Perspective. The History of Corvette Prices, in 2010 Dollars.
03-10-2010, 06:20 PM
#41
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I think if you drop the base model out of the mix, which contributes nearly 50% of all Corvette sales, the Corvette will no longer exist because it will no longer be profitable overall to produce, regardless of the fact the models you mention contribute more profit per car than the base model. I think what the OP is trying to suggest is that, in view of the economic realities of today, GM needs to rethink the Corvette. Unfortunately it would seem they have already decided the solution is to design the C7 in Europe and/or China, which means it will no longer be an American icon, but something less desireable like a rice rocket that accelerates totally out of control, and which puts American workers out of work, American suppliers out of business, which contributes to the devaluation of the dollar, and the which depresses the economic prosperity of all Americans as a whole. And this from a company that we, the American tax payers, bailed out so they could stab us in the back!
03-10-2010, 07:38 PM
#42
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I think if you drop the base model out of the mix, which contributes nearly 50% of all Corvette sales, the Corvette will no longer exist because it will no longer be profitable overall to produce, regardless of the fact the models you mention contribute more profit per car than the base model. I think what the OP is trying to suggest is that, in view of the economic realities of today, GM needs to rethink the Corvette. Unfortunately it would seem they have already decided the solution is to design the C7 in Europe and/or China, which means it will no longer be an American icon, but something less desireable like a rice rocket that accelerates totally out of control, and which puts American workers out of work, American suppliers out of business, which contributes to the devaluation of the dollar, and the which depresses the economic prosperity of all Americans as a whole. And this from a company that we, the American tax payers, bailed out so they could stab us in the back!
That said, the economy is going to dictate the future of the Corvette. I like both the original, and wide body Corvette, and choice is a good thing, but I think too many choices might actually hurt sales, and increase the cost of production. For years the Corvette did just fine with a coupe, and a vert. Now, because of the aluminum frame of the Z06, and the ZR1, there's a problem, they can't be a targa, or vert. The GS addresses the look with the wide body, but where's the LS7, or LS9 option on the GS. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of the advantages of the aluminum frame for the two Z's. Now G.M. announces the Z07 option, is it cool stuff, yes, but one word comes to mind, clusterf__k. Two platforms, 5 suspension setups, 4 motors, 4 brake setups, 4 front fenders, 3 manual transmissions....6 models.
03-10-2010, 10:26 PM
#44
Team Owner
The number one thing I was thinking is that it's amazing just how stable the price of a new Vette really has been. Look at what you get in a C6, 1LT, Coupe, compared to any Vette that came before it. Even in the C6 line, '05 to '10, there is new stuff every year.
That said, the economy is going to dictate the future of the Corvette. I like both the original, and wide body Corvette, and choice is a good thing, but I think too many choices might actually hurt sales, and increase the cost of production. For years the Corvette did just fine with a coupe, and a vert. Now, because of the aluminum frame of the Z06, and the ZR1, there's a problem, they can't be a targa, or vert. The GS addresses the look with the wide body, but where's the LS7, or LS9 option on the GS. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of the advantages of the aluminum frame for the two Z's. Now G.M. announces the Z07 option, is it cool stuff, yes, but one word comes to mind, clusterf__k. Two platforms, 5 suspension setups, 4 motors, 4 brake setups, 4 front fenders, 3 manual transmissions....6 models.
That said, the economy is going to dictate the future of the Corvette. I like both the original, and wide body Corvette, and choice is a good thing, but I think too many choices might actually hurt sales, and increase the cost of production. For years the Corvette did just fine with a coupe, and a vert. Now, because of the aluminum frame of the Z06, and the ZR1, there's a problem, they can't be a targa, or vert. The GS addresses the look with the wide body, but where's the LS7, or LS9 option on the GS. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of the advantages of the aluminum frame for the two Z's. Now G.M. announces the Z07 option, is it cool stuff, yes, but one word comes to mind, clusterf__k. Two platforms, 5 suspension setups, 4 motors, 4 brake setups, 4 front fenders, 3 manual transmissions....6 models.
That's the way I see it with all of these different V-8 Mustangs, GT, GT-500, GT-350 with new 5.0 engine which are fine but then they have others by tuners like Rousch, Saleen, Steeda, and other models like the Supersnake along with the $60,000+ price tags with that very same live rear end axle Seems like there too many versions to make those cars special since that's what they try to do at the upper higher end performance Shelby Mustangs. But they put a cap on it by limiting how many they will make.
By making a car to appeal to the masses with more choices and affordable is what made car successful with the V-6 model.
To me these cars are expensive and getting more expensive for what you get as far as keeping up with technology.
Those others are just upper end Mustangs if you want to call them that but still overpriced.
I looked at what it would be like to order a 2010 today from factory compared to when I ordered 2005 Corvette. It looks much more difficult now to do a factory order.
The 2005 had less choices with no Z-06 and was the first model C-6 with the first and only year A-4 transmission which was a beefed up version of the C-5 auto then in 2006 came the A-6. This makes 2005 Corvette unique with a only year transmission for Corvette. Plus that fat steering wheel
and of course a different rear end not as robust as the 2006 but it's fine for me. Like a 68 Corvette that had parts exclusive to that year only.
I did price out what the cost of a similiar equipped Corvette to the way I ordered mine and it cost what I paid to get my car out the door total price.
03-11-2010, 09:16 AM
#45
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
At one point, back in the mid-90s, Corvette did worry about cost and weight. As I recall, they started to put out "ideas" that the public could react to in the way of slimming down the options, slimming down the features, coming out with a "stripper." (no, not THAT kind...
) to try and reduce both cost and weight so it'd be more attractive to more buyers and racers.
The fixed-roof coupe (the original, "FRC" as compared to C6 usage which is for Fuel Rail Covers) was the result. But by the time of production in the C5 line, it had grown and people had reacted to the original plans, and the costs were not reduced significantly (it didn't go from say, a $38,000 car to $28,000). It was only around for a year or two in the C5 lineup, IIRC.
But the FRC concept got resurrected for the C5-Z06 for many reasons, one of which was structural. And the Z06 remains unique in the C6 line.
But as far as I can tell, cost has not been the biggest issue concerning Corvettes. I still maintain that the base Corvette, without any options, for all that some would say it lacks is a helluva good deal especially when it is routinely sold for (not MSRP, actual cost less TTL) just under/around $40,000.
) to try and reduce both cost and weight so it'd be more attractive to more buyers and racers.The fixed-roof coupe (the original, "FRC" as compared to C6 usage which is for Fuel Rail Covers) was the result. But by the time of production in the C5 line, it had grown and people had reacted to the original plans, and the costs were not reduced significantly (it didn't go from say, a $38,000 car to $28,000). It was only around for a year or two in the C5 lineup, IIRC.
But the FRC concept got resurrected for the C5-Z06 for many reasons, one of which was structural. And the Z06 remains unique in the C6 line.
But as far as I can tell, cost has not been the biggest issue concerning Corvettes. I still maintain that the base Corvette, without any options, for all that some would say it lacks is a helluva good deal especially when it is routinely sold for (not MSRP, actual cost less TTL) just under/around $40,000.
Last edited by AORoads; 03-11-2010 at 09:18 AM.
03-11-2010, 09:25 AM
#46
Team Owner
Let me throw in another "problem" with today's Corvette prices. GM has bundled options that for many of us has made the effective price of a new Corvette higher.
There are some must have options for me that on a Convertible for instance forces me to pay $2000 for a power top I don't want, a Bose stereo that is not worth it etc. And now a "Z51" is effectively a $5500 option. Oh- and there were no extra cost paint colors back then. Now half the colors available are a big upcharge.
What would be more interesting - but not really possible to figure out, is what has the price of the average Corvette sold done over those same years.
There are some must have options for me that on a Convertible for instance forces me to pay $2000 for a power top I don't want, a Bose stereo that is not worth it etc. And now a "Z51" is effectively a $5500 option. Oh- and there were no extra cost paint colors back then. Now half the colors available are a big upcharge.
What would be more interesting - but not really possible to figure out, is what has the price of the average Corvette sold done over those same years.
03-11-2010, 12:03 PM
#47
Team Owner
At one point, back in the mid-90s, Corvette did worry about cost and weight. As I recall, they started to put out "ideas" that the public could react to in the way of slimming down the options, slimming down the features, coming out with a "stripper." (no, not THAT kind...) to try and reduce both cost and weight so it'd be more attractive to more buyers and racers.
The fixed-roof coupe (the original, "FRC" as compared to C6 usage which is for Fuel Rail Covers) was the result. But by the time of production in the C5 line, it had grown and people had reacted to the original plans, and the costs were not reduced significantly (it didn't go from say, a $38,000 car to $28,000). It was only around for a year or two in the C5 lineup, IIRC.
But the FRC concept got resurrected for the C5-Z06 for many reasons, one of which was structural. And the Z06 remains unique in the C6 line.
But as far as I can tell, cost has not been the biggest issue concerning Corvettes. I still maintain that the base Corvette, without any options, for all that some would say it lacks is a helluva good deal especially when it is routinely sold for (not MSRP, actual cost less TTL) just under/around $40,000.
) to try and reduce both cost and weight so it'd be more attractive to more buyers and racers.The fixed-roof coupe (the original, "FRC" as compared to C6 usage which is for Fuel Rail Covers) was the result. But by the time of production in the C5 line, it had grown and people had reacted to the original plans, and the costs were not reduced significantly (it didn't go from say, a $38,000 car to $28,000). It was only around for a year or two in the C5 lineup, IIRC.
But the FRC concept got resurrected for the C5-Z06 for many reasons, one of which was structural. And the Z06 remains unique in the C6 line.
But as far as I can tell, cost has not been the biggest issue concerning Corvettes. I still maintain that the base Corvette, without any options, for all that some would say it lacks is a helluva good deal especially when it is routinely sold for (not MSRP, actual cost less TTL) just under/around $40,000.
I believe it was made in 1999? It didn't catch on that well.
Instead the Z-06 got that body style which was more rigid.
03-11-2010, 02:09 PM
#48
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Keeping it simple.
Let me throw in another "problem" with today's Corvette prices. GM has bundled options that for many of us has made the effective price of a new Corvette higher.
There are some must have options for me that on a Convertible for instance forces me to pay $2000 for a power top I don't want, a Bose stereo that is not worth it etc. And now a "Z51" is effectively a $5500 option. Oh- and there were no extra cost paint colors back then. Now half the colors available are a big upcharge.
What would be more interesting - but not really possible to figure out, is what has the price of the average Corvette sold done over those same years.
There are some must have options for me that on a Convertible for instance forces me to pay $2000 for a power top I don't want, a Bose stereo that is not worth it etc. And now a "Z51" is effectively a $5500 option. Oh- and there were no extra cost paint colors back then. Now half the colors available are a big upcharge.
What would be more interesting - but not really possible to figure out, is what has the price of the average Corvette sold done over those same years.
LS3 = $6,899 retail cost, GS standard engine, add 0.
LS7 = $13,859 retail cost, GS LS7 option, add $6,960
LS9 = $22,300 retail cost, GS LS9 option, add $15,400
Now here's what it looks like, standard engine.
CORVETTE GS COUPE
6.2 LITER 436 HP ENGINE
6 SPD MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Torch Red
Black Interior Trim
MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE $57,310.00
STANDARD VEHICLE PRICE $54,770.00
Options installed by Manufacturer
EXHAUST-DUAL-MODE
PERFORMANCE
$ 1,195.00
COMPETITION GRAY ALUMINUM WHLS
$ 395.00
TOTAL OPTIONS $1,590.00
TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS $56,360.00
DESTINATION CHARGE $950.00
TOTAL VEHICLE PRICE*** $57,310.00
OR with the LS7...
CORVETTE GS COUPE
7.0 LITER 505 HP ENGINE
6 SPD MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Torch Red
Black Interior Trim
MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE $64,270.00
STANDARD VEHICLE PRICE $61,730.00
Options installed by Manufacturer
EXHAUST-DUAL-MODE
PERFORMANCE
$ 1,195.00
COMPETITION GRAY ALUMINUM WHLS
$ 395.00
TOTAL OPTIONS $1,590.00
TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS $63,320.00
DESTINATION CHARGE $950.00
TOTAL VEHICLE PRICE*** $64,270.00
OR with the LS9...
CORVETTE GS COUPE
6.2 LITER S/C 638 HP ENGINE
6 SPD MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Torch Red
Black Interior Trim
MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE $74,010.00
STANDARD VEHICLE PRICE $70,170.00
Options installed by Manufacturer
EXHAUST-DUAL-MODE
PERFORMANCE
$ 1,195.00
COMPETITION GRAY ALUMINUM WHLS
$ 395.00
GAS GUZZLER TAX$ 1,300.00
TOTAL OPTIONS $2,890.00
TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS $73,060.00
DESTINATION CHARGE $950.00
TOTAL VEHICLE PRICE*** $74,010.00
Now that's performance, screw the weight savings of the aluminum frame. Now I have a targa top, 638 HP S/C Vette, with a no BS factory warranty, for an MSRP of $74,010. Forget that $109,130 base price of a ZR1, forget going to Callaway, forget the "I'd buy a Z06 if it had a targa top", sell cars!!! Talk about bang for the buck, the magazines would be freaking out.
Last edited by calmtgguy; 03-11-2010 at 08:18 PM.
03-11-2010, 03:50 PM
#52
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Yes, and unless you were a super rich guy or making super wages, you wouldn't have been able to afford a $32.5K house (at about 2-300/mo. all in) AND a $21.8K Corvette (at about 300+/mo.) since both would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $300/month.
03-11-2010, 05:16 PM
#53
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
Actually they took a pretty significant haircut on wages and benefits so GMs labor costs are in line with their competitors.
True we have transferred massive debts to the public sector but just like the banks are starting to pay back their TARP funds GM will also pay them back. Buying GM cars is a sure fire way to help them pay them back sooner. Its known as looking out for yourself.
There are far worse debts where we aren't going to get paid back.
Agreed that it most likely will happen and probably will be because China will threaten to call the mortgage.
Actually they took a pretty significant haircut on wages and benefits so GMs labor costs are in line with their competitors.
True we have transferred massive debts to the public sector but just like the banks are starting to pay back their TARP funds GM will also pay them back. Buying GM cars is a sure fire way to help them pay them back sooner. Its known as looking out for yourself.
There are far worse debts where we aren't going to get paid back.
Agreed that it most likely will happen and probably will be because China will threaten to call the mortgage.
2) The government will not recover all of the money loaned out under the tarp program. But thats not even the point, the FED monetized that debt, meaning they printed money to pay for this program that arbitrary creation of money results in inflation. Are they going to take that money back out of circulation? No, of course not which means that the purchasing power of every dollar is diminished. This is not looking out for yourself this is a tax on the American people that is hidden in rising prices.
3) You're right of course but we must oppose every unconstitutional expenditure of money not just the most egregious.
4) Again you're right China is rapidly becoming the world's single largest holder of sovereign US debt. Which puts us in a very bad position with a very hostile country.
03-11-2010, 06:30 PM
#54
Le Mans Master
1) Maybe they did but GM didn't gain any bargaining power. The unions will continue to up their demands as GM "recovers" until the unions are dealt with this will be an ongoing issue.
2) The government will not recover all of the money loaned out under the tarp program. But thats not even the point, the FED monetized that debt, meaning they printed money to pay for this program that arbitrary creation of money results in inflation. Are they going to take that money back out of circulation? No, of course not which means that the purchasing power of every dollar is diminished. This is not looking out for yourself this is a tax on the American people that is hidden in rising prices.
3) You're right of course but we must oppose every unconstitutional expenditure of money not just the most egregious.
4) Again you're right China is rapidly becoming the world's single largest holder of sovereign US debt. Which puts us in a very bad position with a very hostile country.
2) The government will not recover all of the money loaned out under the tarp program. But thats not even the point, the FED monetized that debt, meaning they printed money to pay for this program that arbitrary creation of money results in inflation. Are they going to take that money back out of circulation? No, of course not which means that the purchasing power of every dollar is diminished. This is not looking out for yourself this is a tax on the American people that is hidden in rising prices.
3) You're right of course but we must oppose every unconstitutional expenditure of money not just the most egregious.
4) Again you're right China is rapidly becoming the world's single largest holder of sovereign US debt. Which puts us in a very bad position with a very hostile country.
