Andrew

Is it possible to get 500 rwhp na and stock cubes? Would like to keep it streetable as well. Budget not a concern. If possible what is the recipe?

janky

If you want that much power to really be streetable, you'll want to be running well over 346ci.

Street Approved

Someone made a thread on who they got over 500 N/A. Ive been following the build and all im.missing is the clutch and mast heads. Ill try to find the thread

NosLaser

With stock cubes you will need rpm. Your powerband will be such that low end driveability would necessarily suffer, but I'd say it is possible.

TXGS507

I'd say no..... Unless you want something that you would hate to drive on the hwy... 500 to the wheels w your 346 NA is not a realistic number imo.....

for those who "claim" to make those numbers, I say post em along w supporting mods.

robz

It's doable.
If you want it perfectly streetable then you need to spend the money and take a very detailed approach to every part of the build. Most people don't want to believe it's possible because they are just not willing to spend the coin because it's not practical for most.

My H/C street car setup years ago would make 500+ on a dynojet and was perfectly streetable.

Now I have a cam only setup (unported 243 heads) in a drag race setup and I bet it makes around 500whp dynojet. The car is sorted out and efficient with attention to detail in all aspects. Drive ability on this setup is not important to me.

I'd consider consulting and using someone like Tony Mamo for a build like this. It won't be cheap but you are guaranteed quality and results.

etekberg

I say don't even bother; throw in an LS3. Easy to get 500 rwhp out of an LS3.

radar502

A friend got 98 Corvette LS-1 with Nove small cam headers auto 536 RWHP street ride he drove it over the US in it went about 22,000 miles before head gasket went but very street able ride easy driver stock bore .. The problem is not the 500HP it's the trans clutch rear holding together .. He went through 3 trans .. Heck my LS-6 just made 440 RWHP with cam ported heads headers ETC. With a little more work could got 500 easy ..

95rtturbo

Search for the user Toque... He has a stock cubed, C5Z NA setup with a tad over 470 to the tires. I would just replicate his setup.

FourG63 97GST

Christian did it years ago on stock bottom end. some of the links dead now, but the recipe should be in there still
That build isn't for everyone, takes alot of detail, the average joe should just get a blower

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...1rwhp-fti.html

zdeckich

How you making 500whp with a cam only and stock heads? Id like to know the other mods if you don't mind sharing. Thanks.

tlove32

It's possible with the right combination of parts and attention to detail

radar502

Making 500HP NOT easy, possible I said easy not so easy ,need big heads a very good cam all the rest Headers bigger injectors and on and on..Just install blower and 150 HP more no problem ..

Z06 Zephyr

yes, new heads (AFR), cam, longtubes, fast, 42cc injectors, and vararam will sit you a smidge under 500wheel with a 6 speed. (ls6 block-shouldn't matter however) Mine is plently streetable.

janky

And if you take the motor up to a 383 and you can make the 500whp without resorting to an overly peaky cam or too-slow port speeds at low RPM.

Even better, build out an LS2 stroker and 500whp becomes fairly mundane @ 402+ ci. These builds make more power everywhere while retaining the natural performance dynamics the LS engine is known for. It's not really an engine designed to rev high and hard, it's engineered to be a torque monster.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

I have posted so much on this topic it would be probably faster to look for what I have already written and just copy and paste....LOL

Bottom line, its very possible but as others have already alluded to, very challenging as well.

Perhaps a better answer (less vague) would be it requires a very detailed, well thought out combination that requires hitting all the details to get there (some of these details not engine related), and ordering the right components to achieve this goal. Also, you must consider every obstruction of airflow from the CAI to the tip of the muffler extensions and everything in between, as well as the weight of your clutch, wheels and tires....anything that can effect parasitic loss in a negative way. Everything selected must be optimized to work together.....also very important if you really want to succeed....that's where the help of an experienced professional is invaluable.

Here is proof positive its achievable....In 2005, a long time ago, my C5 dyno'ed on a half a dozen different chassis dyno's ultimately generating an average of 475 - 480 RWHP (lowest was 470....highest was 483). Accomplished at the time with stock AFR 205 heads that I had just finished designing, and a baby 224/228 camshaft. I swapped headers, clutches, different valvetrain and induction packages to ultimately get there but I did get reasonably close to 500 in a package that drove like stock. Truth be told I never expected to see 500....my goal at the time was 475 which while even by today's standards is still impressive, a decade ago (regardless of cam size), that was a huge number.....and of course getting there with a 224 cam made it that much sweeter but it took literally a year of refining and tweaking the combo to reach.

Lets move forward a decade to a combo I didn't even build....just spec'ed all the parts and prepped the heads. Better heads, slightly more cam (only a 227 intake lobe)....we netted almost 490 RWHP

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...fied-99-a.html

For the guys that dont have the time to read the details in that thread, here is the sexy dyno curve from that build. Super flat torque curve that carries extremely well



While that combo had most of the parts required, it was never intended to be a 500 RWHP combo or I would have cammed it a little more aggressively and he should have had larger 1.875 headers if we were really targeting 500. Also, that had a "Mamofied" (hand finished) AFR 215 on it.....my latest and greatest design now marketed under my own MMS brand (Mamo Motorsports) is a 220 cc head that flows a little more than a reworked AFR 215 right out of the box and a hand finished MMS 220 can push that advantage a little further.

My new heads, ideally hand finished, a properly ported 102, the right valvetrain, headers, CAI, clutch, and a cam around 230 degrees or so would get there or close enough to lie about it while still having great street manners.

Inexpensive to build....anything but.....fun and rewarding to drive.....you bet. Jack loved that car featured above and while it would rip your face off to 7000 RPM's it was still fine putting around town at 1500.

My point is this, while the combo above I hypothetically laid out might go 500 on some dyno's, on others it may only roll 493....the dyno and thr tune and the facility itself all a big variable here.

Would flycutting and camming it deeper help our cause.....sure....that would make this highly efficient combination see 500 on all but the stingiest of dyno's but the fun factor cruising around might not be as good cause it will be a much more peaky engine having to be spun to at least 4500 or so before the real power presented itself.

Some people want a number and don't realize it comes with trade offs....I say build the most power you can while also keeping an eye on the rest of the curve. The price you pay for the last 10-15 extra ponies isn't worth it in my book but that is up to the end user. If its a car barely driven and it just rolls out for some Friday night street race action and the occasional dragstrip, sure it makes more sense to consider getting more aggressive but I find most people are looking for a little more "balance" in their Vette combinations.

Either way if you are fortunate enough to have the wallet to take on a project as detailed as what we are discussing, I'm confident I can spec and build you something you would love. In fact here is another recent customer of mine that invested a good bit of money in his F-Body with a complete engine package I designed for him. Keep in mind folks this is a 1.75 header in an F-Body, which never dyno as well as Vettes due to the poor exhaust routing.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...host-hawk.html

He made mid 470's with a really heavy clutch and a poor exhaust. He is switching to true duals now and an RPS clutch I'm helping him with that's 20 lbs lighter. I bet with the new larger 1.875 true duals and the new clutch, even with his super user friendly 227 cam I helped him with, this F-Body should roll 490+ to the tire....which is very substantial (that's knocking on 500 with the same engine in a C5 or C6). He has the benefit of my new MMS 220 heads also.

It can be done....it takes a serious commitment, the right money, the right parts, and a detail oriented approach to the build and the tune.

If any of you reading this feel you have "the right stuff" I just mentioned, I would love to work with you and help you achieve it. Swinging for the fences is always makes for a fun project!

Sorry for the long post but I hope you guys took something away from reading it that can help. Its a meaningful pursuit (the elusive 500 RWHP mark), but just like an average mountain climber wouldn't casually decide to climb the tallest mountain, this post should serve as a wake up call that you had better be committed if there is even a remote chance you will come close.

The last thing I will say related to this topic is consider scaling back your goals a little if all of this is too overwhelming (or pricey)....making 450-475 RWHP is still quite an accomplishment and its typically thousands cheaper cause you can leave all those "nickel and dime" HP mods (that cost alot more than nickels and dimes!!) on the table and just get the basic recipe right with good heads, a ported intake, getting the valvetrain right so you have good valve control, an efficient exhaust system etc., etc.



Cheers,
Tony

PS....Here is a link to a thread I started awhile ago on my new MMS 220 heads for those not familiar

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...on-inside.html

dbgoodwin

That torque curve is unreal for a 346 making that much power

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Looks like an electric motor there for a while its so flat.....LOL

All my builds focus on efficiency.....increasing the VE output of the engine. The better the heads, valvetrain, and induction/exhaust are the less cam duration you require to make big power....and the by product of that is an engine that's just explosive everywhere.....very fun to drive.

I could make an argument that as far as a balanced overall curve goes, the set-up highlighted above (with the exception of the larger tube headers missing), borders on perfection....zero trade offs. Even that bump to a low 230 duration cam makes the bottom end and responsiveness a little soggier....you will pay a small penalty to join the 500 club with the larger cams but I'm splitting hairs as even that would drive a ton better than some of the combo's making 40 HP less.

OP....if your listening and truly have the budget for the goodies discussed, I'm convinced a C5Z with a 1.875 and a 229 camshaft (medium sized at best by today's standards) can hit the 500 club if enough care is taken in the assembly process and tune. And it would be an all around awesome ride....still logging 20+ MPG on the freeway and very user friendly with decent low end TQ, really solid midrange, and from 5K up incredibly strong....pulling like a freight train to 7200 or so optimal shift points. Peak power would be very flat from 6500-6900 and slooowly rolling over after that.

Who's game?!

Andrew

Thanks everyone for the great discussion. For clarity, this is not a dyno queen build. Will probably not ever see a dyno as my tuner only fine tunes while on the street for optimal and safe A/F. Also, if it is never on a dyno, if asked about mods and power level, the old racer response can be used of "just heads / cam and I don't know the power". "Plausible deniability". This is also the reason for not having a blower as I want everything to appear on the surface as stock. IMHO, the proving ground is drivability on the street, ET / mph on the strip and how long the motor can safely maintain high revs for top speed runs - not stationary, spinning on a dyno. Probably preaching to the choir here. LOL...

Also not looking for 500 on the dot. As Tony mentioned, looking for a very strong, flat torque curve. Not that interested in spinning it out to 6k before seeing a high - peak HP number at the cost of no torque below 2500. Been there - done that...

Tony, how much are your MMS 220 hand finished heads? Are the unfinished heads still $2650? What is the expected peak torque and at what rpm? What is the average torque between 1500 and 6000 rpm? Please PM me if you needed.

Thanks again everyone. Lots of info to chew on.

TXGS507

Toque is a good friend of mine and we actually run together from time to time... I will tell you that his 04 C5Z is a BEAST for a stock cub'd 347...
AFR 205's, G5X1E cam, FAST 92, and supporting mods got him to 477 to the wheels....