Vet

Trying to figure out the best type of fire exinguisher to keep in my C6. I just did a lot of general searching on the internet and found a lot of contradicting articles.

Seems that "halon" is no longer in production. Halon is supposedly good because it will not corrode, but apparently it does not offer the best fire surpression. But from what I read, it was taken off the market due to "dangerous" gasses released during temperature changes. Perhaps this is only an issue if one is indoors (and thus not as much an issue for automotive use which is primarily outdoors)? Seems that you can still buy halon, but if it's out of production, I'd rather not deal with it.

Then there's the halon replacement, "halotron" (or in some cases spelled "halatron". Supposedly offers the same non-corrosive properties of halon, but safer. However, one article claimed that halotron does also release bad gasses etc. Again, off all the general articles I found, many were contradictory. I won't even bother describing all the contradicting info I saw. I have not yet seen one article that designates a specific type extinguisher as "best for automotive use".

To my knowledge, there is no other easily obtainable type of extinguisher that is class A,B,C or B,C that is non-corrosive.

Bottom line, I just want to get a good non-corrosive type fire exinguisher (if possible) that is excellent for automotive use (class B,C mainly, class A,B,C even better).

Also, where the heck can you get extinguishers refilled? And I wonder what the cost of a refill is, especially for something like halotron? Maybe just as expensive as buying a whole new extinguisher...?

Here's a good question... has anyone here actually had to USE a halon or halotron extinguisher in an automotive fire? How did it work?

What is the shelf life of a typical halotron extinguisher? At over a hundred bucks for a small one, I'd hate to think that these need routine replacement every two years or whatever. Hopefully they are set and forget, as long as the pressure reading looks good.

And finally... what size extinguisher would be recommended for automotive use? I realize that the amount needed is somewhat dependant on the TYPE of agent in the extinguisher. I am thinking of using maybe one or two 1.5 pound units. (A 2.5 pound unit might be too big to conveniently fit inside the car - ?)

Anything can happen, but from what I've read, the most common types of fires that have occured in the C6 have been oil releated... either brake fluid or PS fluid hitting the exhaust and igniting. I'd like to be prepared if this were to ever occur. I've heard TOO many stories about people losing their cars when they could have been saved with minimal damage if only an extinguisher was available.

easyrider13

Fire is highly corrosive.
If you have a fire, you want to extinguish it quickly. My choice for general automotive use would be a BC rated dry chemical fire extinguisher. If you have a fire, it will make a mess but it will do its job efficiently.
Avoid "A" rated extinguishers. The powder in these extinguishers can melt on hot surfaces and will be much harder to clean.

Buffy

Halon is available; it's very expensive due to the tax on ozone-depleting CFCs. It's mainly used for very sensitive, valuable and / or irreplacable items such as rare books or paintings or areas where people cannot be evacuated like air traffic control centers or large computer rooms.

There are actually several Halons for different purposes, 1301 is the most common but 1211 might be better for automotive use. I'd be a bit suspicious of anything that sounds like "Halon" that doesn't have DuPont's name on it.

In any case, gas extinguishers like Halon or C02 aren't usually as good outdoors as dry chemical types. The dry chemicals aren't usually that messy, at least compared to the damage done by a fire.

A general-purpose BC dry chemical unit or two should serve just fine. I'd go with the 5lb-rated units, which are usually smaller than 5 lb. One should fit behind each seat very nicely, or you could look for a unit that would fit into the storage wells in the back of the coupe. If you get a fire that 2 5lb-rated BC extinguishers won't put out just stand well back and call your insurance agent.

Gearhead Jim

Halon is something like freon- not being produced in the U.S. anymore but still available from recycled sources. Availabilty will continually go down and price will continually go up. How much that is a factor right now, I don't know.

There are also several different types of halon, with certain advantages and disadvantages. The experts can chime in on that.

Using halon on a fire does produce some gasses that may be a concern, but so does the fire itself. I don't plan on using ANY entinguisher inside an closed space and then staying there.

Dry chem is very effective but can do as much damage as the fire itself- it tends to clog or corrode electrical relays and contacts. The local racing store stopped carrying dry chem extinguishers after the owner used one to put out a minor engine fire on a Porsche- the abrasive/corrosive effects of the dry chem were so bad that the engine, undamaged by fire, had to be rebuilt.

Nothing is 100%, my choice is a small (about 15" long) halon.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.

mlongo99

Ask the guys over in the Autocrossing & Roadracing section. I'm sure they'll have good info for you too.

wachuko

I went with an Amerex Halotron 2.5# unit for both cars...

You really want something that will not cause additional damage to the engine and wiring. If you go with the regular extinguishers you will end up with more damage (if you get to the fire on time) from the extinguisher than from the fire... the corrosion that results from common extinguishers is horrendous. I have seen the damage in Porsche 944/951 caused by this.

Halon was great. Now with the control on those units the alternative is the Halotron.

Yacht Captain

The way it was explained to me was that once you match the type and size of the fire you want to put out to the extinquisher then it was all a matter of cost.

There is no mess with the halon types. The others not only leave a mess but can do damage themselves with whats come out. To clean up the mess is a big deal. Halon types no mess other than what the fire itself causes. Someone once said to me that if the turkey was on fire in the mniddle of the table and you used a halon type you could put the fire out and then sit down and still eat the bird.

From what I understand the halon types work by depleting and eliminating the oxygen supporting the fire. No ox no fire. Very dangerous to be in the room /car etc when the halon goes off. Try to breath with no ox avialable.

I have several(5) halon types in my small yacht. True they are expensive but they do work and don't do more damage than putting the fire out. Shop around, the Halon types can be bought right. my 2C

Gearhead Jim

My wife once set our stove on fire while grilling the steaks. A quick shot of halon put out the fire and the steaks were delicious!

Wouldn't want to try that with dry chem...

vettedan

Below is a link to an Amerex video on information about Halontron 1 fire extinguishers.

http://www.vetteworksonline.com/videos/Amerex_WS.mov

Dan
www.vetteworksonline.com

rosemaryburm

What about dispersal problems outdoors? How close to the flames do you have to get in a 5/10/15mph wind to put enough halon/halotron on the fire to put the thing out? I understand the best thing is probably to apply suppressant to the engine bay from the windshield cowling area, underneath, or up through the front intakes, but I think most people would pop the hood first thing.

b4i4getit

By the time you notice you have an underhood fire you may already have sustained some major damage. Thats why we have insurance. You may be better off letting it melt into a nice big pile of plastic so that you can get a new one.

Force-1

Halotron Fire Extinguisher

BigJoe

Get out the marshmallows.

ufso

Wow, a whole lot of info, but here's some more.

Dry chem is the best to use, that's what we use, always have. Halon, if in a greater percentage of 7% in an enclosed room will cause unconsciousness and then death because of lack of O2. I know first hand, I and 3 others almost bought the farm.

A stands for paper, cloth, etc. B stands for flammable liquids, C stands for conductivity or electrical and D stand for solids. The best to get is ABC. We require that for refueling vehicles, dispensing gas and diesel.

Dry chem is a chain breaking extinguisher, taking out one of the points of the triangle...oxygen, leaving heat and fuel.

The only story I know of Halon not working in a fire was 10-15 years ago when that large jet set down on the small commuter plane that was getting ready to taxi for take off, using the same runway as the large plane at LAX.

A firefighter had invented a drill that could penetrate the skin of the plane and then discharge halon into the cabin, thus, extinguishing the fire.

Remember, those large fire trucks spraying all that foam over the plane is actually not doing that, it's making a fire free corridor for the occupants to escape. The engine companies are for the interior firefighting.

When that large plane landed on the small one and drug it down the runway, the small plane (everyone was killed) tore thru the bottom of the large plane and ignited the O2 that was stored there. This created an immense and fierce fire in the large plane, being feed by the O2.

This fire, in turn, burned thru the floor and killed all the occupants above it. The plane's wheels collapsed and then it skidded into an abandoned fire station at the side of the runnway, which of course, stopped it dead!

The front gear of the large plane was sheared off and the plane was now low to the ground. The front of the plane was laddered by us and that Halon extinguisher was used. It didn't work, it was expelled into the air and was useless.

So, in closing, I'd go with the dry chem, who cares about the damage, you have insurance. It's best to learn how to use one, if you can't, then let it burn but stay away. Some of the plastics (including your bed) give off hydrogen cyanide, bad stuff... isn't that what they kill you with at San Quentin!

Oh, cars don't blowup like in the movies, if they did, we'd all have been killed a long time ago!

gota07

In my opinion you should be getting advice of this type from professionals. Since ufso qualifies, I would take his advice, but beyond that I would contact your local fire department to get professional advice.

Vet

Thanks for all the info!

Regarding the above quote, I do have one main concern about halon now.

Let's say you're in your car and a halon extinguisher is located in the passenger compartment (I'm sure you've all seen the nifty extinguisher brackets offered for Vettes that clip to the front seat rails). Now, let's say you're driving along and for some unusual reason the extinguisher were to either start discharging by itself, or perhaps the little pressure gauge breaks and creates a big leak, etc... now you're enclosed in the very small cockpit of the Vette, windows up, with halon being emitted at a fast rate. Per the above quote, this would be a serious disaster. The occupant(s) might pass out before being able to throw the exinguisher out the window, and would then die, either from the lack of 02 or from hitting a tree at 70 mph.

Would you say that this above disaster scenario is realistic? Can and do exinguishers randomly malfunction, leak, burst, etc? Does extreme heat or extreme cold (as experienced inside a car) effect the extinguisher, making it more likely to possibly leak, break, burst?

If the answer to the questions in the above paragraph is yes, then carrying a halon extinguisher in your cockpit would seem like an extremely dangerous idea.

But, I must be overlooking something because if it were so dangerous, why would halon exinguishers be sold specifically to carry in the cokpits of vehicles?

If a dry chem extinguisher suddenly unloads in the cockpit of your Vette while you're inside, how dangerous would that be (in terms of air quality and/or other health dangers due to the contents)?

Boy, I never knew this extinguisher thing would be so complicated. I guess most people just go to the local hardware store and get a cheap dry chem and they're done.

What spooks me about dry chem though is the damage it causes. I know all you guys say "let the insurance company fix the car", but it reality, that does not work too well. Insurance companies don't like to pay out, you always get screwed in the end. Plus, I love my car... I'd REALLY hate to wreck the entire engine / electronics over one small brake fluid fire that may have been nearly harmless by itself.

I have experienced a few very small oil fires underhood in my day (other people's cars in other people's garages)... both fires went out before extinguishers could be located, no damage was done. Yes, very minor and very lucky. But if I had blasted those engines with dry chem, I guess I would have done maybe thousands of dollars of damage. In those specific lucky cases, it's actually a GOOD thing that a dry chem extinguisher was not readily available!

This is why I'm still on the fence... I know the day I have a fire it may be a small minor thing, and the dry chem is going to be the main reason the car gets severely damaged. It's a real catch-22.

For a small brake fluid fire underhood, I'd think that a halotron extinguisher would probably do the job adequately from everything else I've read. We're not talking about a commercial jet plane carrying literately tons of highly volitile fuel or 02, etc... but a relatively small amount of brake fluid, shrouded from wind by the engine bay. If halon works at all, it should be able to handle such a situation pretty well.

But I am concerned now about carrying halon or halotron inside the cockpit, especially if it would mean possible DEATH if the stuff ever discharged by itself inside the cockpit with the windows up.

I had a dry chem exinguisher go off by itself inside the trunk of my Monte Carlo last year... still don't know how or why, all I know is that I opened the trunk one day and there was white powder all over the place. Disgusted, I threw it out and did not replace.

All this and I'll probably never have a fire.

Yacht Captain

You are right about them going off accidentally although I haven't seen or heard of one. They better ones ie Halon types have better rings and then plastic keepers. The mounting brackets are also much better with metal straps versus plastic types. If you position them in such a way that you are not likely to get them caught on anything I would say the likelyhood of a halon type going off by itself is very slim.

The halon ones on my boat have gone through outright slamming that you would never see in car with no issues. Not given them a thought at all.

I'm going to put a small halon type in my Z06. Finding the right place to mount it would be the only concern.

If a large fire breaks out I doubt you would stick around long enough to use anything. Isn't that what insurance is for?

ufso

I will clarify about the Halon and the 7%. There are different types of Halon for different uses. The one we encountered was used for computer equipment. Around 25-35 large containers, about the size of baskerballs, all containing Halon, discharged their contents at the same time, filling the room...remember, you can't see it or smell it

We were in this large room for a good 20 minutes, trying to find out why all these large containers discharged at the same time before our voices started to sound like we were talking super slow and very deep, like a record slowed down. At that point, we knew something was wrong, and evacuated the room immediately. Afterwards, thru the NFPA, we discovered that over 7% discharge of Halon will cause unconciousness. We had a form of high alititude sickness...a lack of oxygen.

I've never heard of an extinguisher discharging violently. They leak very slowly, that's why it has a guage. When serviced (discharged or leaking), it is done by hand and companies are listed in the phone book under "Fire Protection."

If an dry chem extinguisher goes off, it's like a bag of flour being broken open...it gets everywhere. It is caustic to computer equipment, that's why it's not used.

We don't use Co2 because the container is so damn heavy. A 5 lb. container weighs as much as a 2A20BC extinguisher. A 10 lb. is huge.

I, personally have never carried an extinguisher in my car. Out of the hundreds and hundreds of auto fires I've been to, I've only used an extinguisher a few times...but water works better, we have it in plentuiful supply.

The extinguishers that I have seen in cars have always been Halon, I'd go with that, if that's what everyone is using. It's in a small bottle for use in an emergency to get a quick knockdown of the fire. If you don't have something, then nature takes it course and you have a meltdown.

I'm willing to bet that I won't need one and that's why I don't carry one. Watch, tomorrow I'll wish I had one.

Buffy

A very good point. The dry chemical extingushers are cheap enough that you can blow a couple for practice, and at least know what to expect when you pull the trigger. I wouldn't be likely to use up a couple of $200 extinguishers practicing!

shopdog

A friend of mine found an extinguisher along side the road. He picked it up and put it in the cab of his truck. It then proceeded to fail explosively as he was driving off. The valve struck his wife, breaking her jaw. Powder filled the cab. He was able to stop, and they evacuated the truck without further incident. His wife is healing, and he was able to clean the powder out of the truck cab, but it is a sobering warning that these things can be dangerous.