TommyDeVito

I found a local used M3, 2003, 24k miles with 100k, 6 year warranty and I wanted to take it for a spin. I have driven a MCoupe (2001 or 2002 model) extensively and I had previously driven a M3 on a CAR and Driver test driver day....but that was only 2 gears around a chinzy coned course where the lap was less than a minute.

Anyway. We drive to the Bimmer dealership where a close friend knows a salesman. The car is in good shape except for some curbing on some of the rims which he says he will definitely take care of....
The M3 was certified so the warranty lasts 3 more years or 100k miles. I think the sale price will be right at 38k, which isn't a bad deal.

The salesman throws me the keys and we are off. First thing I notice in the parking lot is the seat adjustment. Wow! I'm 6'2" and this is the first sportscar where I could instantly find a very comfortable seating position. In fact, it's the only sportscar I have ever driven where I had to move the seat back forward after going to the most extended/outward position. I am still amazed at the comfort level while driving. Man was that seating position sweet, total comfort. Especially coming from a guy who owns a S2000 I grab a CD out of my truck and we are off. The Harmon system sounds solid, especially with the sub button turned on. I ease it out and get to some twisty bits where I get to accelerate briskly. This car needs to be revved but once in the middle of the tach it starts eating up the tarmac. The DBW is pretty good and heaps better than the MCoupe I drove previously that had the Dinan software.
I take it through some low speed turns and the feedback is great. The car felt planted and solid, yet light on its' feet if that makes any sense. It was hot, 91 degrees and the A/C was killer, worked flawlessly. I had taken some turns with the sport mode on so I launched onto the highway in 2nd gear and upshifted to 5th through the gears. I cruised for 5 miles with the sport mode on then turned it off for another 5. This car was very highway cruiser friendly. I could have my morning Red Bull driving triple digits with nary a worry. (I wouldn't do this though, just making a point.) I threw the sport mode back on and merged onto another highway, accelerating at 60% throttle and getting it up to 80MPH through the turn onto the next highway. It handled the curve well at high speed but I did notice the car digging into the turn so to speak and I could feel the beginning limits of the envelope. It felt light but was really having to work at it.

I was really impressed with the driver seating position. Even the new 330i Sedan I drove sucked in comparison as it's not tall man friendly. The car felt very light on its' feet and only once did I feel like I was really pushing the car. But I did feel like it could have taken the high speed turn much better. We get back to the dealership after about a 30 minute test drive and open her up. Engine looks great, rear seat folds down (which is good because it will be my only vehicle) and I'm overall impressed with it.

Next was onto the Chevy dealership to drive my 3rd C6. Found a Z51 optioned MN6 and after some cackling back and forth with a saleman they let me drive it after getting mgr. approval. Salesman was quick to point out that it was brand new (4 miles on the ODO) and that he didn't want to go over 3k on the tach but would turn the cheek if I wanted to go past that. I decided not to in the end because this was going to be some guy/gal's dream car and I wasn't going to stomp on it despite getting told I could do so. The salesman went on to mention this whole thing on the test drive again, that potential buyers don't want miles on the car. I explained that I would get on it but wouldn't abuse the break in period in any way. Throughout the test drive I didn't go over a 50% throttle stomp and short shifted at around 3100-3200 RPM's.

Seating position in the Vette isn't as good for me. I had the seat in the most rearward position. Slid it back all the way then leaned the seat back all the way to the maximum. It definitely felt a little more claustrophobic after driving the M3. More cockpit like which I like but I have to remind myself that this will be my DD. Vette felt heavier but was more planted to the ground. After driving the M3 back to back, the Vette felt a lot heavier and generally not as light on its' feet as the M3. In the Vette's defense it was solidly planted. It would have taken the high speed turn earlier without batting an eye to it, easily! Acceleration wise, down low (no WOT or going to redline) it felt immensely more powerful. Even as low as 3k RPM's, I felt like I had just clipped off a dragon's *******. I could feel that engine starting to get very riled up. No comparison in that respect. I just didn't get that comfort right off the bat as I did with the earlier car.

As far as storage space, won't need it other than picking up the groceries and the occasional trip to Costco. I have managed with the S2000 so I would manage just fine with the Vette. I do have a truck but that will be history soon (hopefully) so I am really trying to think about this long and hard. One thing I found cool about the M3 is that it is a sleeper car, at least to me. It doesn't draw near the attention and I'm not a flashy person. When driving I would rather people leave me be save for a Vette owner flashing the wave which I would return the courtesy

So driving positon: M3
Power: Vette
Cost: 38k for a used M3 vs. 42k for a Vette with only Z51, advantage Vette
Sleeper factor: M3, less attention. To me that means less attention by law enforcement, haters, and idiots. This could be beneficial should I have to drive it to work sometime.

Comparing mfr. to mfr. Well let's just say that the Chevy dealership I went to, well I do not want to offend but the salesman were hacks at best, felt very what word should I use not to offend? Very low rent I guess. The first salesman admittedly was young, and had only worked there for a month and stated this was his first Vette test drive. 2nd salesman was very ahh nevermind, I'm not here to insult. BMW in comparison felt very educated and professional. From suits and/or ties earlier in the day to chevy Polo shirts I'm not into any of that it's all about the car IMHO just thought I would mention it. I have never owned a BMW and the stereotypes are just that. I don't drive anything based on the presence that comes with it or what other people think, it's all about the drive, gearhead at heart. The BMW idealogy doesn't steer me toward it in any regard. And this Chevy dealership I went to just happened to be close to the BMW dealership and not the salesman who I have been speaking with on and off over the last few months. He is a Chevy guy and really knows his chit and is everybit as professional as any salesman I've come across in many years of buying these things from expensive to economy cars over the years. If anything he is more blue collared type of person and I like that very much as he seems down to earth and honest. Many of the people that I've met over the years that are wealthy posess the same trait, down to Earth despite their financial gains in life.

AT the end of the day the price difference is the main point here for me. The M3 was so damn comfortable but having to rev it up to get the power out of it means less MPG because I could be short shifting in the Vette and getting better mileage because I won't have to stomp on it. Besides that used vs. new, etc. The Vette, to me, isn't as comfortable but no car is perfect, it's all about tradeoffs. The styling, power, and everything besides the sleeper factor and comfort goes to the Vette. The Vette also has something I have never owned, well a couple of things, mind blowing power (enough for me I don't need a damn Z06 for anything) and a removeable top. I won't take the top off much but it's like having a fixed roof vehicle with some air if I want

The Z51 transplants road irregularities to the cabin more so than the M3 but I'm used to that with my current car so no big deal there. I have made my decision today and look forward to driving off the lot with one. I'm in the process of selling some vehicles to make way and hoping I get all this taken care of and ready by the time a C6 MN6 Z51 gets here in 4 weeks that is slotted for me should I be ready. God willing, I'll be in one next month sometime

OregonC6

well, those educated and professional BMW salespeople all get their money from customers who pay ( IMO ) far more than the cars are worth. Try a MB dealership....the ties are even better there.....and you pay for them as well.

I'd rather deal with a high school dropout and save money than have some kind of feeling of parity with a car salesman...I wish the big box discount stores sold automobiles and we could cut out the fat of salespeople altogether. None of them no matter the make of car add a dimes worth of value to the transaction.

just my opinion.

my further opinion is the BMW has accomplished the most brilliant marketing coup ever pulled off in the auto industry......that is ( IMO ) getting people to pay twice as much for a car as it is worth simply by repeating over and over the bit about it being the ultimate.......etc.

Around here bimmers of all sorts are as common as toyotas and , to me at least, look just about the same. I cannot fathom why people want to be seen in them or find them visually appealing. To me a nicely optioned Camry would be equivalent to most models.

TommyDeVito

Well I mean no offense to the Chevy brand, it had nothing to do with that.
That dealership just wasn't up to snuff. The other dealer I have spoken with is rock solid. And again, I meant no offense to anyone. I have never owned a BMW and as I eluded to their brand doesn't mean anything to me over anything else. The guy I dealt with there was just very knowledeable about the product and very professional. Having said that, they will not be getting my $ and I will be buying a Chevrolet. Sorry if you took it the wrong way, that is not how I mean the post.

jnx911

Tommy, I see you are a man of very few words.

d_bravo33

Nice write up.

For some reason, I drive a 911 (this time a Cayman), bimmer and current Z every time I'm ready for a new sports car. Four times I've ended up with a Vette in my garage. Performance and value, I think. Not dealers.

cmurman

Just sold my '05 M3 last week to purchase my C6 Z51 MN6. M3 is a great car- Different from the Vette in many ways. Revs much higher. Nearly as quick as C6 in certain conditions but not as powerful. The Vette is more fun to own in my opinion. The seating position of the M3 is great as yoou mentioned. More like the C5. The C6 is much stronger and I prefer the transmission.

pennys58

I definately have to admit that you pay for the suits and ties...I did when I bought my wifes Mercedes. It was between the CKL500 and the M3. I didn't like either of them personally. I would compare them to watching Titanic with a bunch of buddies...I've driven her car 3 times...not my style. I find no comparision between the M3 and the Vette. My Vette isn't the cream of the crop, it's exactly what I wanted...power, handling, and style.

coolcamden

Here's what I've got to tell you.
I have a 2006 C6 MN6 Z51 coupe.
My wife has a 2005 M3 6MN
I had a Porsche 993, the last of the GREAT aircooled Porsches
I also have a MBZ E55 (not discussed here)
We have a SUV (not discussed here)
Our son has a WRX STi (not discussed here)

When I drove the P car, I felt like it was me. I could think of doing something and the car performed like it read my thoughts. I used to drive US280 (for the Bay Area forum members) a stretch of highway that's self proclaimed the most beautiful highway in the world. Passing through areas of houses that are $1.5M median price. People tend to "open up" on US280 between highway 92 and highway 85. In 4+ years of doing this commute, I only had a Viper, a Ferrari 360 challenge and a superbike passed me that I did not want to pass... In short, that car had no peer/fear.

The M3, whenever I could get it from my wife, is fine if you want a REALLY WELL PERFORMING SEDAN. It's fast, FEROCIOUS (that's a good word for it) and yet can be civil and behaving impeccably. An extremely fine automobile. (Not as fast as the E55, nor is can it measure to the C car, read below)

When I got the C car, I started wanting to go to race tracks. I inquired into Sears Point, Infinieon RaceWay, Laguna Seca... anything I can take the car to, in order to REALLY STRETCH ITS LEGS... I feel that I can never really drive the car to its limits in the city because, not only will that be LEGALLY ILLEGAL, it would be IMMORRAL. It's a kinda of car that compells that kind of feeling in me. It's unreal on the LIMIT POTENTIAL OF THIS CAR. I am certain that for a VERY good driver like me, and many on this forum, we can never wrench the last drop out of this automobile. It will continuously challenge and reward you. The more you drive it the more you like it. I find that I LOOK FOR REASONS to drive this car. (It's 1 of our 5 cars) and then when I come back from a drive, I want to go again.

Never felt like that with the P car or the M3.
BTW, I like the E55 more than the M3, even with a paddle shifter. It has ATTITUDE.

Now salespeople... I've had Chevrolet dealer people ignored me at first glance, and treated me like dirt, and MBZ dealer people being the nicest they could to me. Even our famous Los Gatos Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamboghini dealer people are very nice (although they want your SS# to run a credit check before a test drive :-) My philosophy is this... It's MY $50K- 90K, whatever... if you want it, treat me the way I want, or the other (name your brand) in the next town is going to get it.

shawn h.

I don't understand why so many comparisons to the M3

The M3 is a nice car, but it's really an entry level BMW that is modified by the factory, while the Corvette is a flagship vehicle w/a rich heritage & history. Plus I don't see too many people drooling when they see a M3(unless they are in their teens or 20's). While the Corvette receives so much looks south of Ferrari's, Lambo's.

Sure they both have similar prices, but it doesn't mean they should be compared so much. The fact is that Corvette's are very under-priced, while IMO, the M3 is about 20% over-priced. Plus if you experience both, you'll know that the Corvette is a much more substantial vehicle.

67 fastback

Tommy,

Once that you've been to a few drivers ed classes, you'll change your seat preferance.

I'm 6'1" The Vette has ample leg room.

One of my bosses drives a m-3 and he's always
w a y to back from the wheel to do any good
once that car slips from his control

Another Yellow

The BMW is not a sportscar. It's a sport coupe. I had one new, back in 2001. Nice car but definitely no Corvette.

adaca

I went through a little bit of that dilemma, but I was to some extent set on the Corvette.

http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=39

Some comments on my own experience

The BMW salesman told me to floor it on the onramp and feel the grip which I gladly obliged.
The Chevy salesman told me he had never sold a Corvette before and was fumbling with the buttons. He was making sure that I would test drive it like someone buying an Impala. And that's the largest Corvette dealer in the area. He was the nicer one of the two. The other man was quizing as if I didn't know what a sports car is.

On the seating position, I think a lot has to do with what you are used to. Unless it is clearly out of whack, you probably can get used to most cars after awhile. I spent a week in a Corolla with a tall seating position (seems to be designed for short people ). When I went back to the Subaru, I felt like sitting in a bathtub. That said, certain cars tend to be inherently more natural to most. BMWs tend to fall in that category for me, and being a sedan, it's probably something most people are more used to versus the low riding Corvette.

TommyDeVito

I went to drivers ed 17 years ago so you might have to refresh my memory

rpspa

I found the torque of the C6 astounding. get down in the rpms in an m3 and you're out of luck.
The M3 at 80mph is LOUD both tires and motor. Vette vert is serene, hard to tell the difference between 50 and 90( except stuff is happening much faster).
In the real world there is no comparison except the loss of two seats.

TommyDeVito

No offense but could you please give me a list of what I shouldn't and should compare here? I felt like test driving the M3 because I've never got to flog one to see what it's capable of and decided to drive the Vette back to back today. And through that I found some unexpected things about the car that I very much liked.

I'm not even concerned with the drool factor at all from other folks, it's really not a selling point for me. I mentioned this before. I agree with you on the M3's price, especially a new one. I also agree that the Vette is a more substantial vehicle and it is what I'm going to spend my hard earned $ on. Before I throw the $ down I wanted to be sure, damn sure.

As far as the rest goes. I read another thread where a guy posted a vs. type thread between these 2 cars and a few guys got flamed some for liking the M3 and pointing out the differences, etc so I should have known what I was in for. No worries though.

mlongo99

I think the comparisons are very valid. The cars are very close in price and are aimed at performance. The difference is the Corvette is very focused on performance, where the M3 is a small luxury car that is modified to perform well. They are for sports car buyers at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I entertained the thought of an M3 briefly, knowing that it cannot keep up with a Vette. I thought it would be a sacrifice to get a cheaper car. The moment I realized that an M3 would actually cost slightly more (not to mention higher insurance rates) than a Vette, I laughed and crossed it off my list. I knew I wanted a Vette anyway, planned on it for years, but figured I might as well see what a good alternative may be. Not suprisingly, nothing came close. So I guess you can tell what my priorities are.

racerx1909

The two vehicles, right or wrong, are similarly priced but worlds apart...I had a similar experience with the bmw dealership even to go so far as the first one I went to wouldn't let me test drive an m3. The salesman stated that "over 90% of new m3 buyers are current m3 owners" to which I questioned how you get that additional 10% without a test drive. Upon finally testing one, it was impressive...much in the way of a volvo s60r for a jetta-like car it is not nearly as kart-like a driving position/feel as the vette where you feel that you are sitting on the bmw but in the vette. I'm also 6'2" and the seat track is nearly at the limit. Interestingly, I have more headroom in my c6 than I had in my 02 z06. More of a distinction is the power. While the two may generate similar numbers as far as lap times, they get there in very different ways...In the end, it is a matter of preference

double eagle

Former BMW owner here. The M3 and C6 are both great cars. I had to choose between the two last year. A C6 is in my garage.

rckt

I test drove both cars also. M3 is nice if you want to bring the kids with ya but I prefer the C6

Seems to me the new member is from the BMW marketing dept

StanNH

I've owned 3 Bimmers...a 528, a Z3, and a Z4, all bought from the same dealership in Vermont. That BMW dealer was the absolute best car dealership I've ever dealt with. Excellent, professional sales staff, efficient service department, and a beautiful physical plant with a great waiting area for the customers. My Chevy dealer is very good, and I had the pleasure of working with a really good salesman and a caring service department. Physically, the building and waiting area is pretty basic.

Buying the C6 has nothing to do with any of this. The car sold itself...it's exactly what I wanted in looks, performance, and price. There was no BMW, or Porsche for that matter, since my BMW dealer also sells Porsche, that I could afford that was even close to the C6. This has been a decision that I have never regretted.