Blackstone Labs - Oil Analysis
03-24-2011, 05:55 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Blackstone Labs - Oil Analysis
Just had my oil analyzed (Mobil 1 5W-30, AC Delco Filter) by Blackstone Labs. Oil was in the vehicle for almost one year and had 4,000 miles on it between oil changes. The car has 10,313 miles on it at the time of this report and the oil sample was taken from the third oil change since I bought the car new in August 2009.
The report indicated, "We found higher metals in your sample, though we're not quite ready to call anything a problem yet."
Some of the metals (and other substances) that were higher than the average are;
Iron - 48 (Average is 29)
Copper - 216 (Average is 83)
Molybdenum - 102 (Average is 83)
Calcium - 2578 (Average is 2478)
The Copper result was the only item that was bolded. I am assuming it was to draw my attention to the difference from the average. They also mentioned that GM engines tend to make a lot of copper, so they were not concerned at this time.
Also had the "TBN" test done which indicates the active additives left in the oil. My result was 4.0. 1.0 indicates low additives.
Thoughts???
I'm curious to hear results from others that may have had their oil analyzed through Blackstone Labs.
The report indicated, "We found higher metals in your sample, though we're not quite ready to call anything a problem yet."
Some of the metals (and other substances) that were higher than the average are;
Iron - 48 (Average is 29)
Copper - 216 (Average is 83)
Molybdenum - 102 (Average is 83)
Calcium - 2578 (Average is 2478)
The Copper result was the only item that was bolded. I am assuming it was to draw my attention to the difference from the average. They also mentioned that GM engines tend to make a lot of copper, so they were not concerned at this time.
Also had the "TBN" test done which indicates the active additives left in the oil. My result was 4.0. 1.0 indicates low additives.
Thoughts???
I'm curious to hear results from others that may have had their oil analyzed through Blackstone Labs.
Last edited by Rossi6998; 03-24-2011 at 06:39 PM.
03-24-2011, 06:12 PM
#3
Race Director
Bob is your source for all your oil questions....
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/
Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.
The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.
Copper (CU), Tin: These metals are normally from bearings or bushings and valve guides. Oil coolers also can contribute to copper readings along with some oil additives. In a new engine these results will normally be high during break-in, but will decline in a few hundred hours.
Table I. Engine problems predicted with oil analysis.
Indicator Acceptable Levels Engine Problem What to Check
Silicon (Si) and
Aluminum (Al) 10 to 30 ppm Dirt ingestion Air intake system, oil filter plugging, oil filler cap and breather, valve covers, oil supply
Iron (Fe) 100 to 200 ppm Wear of cylinder liner, valve and gear train, oil pump, rust in system Excessive oil consumption, abnormal engine noise,performance problems, oil pressure, abnormal operating temperatures, stuck/broken piston rings
Chromium (CR) 10 to 30 ppm Piston ring wear Excessive oil blow-by and oil consumption, oil degradation
Copper (CU) 10 to 50 ppm Bearings and bushings wear, oil cooler passivating,radiator corrosion Coolant in engine oil, abnormal noise when operating at near stall speed
Lead (Pb)* 40 to 100 ppm Bearing corrosion Extended oil change intervals
Copper (CU) and
Lead (Pb)* 10 to 50 ppm Bearing lining wear Oil pressure, abnormal engine noise, dirt being ingested in air intake, fuel dilution, extended oil drain intervals
Aluminum (Al) 10 to 30 ppm Piston and piston thrust bearing wear Blow-by gases, oil consumption, power loss, abnormal engine noise
Silver and
Tin 2 to 5 ppm
10 to 30 ppm Wear of bearings Excessive oil consumption, abnormal engine noise, loss in oil pressure
Viscosity Change Lack of lubrication Fuel dilution, blow-by gases, oil oxidation, carburetor choke, ignition timing, injectors, injector pump, oil pressure
Water/Anti-freeze Coolant leak or condensation Coolant supply, gasket sealed, hose connection, oil filler cap and breather
High Copper discussion on GM V8's...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1054026
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/
Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.
The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.
Copper (CU), Tin: These metals are normally from bearings or bushings and valve guides. Oil coolers also can contribute to copper readings along with some oil additives. In a new engine these results will normally be high during break-in, but will decline in a few hundred hours.
Table I. Engine problems predicted with oil analysis.
Indicator Acceptable Levels Engine Problem What to Check
Silicon (Si) and
Aluminum (Al) 10 to 30 ppm Dirt ingestion Air intake system, oil filter plugging, oil filler cap and breather, valve covers, oil supply
Iron (Fe) 100 to 200 ppm Wear of cylinder liner, valve and gear train, oil pump, rust in system Excessive oil consumption, abnormal engine noise,performance problems, oil pressure, abnormal operating temperatures, stuck/broken piston rings
Chromium (CR) 10 to 30 ppm Piston ring wear Excessive oil blow-by and oil consumption, oil degradation
Copper (CU) 10 to 50 ppm Bearings and bushings wear, oil cooler passivating,radiator corrosion Coolant in engine oil, abnormal noise when operating at near stall speed
Lead (Pb)* 40 to 100 ppm Bearing corrosion Extended oil change intervals
Copper (CU) and
Lead (Pb)* 10 to 50 ppm Bearing lining wear Oil pressure, abnormal engine noise, dirt being ingested in air intake, fuel dilution, extended oil drain intervals
Aluminum (Al) 10 to 30 ppm Piston and piston thrust bearing wear Blow-by gases, oil consumption, power loss, abnormal engine noise
Silver and
Tin 2 to 5 ppm
10 to 30 ppm Wear of bearings Excessive oil consumption, abnormal engine noise, loss in oil pressure
Viscosity Change Lack of lubrication Fuel dilution, blow-by gases, oil oxidation, carburetor choke, ignition timing, injectors, injector pump, oil pressure
Water/Anti-freeze Coolant leak or condensation Coolant supply, gasket sealed, hose connection, oil filler cap and breather
High Copper discussion on GM V8's...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1054026
Last edited by Don-Vette; 03-24-2011 at 06:20 PM.
03-24-2011, 06:32 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
03-24-2011, 06:37 PM
#7
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What filter are you running?
LS engines kick off significant copper for quite a few oil changes.
Best theory I've read is that the copper is leftover from the camshaft, as a result of the carburizing heat-treatment applied to the lobes. If this is the case, the copper is harmless and not indicative of any engine defect.
The iron in your sample is higher than my LS1 ever got, but I wouldn't get my nose bent about it on yours as the mileage is still very low. I didn't start having oil analysis done until mine was past warranty @ 36K miles.
I'd change the oil (if you haven't already) and pull a sample after you get a few thousand miles on it.
LS engines kick off significant copper for quite a few oil changes.
Best theory I've read is that the copper is leftover from the camshaft, as a result of the carburizing heat-treatment applied to the lobes. If this is the case, the copper is harmless and not indicative of any engine defect.
The iron in your sample is higher than my LS1 ever got, but I wouldn't get my nose bent about it on yours as the mileage is still very low. I didn't start having oil analysis done until mine was past warranty @ 36K miles.
I'd change the oil (if you haven't already) and pull a sample after you get a few thousand miles on it.
03-24-2011, 06:40 PM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
What filter are you running?
LS engines kick off significant copper for quite a few oil changes.
Best theory I've read is that the copper is leftover from the camshaft, as a result of the carburizing heat-treatment applied to the lobes. If this is the case, the copper is harmless and not indicative of any engine defect.
The iron in your sample is higher than my LS1 ever got, but I wouldn't get my nose bent about it on yours as the mileage is still very low. I didn't start having oil analysis done until mine was past warranty @ 36K miles.
I'd change the oil (if you haven't already) and pull a sample after you get a few thousand miles on it.
LS engines kick off significant copper for quite a few oil changes.
Best theory I've read is that the copper is leftover from the camshaft, as a result of the carburizing heat-treatment applied to the lobes. If this is the case, the copper is harmless and not indicative of any engine defect.
The iron in your sample is higher than my LS1 ever got, but I wouldn't get my nose bent about it on yours as the mileage is still very low. I didn't start having oil analysis done until mine was past warranty @ 36K miles.
I'd change the oil (if you haven't already) and pull a sample after you get a few thousand miles on it.
Oil just changed... Blackstone Labs suggested taking another sample at 4,000 miles (like the last sample).
Last edited by Rossi6998; 03-24-2011 at 06:43 PM.
03-24-2011, 06:46 PM
#9
Race Director
Until you have sent in a number of samples to establish a trend, one sample tells very little except at this point your engine has higher than normal wear levels. The next sample might have lower than normal levels. Time and more use will tell.
03-24-2011, 06:48 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
03-24-2011, 07:01 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
My oil analysis
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...e-5w-30-a.html
This is using Castrol Edge. If I were you, I'd quit using M1. In fact, despite how good Castrol was in my last report, I'm done using GM4178 or Dexos spec oils. I don't think they offer the best protection, IMO.
I'm now using Renewable Lubricants GRP 5 oil and will have a test done in about 3k more miles.
BTW, I had an 08' LS3 and changed the oil to Amsoil at 1500 miles, then ran it for 8500 miles and had it analyzed. I'll have to check, but that oil analysis was better than yours despite having twice the miles on the oil, and being just the second oil change.
This is using Castrol Edge. If I were you, I'd quit using M1. In fact, despite how good Castrol was in my last report, I'm done using GM4178 or Dexos spec oils. I don't think they offer the best protection, IMO.
I'm now using Renewable Lubricants GRP 5 oil and will have a test done in about 3k more miles.
BTW, I had an 08' LS3 and changed the oil to Amsoil at 1500 miles, then ran it for 8500 miles and had it analyzed. I'll have to check, but that oil analysis was better than yours despite having twice the miles on the oil, and being just the second oil change.
Last edited by AirBusPilot; 03-24-2011 at 07:06 PM.
03-24-2011, 07:25 PM
#12
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2011
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I wouldn't go shooting down a particular brand of oil, based on a single experience or personal bias. The fact is, each engine and the driving habits of the vehicle operator are going to impact the wear patterns more than Mobil 1 v. Castrol, Kendall, Redline or Sewing Machine oil for that matter.
Driving habits, driving conditions, outside air temperature, and even brand/grade of fuel will effect performance, engine operating temperatures, and engine wear patterns.
Early in an engines life, it will shed some metal. That is what breaking it in is all about. If an engine is required to perform at high rpms for sustained periods on hot days, pulling hills, it creates heat that can cause more friction which will shed more metal and reduce the engines life cycle. A good quality oil will prevent excessive wear in normal operation conditions. But it isn't going to stop wear.
So, like a previous poster said, wait until you get a few thousand miles on the car before coming to any conclusions. Give it time to wear-in.
Rings in today's engines generally don't seat until about 7.500 miles. And with synthetic oils, I would expect metal contents to be a little high for a little longer period than they used to with dino oil or oil metals and machining methods. YMMV
Driving habits, driving conditions, outside air temperature, and even brand/grade of fuel will effect performance, engine operating temperatures, and engine wear patterns.
Early in an engines life, it will shed some metal. That is what breaking it in is all about. If an engine is required to perform at high rpms for sustained periods on hot days, pulling hills, it creates heat that can cause more friction which will shed more metal and reduce the engines life cycle. A good quality oil will prevent excessive wear in normal operation conditions. But it isn't going to stop wear.
So, like a previous poster said, wait until you get a few thousand miles on the car before coming to any conclusions. Give it time to wear-in.
Rings in today's engines generally don't seat until about 7.500 miles. And with synthetic oils, I would expect metal contents to be a little high for a little longer period than they used to with dino oil or oil metals and machining methods. YMMV
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Vette588 (03-26-2019)
03-24-2011, 07:55 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
03-24-2011, 08:26 PM
#15
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03-24-2011, 10:20 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over thinking you will get a different result? lol
I'd change oil brands. In fact, this is what I would recommend:
http://www.renewablelube.com/motoroilsHP.htm
10w30 "HD"
It's what I'm using.
The spec sheet has not been updated. But, this oil has a very high quality anti wear additive.
Or, give Castrol Edge 10w30 or Penn Ultra a try, then do another oil analysis.
I'd change oil brands. In fact, this is what I would recommend:
http://www.renewablelube.com/motoroilsHP.htm
10w30 "HD"
It's what I'm using.
The spec sheet has not been updated. But, this oil has a very high quality anti wear additive.
Or, give Castrol Edge 10w30 or Penn Ultra a try, then do another oil analysis.
Last edited by AirBusPilot; 03-24-2011 at 10:22 PM.
03-25-2011, 05:57 AM
#19
Race Director
03-25-2011, 06:11 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
No really thanks for the link and Ill eventually read it but Im sure there's a quick/simple answer...