aging on the shocks....not so much the leaf springs, but the shocks absolutely.
Throw in temperature swings, humidity and atmosphere eating at any exposed/vulnerable parts, sheer weight and heft of the car just sitting there - then of course all these cars are/have been USED (some beaten down) - well then there you have it- time for at least new shocks.
The stock shocks on my '03 Z had 12,xxx miles on them, but they were junk, shot, terrible crashing over imperfections, unsettling over mid corner joints, etc - the bilstein sport shocks I replaced them with are worlds better.
The tires I body has a problem bad mouthing to the end of days and chastising any new owner to replace them - while there the point of dry rot which is one thing, on a road car driven normally more often than not a set of shocks can be "worn" before a set of tires (not usually the case w/ performance cars obviously) - but the point is the very AGE of the shocks should warrant replacing- even with 04 Sachs shocks if you wish.
I researched this heavily and have had other performance/modded cars, from a pure performance/bang for the buck/overall enjoyment standpoint the mods to do before all others: new shocks, tires, tune, shifter, intake- those mods right there transform the Z and refreshed the hell outta them!!
08-05-2015, 09:49 AM
#10
Drifting
I have an '04 Z with DRM shocks and Johnny O'Connell sway bars.
I track the regularly at Sebring and it is also a street fun car.
I have often considered going with LG coilover and T1 sway bars. I know the car would handle better on the track. The thing is, you have to push it so hard to notice those differences I can't see you benefiting much from it on the street.
Yes, ultimately it will handle better but how fast are you really taking these corners on the street?
When I'm in "street mode" I don't even come close to taking corners as fast as I do on the track thereby utilizing the suspension, etc.
For just a street car I think spending that much money is somewhat silly but you WILL notice a difference on it. Improving the handling more will also throw you around in the seat a lot thereby not letting you know what is really going on with the car.
Just my $.02
I track the regularly at Sebring and it is also a street fun car.
I have often considered going with LG coilover and T1 sway bars. I know the car would handle better on the track. The thing is, you have to push it so hard to notice those differences I can't see you benefiting much from it on the street.
Yes, ultimately it will handle better but how fast are you really taking these corners on the street?
When I'm in "street mode" I don't even come close to taking corners as fast as I do on the track thereby utilizing the suspension, etc.
For just a street car I think spending that much money is somewhat silly but you WILL notice a difference on it. Improving the handling more will also throw you around in the seat a lot thereby not letting you know what is really going on with the car.
Just my $.02
08-05-2015, 09:57 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
I know many people on here like to make a point that "the Z is already more car than you could need and you'll never come close to mastering it at the limit blah blah blah" - "the engineers did the best job in the world designing it how could they do any wrong blah blah blah" - (and to the poster who suggested lowering it....wouldn't the car come that way from the factory too if it made it "better" handling?)
The FACT of the matter is that while the C5 Z was (and is) a beast in stock form, the car you're driving was designed and built over a dozen years ago- and besides that design/engineering being dated, the shocks - quite literally are physically dated- like as in, they're OLD!!!!!!
Even if the thing stayed in a shrink wrapped bubble untouched for a dozen years it'd still be "wear" and aging on the shocks....not so much the leaf springs, but the shocks absolutely.
Throw in temperature swings, humidity and atmosphere eating at any exposed/vulnerable parts, sheer weight and heft of the car just sitting there - then of course all these cars are/have been USED (some beaten down) - well then there you have it- time for at least new shocks.
The stock shocks on my '03 Z had 12,xxx miles on them, but they were junk, shot, terrible crashing over imperfections, unsettling over mid corner joints, etc - the bilstein sport shocks I replaced them with are worlds better.
The tires I body has a problem bad mouthing to the end of days and chastising any new owner to replace them - while there the point of dry rot which is one thing, on a road car driven normally more often than not a set of shocks can be "worn" before a set of tires (not usually the case w/ performance cars obviously) - but the point is the very AGE of the shocks should warrant replacing- even with 04 Sachs shocks if you wish.
I researched this heavily and have had other performance/modded cars, from a pure performance/bang for the buck/overall enjoyment standpoint the mods to do before all others: new shocks, tires, tune, shifter, intake- those mods right there transform the Z and refreshed the hell outta them!!
The FACT of the matter is that while the C5 Z was (and is) a beast in stock form, the car you're driving was designed and built over a dozen years ago- and besides that design/engineering being dated, the shocks - quite literally are physically dated- like as in, they're OLD!!!!!!
Even if the thing stayed in a shrink wrapped bubble untouched for a dozen years it'd still be "wear" and aging on the shocks....not so much the leaf springs, but the shocks absolutely.
Throw in temperature swings, humidity and atmosphere eating at any exposed/vulnerable parts, sheer weight and heft of the car just sitting there - then of course all these cars are/have been USED (some beaten down) - well then there you have it- time for at least new shocks.
The stock shocks on my '03 Z had 12,xxx miles on them, but they were junk, shot, terrible crashing over imperfections, unsettling over mid corner joints, etc - the bilstein sport shocks I replaced them with are worlds better.
The tires I body has a problem bad mouthing to the end of days and chastising any new owner to replace them - while there the point of dry rot which is one thing, on a road car driven normally more often than not a set of shocks can be "worn" before a set of tires (not usually the case w/ performance cars obviously) - but the point is the very AGE of the shocks should warrant replacing- even with 04 Sachs shocks if you wish.
I researched this heavily and have had other performance/modded cars, from a pure performance/bang for the buck/overall enjoyment standpoint the mods to do before all others: new shocks, tires, tune, shifter, intake- those mods right there transform the Z and refreshed the hell outta them!!
First of all, while the C5 was designed almost 20 years ago the overall design, geometry and performance has yet to be surpassed. If you look at the geometry of the C6 and even the C7 it is almost identical to the C5 and many of the C6 parts are interchangeable. The suspension of the C5 is about as good as it gets, and if you spend any time at serious autocross events (like national level competition) you will find that some of the very fastest cars are still C5Z's.. To imply that this is old technology and isn't going to handle well is to show your ignorance.
Shocks do wear out and if you have high miles on them they are just like any other wear item, they need to be replaced.
That said the 04 shocks were made by the German company Sachs and are totally different from your 03 shocks and they last a lot longer than the 03 shocks.
More over, shocks don't "age" if they aren't being used and if the seals are good and the fluid hasn't leaked out, and they aren't worn out there is no reason to remove them. Please explain how a shock would "age" if it is not being used. Shocks are full of oil and pressurized nitrogen gas, so there is no corrosion inside. Your comments about a shock going bad by just sitting are nonsense.
And I'm the poster who suggested lowering it and I do so not only because I've tested it on the track and found that it does indeed improve the handling, but the factory video tape that came with the car RECOMMENDS lowering it for optimum performance. If you had done some research on the subject you'd have known that the factory sets the car up at ride height that they feel is good for the "average" owner. Chevrolet recommend lowering the car a relatively small amount for optimum performance and they know how to set the car up.
You said you "researched" the subject thoroughly, but obviously you didn't use the right search engine..
08-05-2015, 10:51 AM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
This post is so full of nonsense that I almost don't know where to start...
First of all, while the C5 was designed almost 20 years ago the overall design, geometry and performance has yet to be surpassed. If you look at the geometry of the C6 and even the C7 it is almost identical to the C5 and many of the C6 parts are interchangeable. The suspension of the C5 is about as good as it gets, and if you spend any time at serious autocross events (like national level competition) you will find that some of the very fastest cars are still C5Z's.. To imply that this is old technology and isn't going to handle well is to show your ignorance.
Shocks do wear out and if you have high miles on them they are just like any other wear item, they need to be replaced.
That said the 04 shocks were made by the German company Sachs and are totally different from your 03 shocks and they last a lot longer than the 03 shocks.
More over, shocks don't "age" if they aren't being used and if the seals are good and the fluid hasn't leaked out, and they aren't worn out there is no reason to remove them. Please explain how a shock would "age" if it is not being used. Shocks are full of oil and pressurized nitrogen gas, so there is no corrosion inside. Your comments about a shock going bad by just sitting are nonsense.
And I'm the poster who suggested lowering it and I do so not only because I've tested it on the track and found that it does indeed improve the handling, but the factory video tape that came with the car RECOMMENDS lowering it for optimum performance. If you had done some research on the subject you'd have known that the factory sets the car up at ride height that they feel is good for the "average" owner. Chevrolet recommend lowering the car a relatively small amount for optimum performance and they know how to set the car up.
You said you "researched" the subject thoroughly, but obviously you didn't use the right search engine..
First of all, while the C5 was designed almost 20 years ago the overall design, geometry and performance has yet to be surpassed. If you look at the geometry of the C6 and even the C7 it is almost identical to the C5 and many of the C6 parts are interchangeable. The suspension of the C5 is about as good as it gets, and if you spend any time at serious autocross events (like national level competition) you will find that some of the very fastest cars are still C5Z's.. To imply that this is old technology and isn't going to handle well is to show your ignorance.
Shocks do wear out and if you have high miles on them they are just like any other wear item, they need to be replaced.
That said the 04 shocks were made by the German company Sachs and are totally different from your 03 shocks and they last a lot longer than the 03 shocks.
More over, shocks don't "age" if they aren't being used and if the seals are good and the fluid hasn't leaked out, and they aren't worn out there is no reason to remove them. Please explain how a shock would "age" if it is not being used. Shocks are full of oil and pressurized nitrogen gas, so there is no corrosion inside. Your comments about a shock going bad by just sitting are nonsense.
And I'm the poster who suggested lowering it and I do so not only because I've tested it on the track and found that it does indeed improve the handling, but the factory video tape that came with the car RECOMMENDS lowering it for optimum performance. If you had done some research on the subject you'd have known that the factory sets the car up at ride height that they feel is good for the "average" owner. Chevrolet recommend lowering the car a relatively small amount for optimum performance and they know how to set the car up.
You said you "researched" the subject thoroughly, but obviously you didn't use the right search engine..
08-05-2015, 11:17 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: KcMo.
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2018 C5 of Year Winner
Another reason the C5 sits so high from the factory is for transport purposes. Can't really pull a car with an inch or two clearance in the front up into a train car. 
.
.
08-05-2015, 11:44 AM
#14
Drifting
This post is so full of nonsense that I almost don't know where to start...
First of all, while the C5 was designed almost 20 years ago the overall design, geometry and performance has yet to be surpassed. If you look at the geometry of the C6 and even the C7 it is almost identical to the C5 and many of the C6 parts are interchangeable. The suspension of the C5 is about as good as it gets, and if you spend any time at serious autocross events (like national level competition) you will find that some of the very fastest cars are still C5Z's.. To imply that this is old technology and isn't going to handle well is to show your ignorance.
Shocks do wear out and if you have high miles on them they are just like any other wear item, they need to be replaced.
That said the 04 shocks were made by the German company Sachs and are totally different from your 03 shocks and they last a lot longer than the 03 shocks.
More over, shocks don't "age" if they aren't being used and if the seals are good and the fluid hasn't leaked out, and they aren't worn out there is no reason to remove them. Please explain how a shock would "age" if it is not being used. Shocks are full of oil and pressurized nitrogen gas, so there is no corrosion inside. Your comments about a shock going bad by just sitting are nonsense.
And I'm the poster who suggested lowering it and I do so not only because I've tested it on the track and found that it does indeed improve the handling, but the factory video tape that came with the car RECOMMENDS lowering it for optimum performance. If you had done some research on the subject you'd have known that the factory sets the car up at ride height that they feel is good for the "average" owner. Chevrolet recommend lowering the car a relatively small amount for optimum performance and they know how to set the car up.
You said you "researched" the subject thoroughly, but obviously you didn't use the right search engine..
First of all, while the C5 was designed almost 20 years ago the overall design, geometry and performance has yet to be surpassed. If you look at the geometry of the C6 and even the C7 it is almost identical to the C5 and many of the C6 parts are interchangeable. The suspension of the C5 is about as good as it gets, and if you spend any time at serious autocross events (like national level competition) you will find that some of the very fastest cars are still C5Z's.. To imply that this is old technology and isn't going to handle well is to show your ignorance.
Shocks do wear out and if you have high miles on them they are just like any other wear item, they need to be replaced.
That said the 04 shocks were made by the German company Sachs and are totally different from your 03 shocks and they last a lot longer than the 03 shocks.
More over, shocks don't "age" if they aren't being used and if the seals are good and the fluid hasn't leaked out, and they aren't worn out there is no reason to remove them. Please explain how a shock would "age" if it is not being used. Shocks are full of oil and pressurized nitrogen gas, so there is no corrosion inside. Your comments about a shock going bad by just sitting are nonsense.
And I'm the poster who suggested lowering it and I do so not only because I've tested it on the track and found that it does indeed improve the handling, but the factory video tape that came with the car RECOMMENDS lowering it for optimum performance. If you had done some research on the subject you'd have known that the factory sets the car up at ride height that they feel is good for the "average" owner. Chevrolet recommend lowering the car a relatively small amount for optimum performance and they know how to set the car up.
You said you "researched" the subject thoroughly, but obviously you didn't use the right search engine..
And yes I do know about lowering the Z for track purposes...if you read through the OP mentions nothing about tracking the car, he does mention setups "for the street" though.
I'm not trying to steer him wrong, and I also agree the LG coilovers are alot of $$$ for return on performance, but I disagree that 12-16 year old shocks attached to a car that has been used sporadically over that time frame are going to perform like new shocks out of a box, regardless of miles, and regardless of whether they're the '04 Sachs shocks or 03 or 01 or C6Z etc. And while the 04 shocks are definitely the best OEM available and designed for the car....no disputing that....they're nice and all but there's higher end aftermarket out there.
08-05-2015, 03:07 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
GM has a corporate policy that all vehicles shall be capable of operation with "traction improvements in bad weather"... Read chains... Yes, chains would mess up your aluminum wheels and make a mess out of things, but there is sufficient clearance in the wheel wells to fit snow chains or other traction improvement devices if you had to.
Isn't it nice to know that GM is looking our for you...
08-06-2015, 06:27 PM
#16
Drifting
The best reason not to use Coil Overs on a C5; it's a back bone design is meant to carry the spring load down the center of the frame (reason that they used a leaf style spring). The outer shock points are stressed for only the load of the dampeners. Adding the spring load out at that shock mount doubles moment load of the frame will cause excess flex. Now this is all different in a reinforced race frame.
As Solofast stated; 1. Tires, 2. Alignment, 3. Properly valved Dampeners will give you the best results. And adjust for (over or understeer) at an autocross is as simple as changing the rear tow.
OP, the reason for the bounce (if your car is already lowered) is that it may be to low already.
C5Dobie, I'v just had my JRZ DAs check (because I thought they might need servicing) but they check out right in spec, and that's with 120k on them. It pays to by quality. I couldn't afford them now (or should I say justify) but 14 years ago I thought they were affordable and right for what I was doing with the car (Solo ll National Tour). To be honest I got beat by drivers running Bilstein Sports. They were just better drivers on those day.
Mark
As Solofast stated; 1. Tires, 2. Alignment, 3. Properly valved Dampeners will give you the best results. And adjust for (over or understeer) at an autocross is as simple as changing the rear tow.
OP, the reason for the bounce (if your car is already lowered) is that it may be to low already.
C5Dobie, I'v just had my JRZ DAs check (because I thought they might need servicing) but they check out right in spec, and that's with 120k on them. It pays to by quality. I couldn't afford them now (or should I say justify) but 14 years ago I thought they were affordable and right for what I was doing with the car (Solo ll National Tour). To be honest I got beat by drivers running Bilstein Sports. They were just better drivers on those day.
Mark
08-09-2015, 10:06 AM
#18
Melting Slicks
My auto x days have come & gone, I do have an appreciation for correct alignments. I have spent a lot of time on alignment racks & studying photo's of hard turns.....even how the car leaves the start box & how it stops.
Class limitation's forced me to work with stock springs, shock's, took the points for tires first. Now that I'm no longer having to work within the rules & have an appreciation for a well set up car I've moved into coils & sways. One of the best modifications I've done to the car, the phenomenon of side stepping is gone. I never liked the feeling of power on in a turn when the pavement was rough......just hold the wheel it will be fine.
I'm also in the silly rear wheel power, the suspension improvements make the car. It feels like a go cart, front is planted on the brakes, the rear is in perfect control power on. Never any side stepping or shake, the suspension makes the car.
So I will respectfully disagree with you guys on the comments regarding a weekend warrior, mine is full on. I'm not sure if the ride of my set up is any firmer of well setup stock deal, my only comparison is my near stock C6 Z51 with Pfadt shocks. It is slightly stiffer than that, it is softer spring rates than Z06 I believe.
Class limitation's forced me to work with stock springs, shock's, took the points for tires first. Now that I'm no longer having to work within the rules & have an appreciation for a well set up car I've moved into coils & sways. One of the best modifications I've done to the car, the phenomenon of side stepping is gone. I never liked the feeling of power on in a turn when the pavement was rough......just hold the wheel it will be fine.
I'm also in the silly rear wheel power, the suspension improvements make the car. It feels like a go cart, front is planted on the brakes, the rear is in perfect control power on. Never any side stepping or shake, the suspension makes the car.
So I will respectfully disagree with you guys on the comments regarding a weekend warrior, mine is full on. I'm not sure if the ride of my set up is any firmer of well setup stock deal, my only comparison is my near stock C6 Z51 with Pfadt shocks. It is slightly stiffer than that, it is softer spring rates than Z06 I believe.
