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Old 05-19-2013, 02:43 AM   #1
berk4422
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Default Raleigh PD Laser testing on I440

Raleigh PD was out testing their new laser toy today from the Lake Wheeler Road Overpass - eastbound traffic enforcement. The position was raised above I440 shooting down. I was doing the speed limit (65mph) as I usually do, so no worries.

My escort 9500 IX lit up real fast from at least 15 to 20 seconds out - probably 2 to 3/10ths of a mile out. RPD had the laser on my vehicle for more than 7 seconds - according to the audible signal from the 9500IX. It also chirped for a few seconds with a 1 second pause... Guessing the officer had trouble getting a first shot reading???

My question for the forum is, From an elevated position such an overpass, how does the laser/radar get its reading from my car? Windshield? Headlights? Hood? What would be the best place for mounting a laser shifters for defending against these types of surprise surveillance scenarios?

The goal is not to speed, but rather to a afford a few seconds of notice to ensure I am conducting my driving in a safe manner compliant with the rules of the road...
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:48 AM   #2
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I always heard to put the radar detector as high up as possible, how you like the 9500xi? I trying to decide between the valentine one and the 9500
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:13 AM   #3
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I always heard to put the radar detector as high up as possible, how you like the 9500xi? I trying to decide between the valentine one and the 9500
I've had many cobra and older escort models. This is by far the best due to its ability to learn false alerts by GPS location and frequency. Good advance warning, except when LEO sits quietly for a 1 minute/mile duration and randomly uses the instant-on. Seems like no defense against LEO's good use of the instant-on function, from any detector.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:12 AM   #4
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They mostly likely weren't testing but actually enforcing....NC SHP does this on the overpass at I40 westbound just past Harrison ave(Old Reedy Creek rd?) they sit behind the sign and get you coming down the hill, also RPD does it at Lumely rd overpass at I540 they will sit up there with blue lights on like they have someone pulled shooting LIDAR...in all cases it depends on where the officer sights in on and when they hit you and your detector goes off it a little late as it is a small cone of detection ( unlike Radar where you can get a signal from running radar) ....generally if you look around at on ramps you will see the take down vehicles waiting for the Radio call....the officer shooting radar/lidar isn't pulling cars over from those locations.

I have the escort 9500ix like it but always keep in presence of mind to be on the lookout visually...the detector works good but seeing a car or someone that looks out of place in the distance has always saved my but...detector saves me when I'm way to relaxed and not looking for traffic enforcement or in heavy traffic.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:32 AM   #5
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I can tell you with an experienced officer that none of the detectors are going to work in time for you to react. The newer systems do not emit any signal, and after several years on the job, a cop can guestimate your speed within a couple miles per hour an then activate the radar/laser. It takes about 3/4 of a second to react to the detector and at 70 mph you've gone 100 feet or so before you brake and the radar/laser is intstant. I've seen many deflectors, jammers, and systems with guarantees that did not hold up to the expectations...
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:34 AM   #6
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Seems like radar detectors are simply a warning to get your wallet out.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by psp6158 View Post
I can tell you with an experienced officer that none of the detectors are going to work in time for you to react. The newer systems do not emit any signal, and after several years on the job, a cop can guestimate your speed within a couple miles per hour an then activate the radar/laser. It takes about 3/4 of a second to react to the detector and at 70 mph you've gone 100 feet or so before you brake and the radar/laser is intstant. I've seen many deflectors, jammers, and systems with guarantees that did not hold up to the expectations...
I believe you are incorrect. My Passport 9500ix will pick up radar 2 miles from the gun. Even over hills. If an officer shoots a vehicle in front of you, your detector can pick up random signals. On relative flat roads, I've detected radar well over 2 miles away, and laser well over a mile away from the sources.
Passport also has a new system out. It will replace your power cord and has a transmitter that will send your smart phone the location of radar traps from other Passport 9500ix equipped cars ahead of you. It will show a GPS location on your phone. Very cool. Especially if you have a convoy of Passport equipped cars.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:43 AM   #8
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I always heard to put the radar detector as high up as possible, how you like the 9500xi? I trying to decide between the valentine one and the 9500
Save yourself some money and get the Beltronics V10 awesome detector as good as the Valentine and Escort plus $150.00 less.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:46 AM   #9
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If you speed without your nose covered, you deserve to get a ticket. The majority of LEO's are pretty lazy. They don't "look" for your car- they know that if they hit enough cars they will find a victim. Most times you will have plenty of time to react IF you don't speed solo.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:13 AM   #10
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a cop can guestimate your speed within a couple miles per hour an then activate the radar/laser.
I somewhat agree and here is NC speed detection devices are supposed to be used as a verification to the officers estimate of violators speed based upon their experience and training of speed estimation....or at least that is how I was trained when I wore the badge of Raleigh PD in the late 90's.

Not necessarily true with radar though if other traffic is around and they are running it on other cars as the detector may give advanced warning of speed detection in progress ahead. If the gun is specifically targeting your vehicle you would be correct in an instant on situation.

I also don't agree with the notion "newer devices don't emit a signal" how exactly do they measure then....more likely newer devices haven't had the signal type or code cracked to mfg a detection device???

Last edited by BlueAngelSAE; 05-19-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by BlueAngelSAE View Post
They mostly likely weren't testing but actually enforcing....NC SHP does this on the overpass at I40 westbound just past Harrison ave(Old Reedy Creek rd?) they sit behind the sign and get you coming down the hill, also RPD does it at Lumely rd overpass at I540 they will sit up there with blue lights on like they have someone pulled shooting LIDAR...in all cases it depends on where the officer sights in on and when they hit you and your detector goes off it a little late as it is a small cone of detection ( unlike Radar where you can get a signal from running radar) ....generally if you look around at on ramps you will see the take down vehicles waiting for the Radio call....the officer shooting radar/lidar isn't pulling cars over from those locations.

I have the escort 9500ix like it but always keep in presence of mind to be on the lookout visually...the detector works good but seeing a car or someone that looks out of place in the distance has always saved my but...
The interesting part is one LEO was on the overpass, there was no car/lights visible on the overpass. There were no take down vehicles staged on the on-ramp (where they usually stage) there was no other LEO in sight for the next few miles. That is why i am "guessing" this was practice.
Thanks, did not know about the westbound 40 trap. that is typically a fast downhill for most drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngelSAE View Post
detector saves me when I'm way to relaxed and not looking for traffic enforcement or in heavy traffic.
happens to be my best use of the tool.

Last edited by berk4422; 05-19-2013 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:30 AM   #12
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If i am correct your laser detector works like the radar portion.You don't have to have it on your car.It picks up the signal hitting cars ahead to give you a warning. I agree with the person earlier.Most lazer guns i have seen have a sight like a scope,he sees you befor you see him.Your only hope is to get notice from cars ahead. If it hust went off when it hit your car it would be to late.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:38 AM   #13
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If i am correct your laser detector works like the radar portion.You don't have to have it on your car.It picks up the signal hitting cars ahead to give you a warning. I agree with the person earlier.Most lazer guns i have seen have a sight like a scope,he sees you befor you see him.Your only hope is to get notice from cars ahead. If it hust went off when it hit your car it would be to late.
Good to know on this point! There were cars in-front of me, so that could explain the pause in the alert - perhaps targeting one car then another. If so, the detector provided good warning time.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:51 AM   #14
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Typically with lasers, the LEO will aim at the front license plate (assuming your state requires one) The plate's highly reflective surface not only produces significant light scatter for the laser sensor to pickup, but also most lasers take a photo of the vehicle for ID purposes and the tag is the perfect place to aim. The headlights provide the other best surface to get a reading, but Unlikly on a c6.

This being said, There's also a Minimum and maximum range (again pending laws in your area) at which Laser speed tracking is deemed admissible my a court. Even from an elevated position like a bridge, a laser would be able to pickup scatter and at the approved range of detection, the speed displayed will actually be slightly (fractions of an MPH) slower than your actual speed due to the angle.

Also keep in mind that a typical LEO traffic unit is running laser from the side of the road and not always aiming at the outermost lane.

Your best bet for positioning the Jammer/Shifter pods is still going to be in the radiator opening as wide and high as possible.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:56 AM   #15
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Typically with lasers, the LEO will aim at the front license plate (assuming your state requires one) The plate's highly reflective surface not only produces significant light scatter for the laser sensor to pickup, but also most lasers take a photo of the vehicle for ID purposes and the tag is the perfect place to aim. The headlights provide the other best surface to get a reading, but Unlikly on a c6.

This being said, There's also a Minimum and maximum range (again pending laws in your area) at which Laser speed tracking is deemed admissible my a court. Even from an elevated position like a bridge, a laser would be able to pickup scatter and at the approved range of detection, the speed displayed will actually be slightly (fractions of an MPH) slower than your actual speed due to the angle.

Also keep in mind that a typical LEO traffic unit is running laser from the side of the road and not always aiming at the outermost lane.

Your best bet for positioning the Jammer/Shifter pods is still going to be in the radiator opening as wide and high as possible.
No front plate required in NC, so I am curious if placing shifters in the grill area would be too low if the laser is focused on the windshield. In this scenario it is a three lane highway. The LEO was positioned directly over the far left lane. I was approaching in the far right lane.
Also, what is "scatter"?
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:57 AM   #16
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Google can help find info on this.....laser or lidar projects a small beam and at 500' you may have an 18" beam or so...so with laser they can target a vehicle and others won't know it....they can also target a specific area on your car say fog lamp, feont plate or such and your detector might not pick it up......light color cars are also easier to target with laser than dark.

Not that I ever exceed the lawful speed limit to have the need to research this and I just like have the detector because its a gadget that has pretty lights and sounds

Best/worst RPD advice a friend that is still RPD gave me....he said put the hammer down you know we can't catch ya....I reminded him about the radio and his friends!
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:02 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by BlueAngelSAE View Post

Best/worst RPD advice a friend that is still RPD gave me....he said put the hammer down you know we can't catch ya....I reminded him about the radio and his friends!
I have been told but not verified that RPD has a black Vette that they seized a while back. I heard, but cannot verify, they like to find reasons to romp on it.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:06 AM   #18
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Good to know on this point! There were cars in-front of me, so that could explain the pause in the alert - perhaps targeting one car then another. If so, the detector provided good warning time.
I very seldom go much over the speed limit when alone on the hwy or at night. You can't see far down the road at night,also if you are alone
instant on can get you all day long..Thing that pisses me off is that they hide from you.It's just like stealingfrom the poor. When i was younger cops would catch me all the time.I guess i just got smarter as i gre older. Stop harrasing drivers and lock up drunken drivers, killers,drug dealers. You get my point,i just want to cruise and enjoy my car.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:08 AM   #19
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This is an interesting point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngelSAE View Post
laser or lidar projects a small beam and at 500' you may have an 18" beam or so...so with laser they can target a vehicle and others won't know it....they can also target a specific area on your car say fog lamp, feont plate or such and your detector might not pick it up.....
So no radar detector can see laser beyond a laser that touches the detector's sensor?
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by berk4422 View Post
No front plate required in NC, so I am curious if placing shifters in the grill area would be too low if the laser is focused on the windshield. In this scenario it is a three lane highway. The LEO was positioned directly over the far left lane. I was approaching in the far right lane.
Also, what is "scatter"?
The windshield would not be the ideal place to aim even in traffic. Most windshields are heavily sloped which means most of the laser energy would be reflected up instead of forward.

More information on the angle speed reading can be found here: http://www.opticsplanet.com/radar-gun-guide.html

Laser "scatter" is the breakup of light reflected from a laser when it hits the target vehicle. The laser from a LIDAR gun is not a pen-point beam, but a slight spread similar to a shotgun. At a distance, a good detector can pick up this scatter even if the device was aimed at another vehicle.


More info here:
http://www.iradars.co.nz/news.htm
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