Dr Chill

I don't want to sound like a hater because I am a Vette guy and not a Porsche guy, but Porsche has the correct idea. Lets compare the C6 with the 911.

Base C6=Carrera
C6 vert=Carrera Cab
Z06=Carrera S with Carrera Power Kit ($17,000)
ZR1=Carrera Turbo
???=GT3
???=GT2

I think Chevy was misdirected in the design of the ZR1. What percentage of ZR1's will actually hit the track? 30%, maybe 40% at most-I suspect I'm overestimating and it's probably more like 20%. What the hell does a street car need carbon ceramic brakes and carbon fiber body panels? Also, the supercharged motor is less preferable for track abuse than bigger cubes N/A. The base Z06 is more than an adequate street car and has brakes appropriate for the street. Real track time demands better brakes than those on the Z06.

The Honda S2000 CR, the Nismo 350Z, the Viper ACR, and the GT3 are factory produced vehicles with real track upgrades. The Japanese products don't take it to the extreme as the others but are a step in the right direction. Chevy should have taken guidance from Porsche when planning the different C6 versions because they not only do they cover all bases, but they also have factory upgrades making there little need to venture into the aftermarket.

Here are the proposed changes to the various Corvette models that I see appropriate with the addition of a new Corvette GT.

Z06-dump the dry sump system to save dollars as this car will be relegated to street use since all those wanting a track car will buy the GT. Keep the aluminum chassis for weight savings but offer this car as a vert or targa as well. Keep base C6 brakes as standard and offer current Z06 brakes as optional. Magnetic suspension. Eliminate carbon fiber fenders and floor panels for cost savings. Base MSRP $67,000.

GT-steel chassis from base C6 with ability to add optional roll cage a la Porsche. Adjustable coilovers and big swaybars. Lose weight by removing as much luxo-crap that you can and use a lot of carbon fiber body panels and removable splitter. Brembo brakes with 2 piece iron rotors standard, carbon ceramic as optional upgrade. Upgraded LS7 motor producing 600 hp and capable of 7500 rpm redline. Money saved on chassis can be spent on real nice leather racing seats with harnesses and full guages. Base MSRP $85,000


ZR1-same as current car with iron rotors standard, carbon ceramic as optional upgrade. If this will be GM's supercar it will have to have a high end interior and really nice seats like in AMG or BMW M cars. Base MSRP $102,000.


This is my opinion and I'm curious how others feel about it. If most of you are believers, I will forward this in an email to Tom Wallace.

danl72

You have an interesting point. But I don't think GM looks at it the same way you do. What a surprise there.

AU N EGL

CallowayZ06 = GT3
Riley C6 Corvette = GT2
Pratt Miller = GT1

jschindler

I think you bring up some interesting ideas, and it's funny your timing. I went out and ran about 130 miles on the back roads this morning. I was thinking about what I wish they would build for me from the factory at a fair price...

Base LS3 car with flared fenders - but to differentiate from the Z06, don't put the "ducts" on the rear fenders and front (air intake). Give it the Z06 brakes and suspension pieces and a wheel/tire combo same as Z06 sizes, but with different style wheels to keep it from looking like a clone.

Personally, I don't want a stripped race car. I still want all the goodies plus a few more as I'm not into racing the car.

I think what your are doing is a good exercise, and I would not mind seeing GM go your direction as well.

Oyishdog

I agree for the most part, but I think the z06 is closer to the GT3...if the z06 had the zr1 brakes, it would be a great competition between the two.

I guess you could also say the base c6 is the carrera, and then the c6 with the "sport exhaust" with a bump in HP is the carrera S (maybe a bit of a stretch).

Dr Chill

Z06=GT3 - seats/brakes/near bulletproof motor (and resale value)

My point here is the Z06 needs modding to really be a track car whereas the GT3 doesn't, right down to the tires.

You're right about the Carrera S. I just upgraded it in the original post with the $17,000 Carrera power kit which raises power output to 381 hp. Includes modified cylinder heads, exhaust manifolds, ECU, additional radiator (only for manual transmission), carbon fiber air-cleaner housing, aluminum-intake system and sports exhaust system with pair of dual-tube tailpipes in individual design in chrome-plated stainless steel.

outnumbered

I think the GT3 is leaps and bounds above the Z06 as far as being a race car. The Z may be faster?? but not anywhere close to being race ready compared to a GT3.

The Clevite Kid

. . . and make it available as a convertible as well as a coupe .

reidry

Basically I think GM has is pretty right. My only other perference would be the Chinese menu.

I would prefer GM provide a larger selection of customer selectable options.

1. Z06 platform should be avilable with LS3 motor, this provides the wide body base car with the benefit of the lighter platform, wider wheels, and even better mileage (wider tires would eat into the LS3 economy a little). Combined with the Z51 package this would make an awesome autocross car. With very little options this would meet the need for all the people who buy the Z06 strictly for looks - and elminate a bunch of the wide body conversions.

2. There should be a factory Brembo brake package available for a car at any level from 1LT coupe on up. Maybe three - one 4 piston fronts, one 6 piston fronts, one carbon-ceramic. Face it, the Corvette is a desireable vehicle for HPDEs - the factory should allow options that fit the desired use of the car. Besides BBKs look good and who could ever fault a package that adds safety by decreasing stopping distance.

3. There should be an option for Aero packages. The Z06 racing spoiler should be an option, a front splitter plus rear spoiler package should be an option, and maybe even a club racer aero package with the big wing and splitter.

4. There should be a few more customization options available for paint and interior schemes all within the availability of current parts. Every car should be available with a padded center console. Selecting a different paint color for the headlight buckets should be an option. Selecting a different paint color for the rear spoiler should be an option.

I can think of a few more, but these are all things that shouldn't add much carrying cost to the existing production line - if any. During assembly it takes a little more attention to detail with more options, but these are thinks that I think Corvette customers want.

YMMV,

Ryan

johnodrake

Wayne O

You have some interesting ideas (and I wish GM would make a more competition oriented production Vette) but I think GM is hitting their Corvette demographics pretty well as is.

Do you really think 30%-40% of ZR1 owners will track their cars...with all due respect...dream on. I'm always surprised by how few Corvette owners ever get their car on a track let alone those that track their car regularly. Of total C6 production, I'd be shocked if 10% ever tracked their car. I'd wager the percentage will be far lower with the ZR1.

I'd love to see a naturally aspirated, production Corvette built specifically for the track such as your GT. I just don't know that GM could justify this during these difficult economic times and considering their potential market. In better economic times I think GM could produce and develop a market for such a car successfully.

A production Corvette 'GT' would be nice but for now I'm resigned to building my own. I'm very pleased with how my car does now but I still have a few more things to do...I almost have my Corvette C6 GT.

PAKirk

I think you're in the minority, and you're missing one major truth to the Vette: yes, it's fast, has an established racing history, and continues to be refined... but it hits its buying demographic perfectly, and that demographic is, by and large, the Sunday cruise demographic. The Vette had a racing program that was built up and formed around the car being a weekend cruise/weekend drag car. The Porsche, on the other hand, has always been a purebred track car that was then refined for street use. I don't think there would be enough of a market for people to buy the Vette as a dedicated track car, like there is for Porsche. Those that do buy the Vette enjoy its lower price tag and, for the difference in price between the Vette and the P car, they can make the necessary modifications.

Don't believe me? Porsche clubs have HPDE days, track outings, rallies, solo II competitions, etc. Vette clubs have dinner cruises, show and shines, and various fund raiser shows. Neither is right or wrong; they're just two completely different mindsets. Around me, if you go to a Vette meeting and ask about when they're actually doing driving events (like track days), the look at you like you're from space, wondering why the hell you'd want to do that to your Vette. You'll get the same look from P car owners when you ask them when they're doing their next parking lot car show, since they'll be wondering why the hell you want to do an event with your car that doesn't involve driving.

The Vette has tremendous potential, but is a completely different demographic. Because of that, I simply don't think you can compare Porsche's model line up with that of the Vette; it's apples and oranges. I think both hit their intended target audience well.

And this is coming from someone who enjoys autocrossing and HPDE events.

I WOULD like to see the widebody as an option on non-Z06 cars. I'd like the look, and enjoy being able to remove the roof.

calmtgguy

15 models, http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/ pick one. I think that MOST people buy performance cars that they will never track. I guess Chevy could have a list of individual components that someone like you who does track your car could order from, but for the most part I think they got it covered. Racing is fun and I think it's the most fun when it doesn't cost an arm and a leg and every driver is driving the EXACT same car, like IROC. In my mind it's only then that winning really matters, other wise winning can be chalked up to a difference in the equipment, not the driver. Usually with cars, boats, motorcycles, someone always makes something better, nicer, faster, quicker, I say so what. A 1LT, MN6, Z51, NPP, car, for the money, can't be beat or even equaled in the market today. Wouldn't it be a blast if some nice race course had about 25 of these cars and rented them out like go karts. Don't have to race side by side, just compete by elapsed time around the course.

Dr Chill

I agree with many points here. How awesome would it be to have one base car and just individual options to upgrade. Brakes, motor, chassis, weight saving body panels, widebody fenders, interior choices. I'm definitely in favor of offering a Z06 bodykit option for the base Corvette (without Z06 badging of course).

Then GM can make a separate Corvette brand with their own dealerships.

C6400hp

C6=Base carrera
Z51 = Carrera S
Z06 = turbo
ZR1 = GT2
???= GT3

I think we need the Corvette that is like the GT3 in Porsches lineup. A bit lighter and more track focused.

Dr Chill

Can't you hear George Carlin doing this rant.


Porsche clubs have HPDE days, Corvette clubs have dinner cruises.

Porsche clubs have solos II competitions, Corvette clubs have show and shines.

KILR-RYD

I sort of agree with you there but with a diff, they should offer a track package for every version of the Vette

eg,
Base + Base Track ed.
Z06 + Z06 track ed
ZR1 + ZR1 track ed

the track ed should be options that you could get.

They dont need to produce more cars, but they can ditribute the number of track ed across the production run.

It would be awesome to see a track ed, having better tires, light wheels and better brakes, possibly a rollcage(another option may be), stripped interior to a certain degree /w race seats+sports steering wheel and use more exotic materials, a functioning wing(retractable), more aero changes. Charge what they feel is appropriate, I am sure people will fall all over it.

I can gaurantee this would be hot success, even if people wouldnt track their cars, they would buy plenty of these, this will also give corvette a better name overall..

jschindler

I understand the point you are trying to make, and I certainly can see why you would think that. But I actually think you might be a little off base. As we speak, there is a Corvette track day going on in Houston (see the Southwest section of this forum), and there are several track days and autocrosses a year. On the other hand, I know of lots of Porsche owners who don't even know how to pronounce the name of their car.

As further evidence, I was asked to judge a car show at a Lamborghini track day here in Houston a while back. It was open to all cars. There were as many Corvettes there as there were Porsches.

I actually think if Corvette build what the OP is asking for, there might even be more.

adias

IMO the Vette-911 correspondence is:

C6 (LS3) = Carrera S
Z06 = 997TT
ZR1 = GT2

No equivalent for GT3.

Note: the correspondence are on a power-basis and overall handling. Specific handling the 911 is still more precise.

If I was setting models and trim levels I would create a C6 with the following:

No XM (maybe no Onstar) to lower weight
No Heads up display
Recaro seats (not motorized)
Carbon brakes option
Full leather trim (a la 4LT)
Michelin PS2 ZP tires
Revise steering rack once again to make it more communicative, and revise steering assist (as the current assist is artificially too heavy). Reduce turning radius.

adias

Very true! I agree that the great majority of Vette owners drive the car as a (slow) cruiser and a show car. Unfortunate, really, but it's its demographics.