Track car GS v. Z06
06-30-2016, 01:55 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Track car GS v. Z06
Which C6 would be a better car to make into a track car? GS is less so a built motor could be done v. a Z06 already has the LS 7 but costs more. Then would suspension and brakes need upgrading in either or both?
06-30-2016, 06:20 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Same brakes, same tires. More weight in the GS.also lower gearing and better reliability in the GS. The Z06 should be incrementally faster. Not sure that is worth the extra $, insurance, and the head problems of the LS7. Your call. I sure do love how the LS7 can make 600 NA hp, but you don't need it on a track, it's just fun.
I have Z06 brakes on my base C6 and they are inadequate.
I have Z06 brakes on my base C6 and they are inadequate.
06-30-2016, 07:32 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
FWIW - I have a GS, if I had planned to do a lot of track work, I would have purchased a Z06. Might as well have the extra cubes and HP as well as the lighter car. The HP you can make with $, the lightness will be harder.
06-30-2016, 12:02 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 991
Received 104 Likes
on
92 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
A C5 Z06 is the better track car IMO if you're specifically wanting a Vette for track purposes.
If it has to be a C6, I'd go for the GS. Leave the power alone, get good racing brake fluid and pads, good tires, add external oil cooler, better radiator, better suspension...pretty much in that order. Just my opinion!
If it has to be a C6, I'd go for the GS. Leave the power alone, get good racing brake fluid and pads, good tires, add external oil cooler, better radiator, better suspension...pretty much in that order. Just my opinion!
The following users liked this post:
bgspot (06-30-2016)
06-30-2016, 12:33 PM
#6
Intermediate
Here was my thought process. Z06 is lighter, has a stiffer frame, better cooling, better brakes. The GS is cheaper, easy to mod (especially the engine) and supposedly more reliable.
The bottom line is that it's easy to mod suspension or brake components to move up in performance but not so with the foundation of the car which is the frame, so I went with the one that was "purpose built" for the track from the factory and that's the Z.
The bottom line is that it's easy to mod suspension or brake components to move up in performance but not so with the foundation of the car which is the frame, so I went with the one that was "purpose built" for the track from the factory and that's the Z.
06-30-2016, 12:43 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 991
Received 104 Likes
on
92 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
If truly serious about tracking and having a dedicated car for it, I'd go even further and say stay away from a production Vette altogether and just buy a purpose built track car. That's what all the race junkies would probably recommend.
Me, I don't have the budget for a dedicated track car and has to be shared with daily driver. That's what my base does, and does it pretty well..but it took a while and lots of $ to get it and keep it there.
If I could do it again, knowing how I would use it, I'd go with C5Z06. Looks pretty much the same as C6 IMO, but handles the track like a boss with little fix-its and mods needed.
Me, I don't have the budget for a dedicated track car and has to be shared with daily driver. That's what my base does, and does it pretty well..but it took a while and lots of $ to get it and keep it there.
If I could do it again, knowing how I would use it, I'd go with C5Z06. Looks pretty much the same as C6 IMO, but handles the track like a boss with little fix-its and mods needed.
The following users liked this post:
bgspot (06-30-2016)
06-30-2016, 12:57 PM
#8
Intermediate
If truly serious about tracking and having a dedicated car for it, I'd go even further and say stay away from a production Vette altogether and just buy a purpose built track car. That's what all the race junkies would probably recommend.
Me, I don't have the budget for a dedicated track car and has to be shared with daily driver. That's what my base does, and does it pretty well..but it took a while and lots of $ to get it and keep it there.
If I could do it again, knowing how I would use it, I'd go with C5Z06. Looks pretty much the same as C6 IMO, but handles the track like a boss with little fix-its and mods needed.
Me, I don't have the budget for a dedicated track car and has to be shared with daily driver. That's what my base does, and does it pretty well..but it took a while and lots of $ to get it and keep it there.
If I could do it again, knowing how I would use it, I'd go with C5Z06. Looks pretty much the same as C6 IMO, but handles the track like a boss with little fix-its and mods needed.
06-30-2016, 01:18 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 991
Received 104 Likes
on
92 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...es-c6-z06.html
However, I would definitely recommend posting in the Autocross/Road Race forum so you can hear from the true experts with history and experience to guide you
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...roadracing-23/
Me, I just know how much I've spent to get my C6 near where I need it. If I had bought a C5Z06, I would have saved money and not really compromised much. At my skill level, which was almost zero when I begin to my current interrmediate...the C5 is what I should have started with. Since they are mostly not losing much depreciation anymore, I think I could have started with a C5 and then later sold it to move up if I chose to.
The consumables do add up..big time. Tires, brakes, fluid changes, not to mention upgrades. The buy in for a C5 is cheaper, and so is everything else. For something to have fun in, I personally believe the C5 should have been what I bought. Too late for me, but do some reading, ask questions, and you decide what's best for you.
The C6 is freaking awesome, no doubt about that though. Love it very much!
06-30-2016, 01:20 PM
#11
06-30-2016, 04:41 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
I have no idea how to multi-quote so in order in response to several point/ questions.
1) You do not need any more than 400 rwhp to go as fast as anyone at a race track. Going fast at the track is about car setup, not power. Brakes, tires (compound, not width), alignment are the important factors. I am not some bad-A track guy but my years on motorcycles make me not half bad. I tracked my previous Hyundai Genesis 2x. And I destroyed all manner of cars on a tight track (Harris Hill), Z06s, GT3s, everything I encountered). The only car faster? An instructor in a 180 hp Honda. Then I tracked my BASE Vette at the same track a handful of times. More *** kickage of all the other cars, C7Zs, Ferraris, fancy Vipers, all were road blocks. The car that was faster than me? A BRZ. Power is a BLAST, but not needed to go really fast at the race track.
2) The Z06 does NOT have a stiffer frame. It has a more flexy frame that is lighter and to achieve the needed stiffness GM had to bolt on the removable roof. A steel framed GS is as stiff as an aluminum framed Z06.
3) The lower gears occurs in the transmission on the manuals. The Z51/ GS has the lowest trans gears, the base model is next highest, then the Z06, then the Zr1 except the Zr1 has a common sense 6th gear that you can reach top speed in, something else none of the other models have. The gear ratios in Vettes suck imo. I mean they are geared to go 250 mph for Christ sakes. But when you regear the rear ends (not available in the GS or Z06 btw) then the gear spacing can be a bit weird. The ideal gearing set up I'm guessing would be a Zr1 trans, 4.10 gears, and 500-550 rwhp. That would work well.
1) You do not need any more than 400 rwhp to go as fast as anyone at a race track. Going fast at the track is about car setup, not power. Brakes, tires (compound, not width), alignment are the important factors. I am not some bad-A track guy but my years on motorcycles make me not half bad. I tracked my previous Hyundai Genesis 2x. And I destroyed all manner of cars on a tight track (Harris Hill), Z06s, GT3s, everything I encountered). The only car faster? An instructor in a 180 hp Honda. Then I tracked my BASE Vette at the same track a handful of times. More *** kickage of all the other cars, C7Zs, Ferraris, fancy Vipers, all were road blocks. The car that was faster than me? A BRZ. Power is a BLAST, but not needed to go really fast at the race track.
2) The Z06 does NOT have a stiffer frame. It has a more flexy frame that is lighter and to achieve the needed stiffness GM had to bolt on the removable roof. A steel framed GS is as stiff as an aluminum framed Z06.
3) The lower gears occurs in the transmission on the manuals. The Z51/ GS has the lowest trans gears, the base model is next highest, then the Z06, then the Zr1 except the Zr1 has a common sense 6th gear that you can reach top speed in, something else none of the other models have. The gear ratios in Vettes suck imo. I mean they are geared to go 250 mph for Christ sakes. But when you regear the rear ends (not available in the GS or Z06 btw) then the gear spacing can be a bit weird. The ideal gearing set up I'm guessing would be a Zr1 trans, 4.10 gears, and 500-550 rwhp. That would work well.
06-30-2016, 06:42 PM
#14
Drifting
Member Since: Jan 2001
Location: palm harbor/murphy Fl/NC
Posts: 1,986
Received 184 Likes
on
137 Posts
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
St. Jude Donor '11, '14
I would get a base car. Get all the weight out you can. Make it safe, at least roll bar,harness,racing seat and Hans. Do brakes and suspension. Don't get slicks until you have the alignment,suspension and u r very comfortable trying to find a one or two seconds.
The car will lead you from their. Ducts,coolers and the like. You r after reliability.
Good luck
Robin
The car will lead you from their. Ducts,coolers and the like. You r after reliability.
Good luck
Robin
06-30-2016, 09:30 PM
#15
Safety Car
Thanks for the input. Your post has some great info.
I have no idea how to multi-quote so in order in response to several point/ questions.
1) You do not need any more than 400 rwhp to go as fast as anyone at a race track. Going fast at the track is about car setup, not power. Brakes, tires (compound, not width), alignment are the important factors. I am not some bad-A track guy but my years on motorcycles make me not half bad. I tracked my previous Hyundai Genesis 2x. And I destroyed all manner of cars on a tight track (Harris Hill), Z06s, GT3s, everything I encountered). The only car faster? An instructor in a 180 hp Honda. Then I tracked my BASE Vette at the same track a handful of times. More *** kickage of all the other cars, C7Zs, Ferraris, fancy Vipers, all were road blocks. The car that was faster than me? A BRZ. Power is a BLAST, but not needed to go really fast at the race track.
2) The Z06 does NOT have a stiffer frame. It has a more flexy frame that is lighter and to achieve the needed stiffness GM had to bolt on the removable roof. A steel framed GS is as stiff as an aluminum framed Z06.
3) The lower gears occurs in the transmission on the manuals. The Z51/ GS has the lowest trans gears, the base model is next highest, then the Z06, then the Zr1 except the Zr1 has a common sense 6th gear that you can reach top speed in, something else none of the other models have. The gear ratios in Vettes suck imo. I mean they are geared to go 250 mph for Christ sakes. But when you regear the rear ends (not available in the GS or Z06 btw) then the gear spacing can be a bit weird. The ideal gearing set up I'm guessing would be a Zr1 trans, 4.10 gears, and 500-550 rwhp. That would work well.
1) You do not need any more than 400 rwhp to go as fast as anyone at a race track. Going fast at the track is about car setup, not power. Brakes, tires (compound, not width), alignment are the important factors. I am not some bad-A track guy but my years on motorcycles make me not half bad. I tracked my previous Hyundai Genesis 2x. And I destroyed all manner of cars on a tight track (Harris Hill), Z06s, GT3s, everything I encountered). The only car faster? An instructor in a 180 hp Honda. Then I tracked my BASE Vette at the same track a handful of times. More *** kickage of all the other cars, C7Zs, Ferraris, fancy Vipers, all were road blocks. The car that was faster than me? A BRZ. Power is a BLAST, but not needed to go really fast at the race track.
2) The Z06 does NOT have a stiffer frame. It has a more flexy frame that is lighter and to achieve the needed stiffness GM had to bolt on the removable roof. A steel framed GS is as stiff as an aluminum framed Z06.
3) The lower gears occurs in the transmission on the manuals. The Z51/ GS has the lowest trans gears, the base model is next highest, then the Z06, then the Zr1 except the Zr1 has a common sense 6th gear that you can reach top speed in, something else none of the other models have. The gear ratios in Vettes suck imo. I mean they are geared to go 250 mph for Christ sakes. But when you regear the rear ends (not available in the GS or Z06 btw) then the gear spacing can be a bit weird. The ideal gearing set up I'm guessing would be a Zr1 trans, 4.10 gears, and 500-550 rwhp. That would work well.
06-30-2016, 11:07 PM
#16
Banned Scam/Spammer
Here was my thought process. Z06 is lighter, has a stiffer frame, better cooling, better brakes. The GS is cheaper, easy to mod (especially the engine) and supposedly more reliable.
The bottom line is that it's easy to mod suspension or brake components to move up in performance but not so with the foundation of the car which is the frame, so I went with the one that was "purpose built" for the track from the factory and that's the Z.
The bottom line is that it's easy to mod suspension or brake components to move up in performance but not so with the foundation of the car which is the frame, so I went with the one that was "purpose built" for the track from the factory and that's the Z.
07-01-2016, 04:09 AM
#17
Intermediate
07-01-2016, 04:34 AM
#18
Intermediate
I have no idea how to multi-quote so in order in response to several point/ questions.
1) You do not need any more than 400 rwhp to go as fast as anyone at a race track. Going fast at the track is about car setup, not power. Brakes, tires (compound, not width), alignment are the important factors. I am not some bad-A track guy but my years on motorcycles make me not half bad. I tracked my previous Hyundai Genesis 2x. And I destroyed all manner of cars on a tight track (Harris Hill), Z06s, GT3s, everything I encountered). The only car faster? An instructor in a 180 hp Honda. Then I tracked my BASE Vette at the same track a handful of times. More *** kickage of all the other cars, C7Zs, Ferraris, fancy Vipers, all were road blocks. The car that was faster than me? A BRZ. Power is a BLAST, but not needed to go really fast at the race track.
2) The Z06 does NOT have a stiffer frame. It has a more flexy frame that is lighter and to achieve the needed stiffness GM had to bolt on the removable roof. A steel framed GS is as stiff as an aluminum framed Z06.
3) The lower gears occurs in the transmission on the manuals. The Z51/ GS has the lowest trans gears, the base model is next highest, then the Z06, then the Zr1 except the Zr1 has a common sense 6th gear that you can reach top speed in, something else none of the other models have. The gear ratios in Vettes suck imo. I mean they are geared to go 250 mph for Christ sakes. But when you regear the rear ends (not available in the GS or Z06 btw) then the gear spacing can be a bit weird. The ideal gearing set up I'm guessing would be a Zr1 trans, 4.10 gears, and 500-550 rwhp. That would work well.
1) You do not need any more than 400 rwhp to go as fast as anyone at a race track. Going fast at the track is about car setup, not power. Brakes, tires (compound, not width), alignment are the important factors. I am not some bad-A track guy but my years on motorcycles make me not half bad. I tracked my previous Hyundai Genesis 2x. And I destroyed all manner of cars on a tight track (Harris Hill), Z06s, GT3s, everything I encountered). The only car faster? An instructor in a 180 hp Honda. Then I tracked my BASE Vette at the same track a handful of times. More *** kickage of all the other cars, C7Zs, Ferraris, fancy Vipers, all were road blocks. The car that was faster than me? A BRZ. Power is a BLAST, but not needed to go really fast at the race track.
2) The Z06 does NOT have a stiffer frame. It has a more flexy frame that is lighter and to achieve the needed stiffness GM had to bolt on the removable roof. A steel framed GS is as stiff as an aluminum framed Z06.
3) The lower gears occurs in the transmission on the manuals. The Z51/ GS has the lowest trans gears, the base model is next highest, then the Z06, then the Zr1 except the Zr1 has a common sense 6th gear that you can reach top speed in, something else none of the other models have. The gear ratios in Vettes suck imo. I mean they are geared to go 250 mph for Christ sakes. But when you regear the rear ends (not available in the GS or Z06 btw) then the gear spacing can be a bit weird. The ideal gearing set up I'm guessing would be a Zr1 trans, 4.10 gears, and 500-550 rwhp. That would work well.
"A new hydroformed frame was constructed from annealed, 4mm-thick 5745 aluminum alloy. The standard C5/C6 steel frame is 3 mm thick and weighs 502 pounds, while the Z06 frame is 4 mm thick and tips the scales at 392 pounds (22.5 percent lighter). Even better, the Z06 frame is 50 percent stronger in bending resistance and torsional stiffness. Continuing the theme of ongoing improvement, it's also the first car to use laser welding and self-piercing rivets in a mass-production environment. The final result is that the Z06 Corvette tips the scales at just 3,130 pounds."
07-01-2016, 06:48 AM
#20
Team Owner
Concerning point 2, I have read different during my research. Here's a passage from a piece called "Corvette frame: Good foundation" on Superchevy:
"A new hydroformed frame was constructed from annealed, 4mm-thick 5745 aluminum alloy. The standard C5/C6 steel frame is 3 mm thick and weighs 502 pounds, while the Z06 frame is 4 mm thick and tips the scales at 392 pounds (22.5 percent lighter). Even better, the Z06 frame is 50 percent stronger in bending resistance and torsional stiffness. Continuing the theme of ongoing improvement, it's also the first car to use laser welding and self-piercing rivets in a mass-production environment. The final result is that the Z06 Corvette tips the scales at just 3,130 pounds."
"A new hydroformed frame was constructed from annealed, 4mm-thick 5745 aluminum alloy. The standard C5/C6 steel frame is 3 mm thick and weighs 502 pounds, while the Z06 frame is 4 mm thick and tips the scales at 392 pounds (22.5 percent lighter). Even better, the Z06 frame is 50 percent stronger in bending resistance and torsional stiffness. Continuing the theme of ongoing improvement, it's also the first car to use laser welding and self-piercing rivets in a mass-production environment. The final result is that the Z06 Corvette tips the scales at just 3,130 pounds."