Harmonic Balancer and other components to knock out.
01-20-2016, 05:27 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Harmonic Balancer and other components to knock out.
I need to replace my Harmonic Balancer on my 2005. ATI has been recommended. The ATI is very expensive.
A few questions:
Can I buy a replacement Harmonic Balancer that will allow me to add a supercharger later?
Are there any quality alternatives to the ATI?
Are there any other parts that I should have my mechanic replace while he is tackling the Harmonic Balancer?
Thank you for your input,
Ruff
A few questions:
Can I buy a replacement Harmonic Balancer that will allow me to add a supercharger later?
Are there any quality alternatives to the ATI?
Are there any other parts that I should have my mechanic replace while he is tackling the Harmonic Balancer?
Thank you for your input,
Ruff
01-20-2016, 05:30 PM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,985
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C6 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
Might do the water pump and thermostat. Your there anyway.
01-20-2016, 05:39 PM
#4
Drifting
I highly recommend the ATI unit. I have not experienced a failure with one nor have I heard of one. Replacing the damper is expensive - period. It's an 8 hour job regardless of which damper you use. Might as well invest in the ATI if you can.
Have the front seal replaced while the stock unit is off. Also, change the A/C belt. AND, if you are going with a supercharger, have the damper pinned to the crank no matter whether it's a stock replacement, ATI, or otherwise. This will keep it from spinning on the crank.
Just had mine done. $998 in labor (remove, replace, pin). $600 or so for the ATI plus $235 for the pin kit.
Good luck.
Have the front seal replaced while the stock unit is off. Also, change the A/C belt. AND, if you are going with a supercharger, have the damper pinned to the crank no matter whether it's a stock replacement, ATI, or otherwise. This will keep it from spinning on the crank.
Just had mine done. $998 in labor (remove, replace, pin). $600 or so for the ATI plus $235 for the pin kit.
Good luck.
01-20-2016, 07:12 PM
#5
Drifting
Just throwing this out there.
My ATI balancer broke all the bolts and separated from the hub.
I googled it when that happened and low and behold, I'm not the first.
MY broken ATI thread.
Any parts can break. If you read my thread, Unreal had his Innovators West shear bolts as well.
My ATI balancer broke all the bolts and separated from the hub.
I googled it when that happened and low and behold, I'm not the first.
MY broken ATI thread.
Any parts can break. If you read my thread, Unreal had his Innovators West shear bolts as well.
The following users liked this post:
ruff13 (01-21-2016)
01-20-2016, 08:56 PM
#6
The ATI is a great unit, but with some of the sheared bolt problems, would suggest that you get a Dayco PB1117SS instead.
http://www.daycoproducts.com/parts?c...scription=1787
[img]http://www.daycoproducts.com/dpdata/images/PB1117SSFRO45.JPG[/url]
Where you can buy it,
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pbb-pb1117ss
The Dayco PB1117SS is the powerbond race unit that is 6 rib pulley on the main side to mate the 6 ribs OEM belt, is the OEM size (not under or over sized, which those can cause problems with the stock altinator), and uses the C snap ring to retain the outer pulley to the inner pulley to solve the wobble problem.
Note, the SPL units are the Dayco units, but SLP only sells the under and over drive units instead (PBU1117SS10 and the PBU1117SS25 units under there brand name.
And again, the PB1117 "SS" unit above, and not just the PB1117 "N" oem type unit below instead. Hence not the below OEM unit that does not have the front C clip retainer.
As for removing the old unit, impact wrench to spin the nut off, then you can use a C puller to pull the old one off.
To install the new one, do not use the HB OEM nut to draw the HB on the shaft. You have to use a HB install tool so you don't end up stripping the threads out of the crank shaft.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pr...FRApaQodYewCQg
Hence the balancer is pushed on the shaft by hand, the main rod of the tool threaded all they way into the crank threads, then the large nut with bearing used to draw the HB on the shaft.
As for HB bolt (do not reused the old OEM once, a new stock OEM stretch bolt with diamond washer and loctite works fine, as the ARP Balancer Bolt Kit as well. Just remember that you will need to hold the crank from turning as you are torque wrench tightening the bolt to torque (then stretch in the case of the OEM bolt).
Really, the only hard part about replacing the HB, is getting to it, with the needed amount of room to pull it off and put it back on. Hence the steering wheel rack needs to be dropped out of the way, which means that the front sub frame has to be lowered as well (and what racks up the labor charge to change one out).
Also, when you change out the HB, make sure to change out the timing chain cover for the HB at the same time.
As for pinning, even if your not going to install a blower, still pin the HB to the crank!!!!! Just remember to only drill the crank pin channel depth enough to the pin will seat flush with the front of the unit, and don't go bulk wild drilling the channel too deep and out the back side of the HB instead/too deep into the crank for the pin channel isntead.
Of the pin channel, you can use the Key slot in the HB channel, but do use some RTV to seal the pin to channel/ HB key slot to crank (again, not so much RTV that is flowing out the back of the slot and into the chain cover void of the motor. Hence RTV dried in the motor oil is a bad thing, since it can be chewed up, then sucked up through the oil pump, and all it take to block the oil pump releif valve open (so the motor has not oil pressure) is a piece of RTV the size the head of a needle.
http://www.daycoproducts.com/parts?c...scription=1787
[img]http://www.daycoproducts.com/dpdata/images/PB1117SSFRO45.JPG[/url]
Where you can buy it,
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pbb-pb1117ss
The Dayco PB1117SS is the powerbond race unit that is 6 rib pulley on the main side to mate the 6 ribs OEM belt, is the OEM size (not under or over sized, which those can cause problems with the stock altinator), and uses the C snap ring to retain the outer pulley to the inner pulley to solve the wobble problem.
Note, the SPL units are the Dayco units, but SLP only sells the under and over drive units instead (PBU1117SS10 and the PBU1117SS25 units under there brand name.
And again, the PB1117 "SS" unit above, and not just the PB1117 "N" oem type unit below instead. Hence not the below OEM unit that does not have the front C clip retainer.
As for removing the old unit, impact wrench to spin the nut off, then you can use a C puller to pull the old one off.
To install the new one, do not use the HB OEM nut to draw the HB on the shaft. You have to use a HB install tool so you don't end up stripping the threads out of the crank shaft.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pr...FRApaQodYewCQg
Hence the balancer is pushed on the shaft by hand, the main rod of the tool threaded all they way into the crank threads, then the large nut with bearing used to draw the HB on the shaft.
As for HB bolt (do not reused the old OEM once, a new stock OEM stretch bolt with diamond washer and loctite works fine, as the ARP Balancer Bolt Kit as well. Just remember that you will need to hold the crank from turning as you are torque wrench tightening the bolt to torque (then stretch in the case of the OEM bolt).
Really, the only hard part about replacing the HB, is getting to it, with the needed amount of room to pull it off and put it back on. Hence the steering wheel rack needs to be dropped out of the way, which means that the front sub frame has to be lowered as well (and what racks up the labor charge to change one out).
Also, when you change out the HB, make sure to change out the timing chain cover for the HB at the same time.
As for pinning, even if your not going to install a blower, still pin the HB to the crank!!!!! Just remember to only drill the crank pin channel depth enough to the pin will seat flush with the front of the unit, and don't go bulk wild drilling the channel too deep and out the back side of the HB instead/too deep into the crank for the pin channel isntead.
Of the pin channel, you can use the Key slot in the HB channel, but do use some RTV to seal the pin to channel/ HB key slot to crank (again, not so much RTV that is flowing out the back of the slot and into the chain cover void of the motor. Hence RTV dried in the motor oil is a bad thing, since it can be chewed up, then sucked up through the oil pump, and all it take to block the oil pump releif valve open (so the motor has not oil pressure) is a piece of RTV the size the head of a needle.
Last edited by Dano523; 01-20-2016 at 09:20 PM.
01-21-2016, 11:28 AM
#7
The ATI is a great unit, but with some of the sheared bolt problems, would suggest that you get a Dayco PB1117SS instead.
http://www.daycoproducts.com/parts?c...scription=1787
[img]http://www.daycoproducts.com/dpdata/images/PB1117SSFRO45.JPG[/url]
Where you can buy it,
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pbb-pb1117ss
The Dayco PB1117SS is the powerbond race unit that is 6 rib pulley on the main side to mate the 6 ribs OEM belt, is the OEM size (not under or over sized, which those can cause problems with the stock altinator), and uses the C snap ring to retain the outer pulley to the inner pulley to solve the wobble problem.
Note, the SPL units are the Dayco units, but SLP only sells the under and over drive units instead (PBU1117SS10 and the PBU1117SS25 units under there brand name.
And again, the PB1117 "SS" unit above, and not just the PB1117 "N" oem type unit below instead. Hence not the below OEM unit that does not have the front C clip retainer.
As for removing the old unit, impact wrench to spin the nut off, then you can use a C puller to pull the old one off.
To install the new one, do not use the HB OEM nut to draw the HB on the shaft. You have to use a HB install tool so you don't end up stripping the threads out of the crank shaft.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pr...FRApaQodYewCQg
Hence the balancer is pushed on the shaft by hand, the main rod of the tool threaded all they way into the crank threads, then the large nut with bearing used to draw the HB on the shaft.
As for HB bolt (do not reused the old OEM once, a new stock OEM stretch bolt with diamond washer and loctite works fine, as the ARP Balancer Bolt Kit as well. Just remember that you will need to hold the crank from turning as you are torque wrench tightening the bolt to torque (then stretch in the case of the OEM bolt).
Really, the only hard part about replacing the HB, is getting to it, with the needed amount of room to pull it off and put it back on. Hence the steering wheel rack needs to be dropped out of the way, which means that the front sub frame has to be lowered as well (and what racks up the labor charge to change one out).
Also, when you change out the HB, make sure to change out the timing chain cover for the HB at the same time.
As for pinning, even if your not going to install a blower, still pin the HB to the crank!!!!! Just remember to only drill the crank pin channel depth enough to the pin will seat flush with the front of the unit, and don't go bulk wild drilling the channel too deep and out the back side of the HB instead/too deep into the crank for the pin channel isntead.
Of the pin channel, you can use the Key slot in the HB channel, but do use some RTV to seal the pin to channel/ HB key slot to crank (again, not so much RTV that is flowing out the back of the slot and into the chain cover void of the motor. Hence RTV dried in the motor oil is a bad thing, since it can be chewed up, then sucked up through the oil pump, and all it take to block the oil pump releif valve open (so the motor has not oil pressure) is a piece of RTV the size the head of a needle.
http://www.daycoproducts.com/parts?c...scription=1787
[img]http://www.daycoproducts.com/dpdata/images/PB1117SSFRO45.JPG[/url]
Where you can buy it,
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pbb-pb1117ss
The Dayco PB1117SS is the powerbond race unit that is 6 rib pulley on the main side to mate the 6 ribs OEM belt, is the OEM size (not under or over sized, which those can cause problems with the stock altinator), and uses the C snap ring to retain the outer pulley to the inner pulley to solve the wobble problem.
Note, the SPL units are the Dayco units, but SLP only sells the under and over drive units instead (PBU1117SS10 and the PBU1117SS25 units under there brand name.
And again, the PB1117 "SS" unit above, and not just the PB1117 "N" oem type unit below instead. Hence not the below OEM unit that does not have the front C clip retainer.
As for removing the old unit, impact wrench to spin the nut off, then you can use a C puller to pull the old one off.
To install the new one, do not use the HB OEM nut to draw the HB on the shaft. You have to use a HB install tool so you don't end up stripping the threads out of the crank shaft.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pr...FRApaQodYewCQg
Hence the balancer is pushed on the shaft by hand, the main rod of the tool threaded all they way into the crank threads, then the large nut with bearing used to draw the HB on the shaft.
As for HB bolt (do not reused the old OEM once, a new stock OEM stretch bolt with diamond washer and loctite works fine, as the ARP Balancer Bolt Kit as well. Just remember that you will need to hold the crank from turning as you are torque wrench tightening the bolt to torque (then stretch in the case of the OEM bolt).
Really, the only hard part about replacing the HB, is getting to it, with the needed amount of room to pull it off and put it back on. Hence the steering wheel rack needs to be dropped out of the way, which means that the front sub frame has to be lowered as well (and what racks up the labor charge to change one out).
Also, when you change out the HB, make sure to change out the timing chain cover for the HB at the same time.
As for pinning, even if your not going to install a blower, still pin the HB to the crank!!!!! Just remember to only drill the crank pin channel depth enough to the pin will seat flush with the front of the unit, and don't go bulk wild drilling the channel too deep and out the back side of the HB instead/too deep into the crank for the pin channel isntead.
Of the pin channel, you can use the Key slot in the HB channel, but do use some RTV to seal the pin to channel/ HB key slot to crank (again, not so much RTV that is flowing out the back of the slot and into the chain cover void of the motor. Hence RTV dried in the motor oil is a bad thing, since it can be chewed up, then sucked up through the oil pump, and all it take to block the oil pump releif valve open (so the motor has not oil pressure) is a piece of RTV the size the head of a needle.
