[Z06] High copper on oil analysis: Q for LS6 engine experts...
#1
Burning Brakes
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High copper on oil analysis: Q for LS6 engine experts...
This LS6 engine has a knocking noise when hot. It was diagnosed as a defective wrist pin (it may be piston slap). Oil analysis info:
Make up quarts: 1.5 (the filter was changed a few hundred miles after the oil change (to a UPF44) to see if the engine noise would change (accounts for some of the make up oil)). Oil is the new Mobil 1 (Anti-wear formula).
Engine experts: what is your evaluation?
Make up quarts: 1.5 (the filter was changed a few hundred miles after the oil change (to a UPF44) to see if the engine noise would change (accounts for some of the make up oil)). Oil is the new Mobil 1 (Anti-wear formula).
Engine experts: what is your evaluation?
#3
Get Some!
Re: High copper on oil analysis: Q for LS6 engine experts... (johnC5)
This is just a wild butt guess, but with a knock and copper my guess would be be a bad con-rod bearing. The only copper in the engines is in the bearings, right? Also, the knock of con-rod bearing knock could be mistaken for a bad wrist pin, either way something has happened it seems.
Do an oil analysis search in the tech section, there are some guys that do it.
[Modified by CPT Z06, 10:18 AM 6/28/2003]
Do an oil analysis search in the tech section, there are some guys that do it.
[Modified by CPT Z06, 10:18 AM 6/28/2003]
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Burning Brakes
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Re: High copper on oil analysis: Q for LS6 engine experts... (CPT Z06)
This is just a wild butt guess, but with a knock and copper my guess would be be a bad con-rod bearing. The only copper in the engines is in the bearings, right? Also, the knock of con-rod bearing knock could be mistaken for a bad wrist pin, either way something has happened it seems.
Do an oil analysis search in the tech section, there are some guys that do it.
[Modified by CPT Z06, 10:18 AM 6/28/2003]
Do an oil analysis search in the tech section, there are some guys that do it.
[Modified by CPT Z06, 10:18 AM 6/28/2003]
I'll do a search for more oil analysis. Thanks for the tip, Todd. :cheers:
#5
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Re: High copper on oil analysis: Q for LS6 engine experts... (CPT Z06)
Found this thread http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=575704 :
From Patman:
VetteNuts
After looking through the following links, LSx's appear to run high copper until higher mileage. 18 Iron in 3600 miles with 1.5 make up quarts OK? (given above comment about 23 Iron in 6000 miles):
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000286
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000138
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000220
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000116
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000161
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=000189
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000180
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000004
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=000074
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000076
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000022
[Modified by johnC5, 1:36 AM 6/28/2003]
Aluminum 5
Chromium 1
Iron 23
Copper 3
Lead 7
Tin 1
Molebdenum 71
nickel 1
Manganese 1
silicon 8
sodium 10
sus viscosity 63.1
flashpoint 395
Chromium 1
Iron 23
Copper 3
Lead 7
Tin 1
Molebdenum 71
nickel 1
Manganese 1
silicon 8
sodium 10
sus viscosity 63.1
flashpoint 395
23ppm of iron in 6000 miles is about twice as high as it should be, although if you drove in any extremely cold weather during this interval, don't worry about that number, as it'll be lower in the summer. Iron numbers tend to be high during the wintertime. The lead wear of only 7ppm in 6k is very good for a hard driven car, this shows the bearings are getting good protection. Copper of only 3ppm is excellent for an LS1, but proves that once these engines are fully broken in, the copper is low. When new you'll often see as much as 200ppm in a 3000 mile interval! It usually doesn't come down to a low level until after 40 or 50k.
You should try an interval with the K&N oil filter to see if your numbers come down. I'd be a bit worried about those iron numbers if you didn't see cold weather.
You should try an interval with the K&N oil filter to see if your numbers come down. I'd be a bit worried about those iron numbers if you didn't see cold weather.
Here is a link to my first analysis using a Mobil-1 filter and Amsoil 5W-30. About the same mileage as you. My car didn't see cold weather, and my iron is about half of yours. However, note my copper This is typical of the LS-1 and the theory I have seen is it is the center cam bearing wearing in. The copper typically drops by around 20K miles.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000286
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000138
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000220
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000116
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000161
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=000189
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000180
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000004
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=000074
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000076
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000022
[Modified by johnC5, 1:36 AM 6/28/2003]
#7
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Re: High copper on oil analysis: Q for LS6 engine experts... (CPT Z06)
Here's your answer
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/kb/q....php?qstId=378
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/kb/q....php?qstId=378
#8
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Re: High copper on oil analysis: Q for LS6 engine experts... (CPT Z06)
So the high cooper is normal, but what about the knock?
As for the knock, it was isolated to one cylinder, creating the theory of a defective wrist pin. It does not appear to be an aeration issue. There is another TSB on cold+hot engine knock that requires the replacement of all eight pistons (more closely matches this car's symptoms).
Looks like the only way to find out for sure is to disassemble the engine and see what's going on.
Thanks for the tips, guys. :cheers:
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Re: High copper on oil analysis: Q for LS6 engine experts... (johnC5)
Just got more info regarding the copper level (from the oil analysis company): it could be from the wrist pin. They advised to keep an eye on it (given the wrist pin noise).