T1gra

I've had my '05 just two weeks now. It's my first manual. I've been practicing a few times a week for the past year on a Mazda 3 but as you know, the Vette is a different machine.

For context, I'm driving it on my daily commute: 15 miles in the SoCal suburbs - five-lane boulevards with 45-55mph speed limits, heavy traffic, and 23 stoplights between my home and work. It's not intended to be my daily driver but I need to get better at driving it so I decided that I better practice. A lot.

1. Shifting into first. I feel pretty caught up on all the excellent past threads. On my commute I get locked out all the time. Sitting for more than three minutes at a red light will nearly guarantee it.

I've been using a couple different techniques:

- Let the clutch out and stomp on it again. Really try to force the shift. After my reading, now I know better.

- Just start in second. Is this bad for the car?

Today I tried shifting into second, then first. This workaround seemed to work well. It already takes me so long to get going into first, but at least I know I'm not forcing it now.

I know that I should be downshifting all the way and maybe even keeping it first with the clutch depressed at the light, but I'm not talented enough to do that yet. Plus, with the long lights, it seems like I might be wearing out the throwout bearing and pressure plate by just sitting on the clutch like that. So I've been coasting the last 10 mph or so and waiting in neutral. But then I get locked out.

2. Getting better at shifting. I feel so slow and herky-jerky. I stall the car once or twice a day when trying to get going after a stop light while waiting on a hill. I feel so scared that I'm hurting the car . Trying to get into the garage, up a steep driveway hill, is nervewracking.

Honestly every time I drive the car (twice a day now) I get more and more nervous that I'm hurting it.

I don't know if what I'm experiencing with the shifter and clutch is normal. Both makes all sorts of sounds that the Mazda doesn't make. It doesn't sound broken at all, just mechanic... I suspect that they're normal. Should it really just take some effort to drive? I can be down with that... I'm just worried.

I really want to become a good driver. I want to be able to take advantage of the awesome power and incredible machine that I'm fortunate to have. Getting to a point where I can, say, double-clutch from second to first quickly and smoothly seems impossible. Do you have any suggestions? Where should I start?

dpigguy

Not being able to easily shift in to first is not normal. You may have a linkage alignment issue or a transmission issue that, needs to be investigated by a good mechanic. As for starting on a hill or a steep driveway, simply engage and hold the parking brake and then as you let out on the clutch to go, slowly release the park. It takes some practice to get the timing down so practice on a flat surface first. You'll get it! Enjoy the ride.

919cw313

I'd find a local corvette club and have a member with experience with manual C6's take it for a drive.
There might be something wrong with the car or it could be user error.

Lazarus Long

I am fairly inexperienced myself, I have a C5 with the M6.

I tend not to downshift much, unless the engine speed drops down below 1000 rpm. When coming up to a stop light, I usually push the clutch in, shift to neutral, clutch out. Then just coast the rest of the way. I think sitting with your foot on the clutch puts wear on one of the clutch bearings.

When the light turns green, clutch in, shift into 1st, and pull away. Of course, starting from a dead stop is the hardest to do. Occasionally it is reluctant to go into 1st because things aren't lined up quite right. Moving the shifter between 2 and 1 seems to fix that. You shouldn't have to force anything.

Starting on a hill is a challenge. I have a tendency to want to over-rev while letting the clutch out. I shouldn't do that, it is more important to quickly get the car in gear. That requires practice so that you get a better feel for where in the pedal travel the clutch starts to engage. This will help you more quickly get into gear without rolling backward far.

I have done some experimenting, the C5 will start from 2nd and 3rd with no troubles. The C6 has more torque and power, so it should have no problems also. I tend to go 1-2-4 (skip 3rd).

I don't have a good feel for how much to blip the throttle to rev match on downshifts. I also haven't figured out the heel-toe downshift thing. Downshifting more than 1 gear is more difficult to do smoothly (for example, 4 to 2 is harder than 4 to 3).

Don't try to rush it, take your time. Slow is smooth...smooth is fast. Or something like that.

tealex

My C6 is hard to get into 1st gear when it is cold. I usually just slide it into 3rd, then go into 1st just putting a little pressure on the shifter and letting it slide into gear on it's own. Don't force it in. A little practice taking off will solve the stalling problem. I always taught my sons and wife by taking them to a flat parking lot and with the car in 1st gear and giving it NO gas, just let out on the clutch until the car starts to roll, hold the clutch there for a few more seconds, then let it out the rest of the way, (NO GAS). Doing this a number of times will get you use to the clutch and where it starts to engage. Try it, it works! Enjoy the car, they were ment to give people who like to drive a lot of fun.

cclive

We have many forum members in Orange county...I agree that having one of them drive the car with you is a great idea...they can tell you immediately whether everything is normal or not...sounds, vibrations etc etc. This is a great idea!

One I can think of is RRVettes, Rich...keeper of the FAQ here...

Patsgarage

I agree with the advice above, that does not sound normal. How does the clutch fluid look ? Search "Ranger method" for how to change it. I would not start in second, just because you can do something dosen't mean you should do it. I would also practice during low traffic (if there is such a thing in CA) hours, the stress of holding up traffic is probably not helping.

Tyler_RN_EMT

This is excellent advise! And something I figured out on my own... Go somewhere calm preferably a parking lot with no obstacles. Stop and put car in neutral with no brake or clutch. Next put clutch to floor and shift into 1st gear. Slowly and I mean slowly let clutch out until the car starts to roll then push clutch back in a little until you feel the car slow.. Keep repeating this untill you get a feel for that magic spot in the clutch pedal where the the clutch grabs and the car begins to move. Once you feel comfortable with this you will get some muscle memory in your left foot/leg so that you can only depress the clutch just passed that magic spot when you're worried about rolling back or killing the car. Now when the light turns you only have to let out the clutch a fraction of an inch rather than from all the way from the floor and you will begin moving forward instead of rolling back. When I first started I thought I always had to have the clutch all the way to the floor and make it travel it's full path from floor to all the way out. This isn't the case. Once you have that magic spot mastered you will feel much more comfortable driving the car!! Once you are more comfortable you will then be able to go through these steps faster and more confidently and can ease off of letting the clutch drag and this will prolong the life of the clutch... But better to use the clutch up faster than wreck the car trying to prolong clutch life.

Killing it in 1st gear is often the result of letting the clutch out too early... When I first learned to drive stick I always felt like I let the clutch out slowly until it engaged and I started to move a little but then I felt like I had to completely come off clutch as fast as possible... This is wrong and will cause the car to jerk and stall. The trick with that is to continue letting off the clutch pedal relatively slow even AFTER you start moving.

Keep your head up... You will get used to driving the manual in short time and the thinking about every step will fade away and it will all become natural! It's very easy to over think everything at the beginning... A lot of driving a manual is about gut instinct.... Listen and feel the car... Think less and it will come to you quicker than over thinking every step!

If you're anything like me... Once you have it down.. You won't ever want to drive a sports car with anything other than an old fashioned manual transmission!!! They all just seem so boring with an auto!


Tyler

ArcticLS2

Just a few thoughts...

1. A lot of people will tell you that sitting at a light in neutral is dangerous. Some will disagree, but I am one of those people that will tell you that it is in fact dangerous. Your car should always be in the appropriate gear to move in a deliberate fashion in the current moment. I can see no worse situation then seeing something coming up in the rear view and having to fiddle with shifting (a self admitted issue of yours) in order to stay safe and get out of the way.

2. You should look into the CAGs skip shift eliminator. That will solve your lock out of 2nd gear problem for around 20 bucks I think. It is just a resistor of sorts. Easy to put in easy to take out.

3. Just keep practicing. I like the flat parking lot method for figuring out the clutch. I have taught several people this way.

just my 2 cents...enjoy the car they are awesome!

JerryC5

I am agreeing with the practice of learning the clutch on an empty lot, by keeping the right foot OFF the gas, and letting the clutch out slowly to get started.

When I went to the Bragg-Smith school at Parhump (now Spring Mountain, Fellows), we spent the first hour in the car, learning the clutch this way. Yeah, a whole hour. It works.

The other thing they taught us is DO NOT downshift to slow the car down. That's what the brakes are for. They constantly reiterated this, and said that replacing brakes is a lot less expensive than replacing transmission parts.

Invest in a skip shift eliminator. Once you get the hang of the shifting and clutch, you won't need it, but it may help now.

As to sitting at a stop light with the clutch in or out........... I do not believe you can hurt this car by simply using it. Stop worrying about the car, and practice, practice, practice.

Mr.Nubain

I own an 05 as well and it does have trouble some times getting into first from a dead-stop. I've contacted GM about it and it is a known issue with the 05, it sucks because sometimes when you're in a hurry and you cant get into gear you hold up traffic, clunk out etc. It's a common issue with 05 M6's.

cclive

I agree. I did the parking lot on a sunday with my 16 year old nephew on a beautiful day with the top down. I didn't want him to be one of those people who doesn't know how to drive a car with a clutch. Because of the light weight and torque of the C6, it is an easy car on which to learn the clutch. A car that requires lots of rpm to use the clutch is much more difficult.

ArcticLS2

I have nevvvvvver heard of engine braking by down shifting as being bad. A proper downshift will in no way damage the transmission or engine. It just slows you down gradually. This method also always keeps you in the appropriate gear vs your speed. However, I would suggest getting comfortable with shifting while driving before moving on to engine braking and downshifting.

You certainly are not going to hurt the car by holding in the clutch at a light and keeping it in gear (ie. being prepared to move). Leaving it in neutral also will not hurt the car, you just cannot react as quickly to a situation. Your choice there.

I agree, you aren't going to hurt the car. I would guess it was stalled many times before you purchased it.

UnOvertime

I bought my z06 as my first stick shift car and learned on it.

All of the advice above is a good place to start. I first started out stalling the car a few times a day and would get nervous at every single stop now I don't even think about it. The nice thing about this car is that it requires 0 gas if you just let off the clutch slowly. Starting in second or third is doable, but requires you to slip the clutch a little more which is not a great thing.

I have no issues getting into first, but for stopping I usually apply the brakes to slow down then push in the clutch and shift to the appropriate gear to for the engine speed (just in case a light goes green or someone behind you does something crazy, being in neutral you will panic, smash the gas and go absolutely nowhere). Right before I stop I will either shift into first if I know the light will be short and stand on the clutch or shift to neutral and let off the clutch if I know the light will be a long one.

Just keep practicing and you will notice that you get better and before long won't even think about it. You will get in other cars and smash your foot through the floor looking for a clutch, I do it all the time in work vehicles.

Rocketmanwpb

I generally put it in third before I go to first, seems to synch the gears better. I have 101K on the original clutch. Tend to let it out easy then accelerate from a stop.

45gunner

It is said that a good pilot does not get into an airplane, he puts in on.

I think this axiom can be applied to Corvette drivers. One does not get into the car but, rather puts it on.

You are doing the right thing by practicing. These cars are made tough. You can baby it in the beginning while you get to know the car and develop a "feel" for it. Once you are comfortable, let 'er rip.

It took me a couple of weeks of constant driving to really develop a feel for my C6. It has been 10 years since my last Vette. In the interim I drove such cars as a Jag XK Convert, BMW 640i, etc. Now I am back into what I really wanted to do and driving it like I stole it. Winding up the RPM to hear the beefy tones of the exhaust, feeling the torque and the power. Coming to a stop involves downshifting all the way down thru the gears. This involves some planning and getting back into the enjoyment of driving. After all, isn't this why you bought a manual transmission?

cclive

One thing I have found is that you have much better control of the clutch if you place your heel on the floor and pivot on the heel when pushing it, rather than trying to control it using your entire leg...works for me, give it a try.

T1gra

Thank you so much to everyone for your advice and reassurance!

I feel better knowing it's typical to take a while to get used to the car, and that it's okay to not drive it perfectly and just trust that the car will be okay while I'm learning and figuring out where that contact range is.

Having someone experienced in driving a C6 with the manual T56 drive my car to check it out is a fantastic idea. Hopefully I'll be able to meet up with some fellow owners at a drive or gathering soon; I know there are quite a few Orange County events.

I read up on the Ranger method (and the modified version) and have ordered the supplies. I'm looking forward to caring for my car.

@cclive - I'll definitely try that! Pivoting from the heel will probably be a lot easier for me to control. It's been a little difficult getting used to sitting so close to the pedals (coming from an automatic) but I'll try moving up even further to get my heel to the floor.

@ArcticLS2 - yes, I agree that being a sitting duck is dangerous. I'm going to try to stay in gear until I have stopped cars all around me, then will probably shift to neutral so my clutch leg can rest... the lights really are quite long. The lockout I'm getting is from N to 1; the car already has the CAGS 1-4 eliminator. Shifting into 2 first has helped. Next I want to try downshifting into 1 before a complete stop to ensure that the synchro is already aligned. Double-clutching seems to be the best option but I need to master basic driving first.

@Tyler - thanks for the detailed description of how to practice. You're right, I jumped right to trying to letting the clutch out quickly and all the way from the floor. And yes - I already know that manual is the only way to go. That's a big reason why I was looking for and bought my C6 in the first place. A successful cascade up through the gears with the roar of the engine as a backdrop feels so awesome and fulfilling... Lol.

@JerryC5 - Using the brakes instead of downshifting to slow the car is what makes sense to me. I guess then that downshifting is what you do to keep the car in gear at the appropriate speed while you are using the brakes to slow... it's going to take me a while to get good enough to coordinate all that action. I'd certainly rather use my brakes (and replace them) than incur the additional higher-rev engine wear and clutch/transmission wear and stress.

Patsgarage

I think it is mentioned in the ranger threads, but be very careful not to spill any brake fluid on the paint.

T1gra

Quick question: say I'm sitting at a light with the clutch out, in neutral, and have been sitting there for a while. Why would double-clutching help to align the synchro of the first gear? If the point of double-clutching is to "prepare" the speed of the next gear to match the engine, but I'm already stopped and sitting with the clutch out, there doesn't seem to be any actual difference between simply blipping the engine or putting the clutch in, letting it out, and then blipping the engine. Moreover, (independent of double-clutching?) if the problem is that there is a speed mismatch between the engine (idle) and the gear I want (1st - currently at its lowest speed), don't I make that difference bigger by spiking the RPMs? I'm confused. ;

So why have I read that one of the suggestions to avoid N-to-1 lockout is to double-clutch?.... Hm.