[ZR1] Jim Mero
04-30-2009, 02:46 PM
#1
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Jim Mero
Sorry if this has been addressed before.
I read about Jim Mero's assault on the Nuerburgring a few months ago and I was wondering if anyone had more information on his race/test experience. I've read the reasons why Chevrolet chooses to use engineers rather than professional wheelmen for their hot laps, but the time just seemed pretty dang good for "just" an amateur. The LA Times reported that Jim has amateur open wheel and NASCAR-type circle track competition (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/upto...ro-a-conv.html). However, I've seen this picture:
http://www.nogaroblue.com/crap/mero.jpg
And read this link:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...rburgring.html
This, supposedly, is Jim from the early nineties on the Nuerburgring. Furthermore, I've read that he ran at one of the 24H of Nuerburgring races.
Does anyone have more information on this picture and on Jim's race history? Is he, as the LA Times would lead us to believe, a mild-mannered amateur or is he a professional in engineer's clothing?
I read about Jim Mero's assault on the Nuerburgring a few months ago and I was wondering if anyone had more information on his race/test experience. I've read the reasons why Chevrolet chooses to use engineers rather than professional wheelmen for their hot laps, but the time just seemed pretty dang good for "just" an amateur. The LA Times reported that Jim has amateur open wheel and NASCAR-type circle track competition (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/upto...ro-a-conv.html). However, I've seen this picture:
http://www.nogaroblue.com/crap/mero.jpg
And read this link:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...rburgring.html
This, supposedly, is Jim from the early nineties on the Nuerburgring. Furthermore, I've read that he ran at one of the 24H of Nuerburgring races.
Does anyone have more information on this picture and on Jim's race history? Is he, as the LA Times would lead us to believe, a mild-mannered amateur or is he a professional in engineer's clothing?
Last edited by taiwaneseterror; 04-30-2009 at 04:41 PM.
05-03-2009, 02:06 AM
#2
Platinum Supporting Dealership
I think I read that Mero once competed in the 24 hours of Le Mans. Could have been the late 70's.
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05-07-2009, 04:43 AM
#4
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Because it's interesting and I'm interested in it?
Jim Mero has put the second fastest time in a production car on the Nuerburgring. That's amazing. I like Corvettes, which is why I'm on this forum asking about him and not on a Viper forum asking about the driver of the ACR.
So, if anyone has information about Jim's competition history or, preferably, more information about the picture, I'd really appreciate it!
Jim Mero has put the second fastest time in a production car on the Nuerburgring. That's amazing. I like Corvettes, which is why I'm on this forum asking about him and not on a Viper forum asking about the driver of the ACR.
So, if anyone has information about Jim's competition history or, preferably, more information about the picture, I'd really appreciate it!
05-07-2009, 10:26 AM
#5
That photo was taken at Le Mans in the mid 90’s. Mero drove with John Paul Jr. and another driver I can’t remember for Doug Rippie in an under-funded effort. It was a C4 ZR1 with an LT5 that was always plagued with engine problems.
I heard him speak at the Corvette Corral at the Detroit Grand Prix last year. He has done a lot of SCCA stuff and Late Model racing at local tracks. He said he has over 10,000 laps in Corvettes going back to the C4 days. Over 1000 laps on the Nurburgring. When he talked about the Nurburgring lap, he was pretty humble, giving most of the credit to the Corvette engineering and management organization.
He seemed like a pretty nice guy to me.
I heard him speak at the Corvette Corral at the Detroit Grand Prix last year. He has done a lot of SCCA stuff and Late Model racing at local tracks. He said he has over 10,000 laps in Corvettes going back to the C4 days. Over 1000 laps on the Nurburgring. When he talked about the Nurburgring lap, he was pretty humble, giving most of the credit to the Corvette engineering and management organization.
He seemed like a pretty nice guy to me.
05-07-2009, 02:53 PM
#6
Racer
Jim Mero is an accomplished factory test driver.
I understand Corvette Racings own Jan Magnuson had a run at the "ring". However, something interferred with an official time. He was however some 2-4 seconds faster than Mero if memory serves.
I understand Corvette Racings own Jan Magnuson had a run at the "ring". However, something interferred with an official time. He was however some 2-4 seconds faster than Mero if memory serves.
05-07-2009, 03:05 PM
#7
I was like kewl. We are very close to the record, a couple of tenths. But after investigating it, turns out it was false. Then I was bummed out.
Last edited by Naeblis; 05-08-2009 at 12:56 AM.
05-08-2009, 07:36 AM
#9
Team Owner
05-08-2009, 10:04 AM
#10
Former Vendor
That photo was taken at Le Mans in the mid 90’s. Mero drove with John Paul Jr. and another driver I can’t remember for Doug Rippie in an under-funded effort. It was a C4 ZR1 with an LT5 that was always plagued with engine problems.
I heard him speak at the Corvette Corral at the Detroit Grand Prix last year. He has done a lot of SCCA stuff and Late Model racing at local tracks. He said he has over 10,000 laps in Corvettes going back to the C4 days. Over 1000 laps on the Nurburgring. When he talked about the Nurburgring lap, he was pretty humble, giving most of the credit to the Corvette engineering and management organization.
He seemed like a pretty nice guy to me.
I heard him speak at the Corvette Corral at the Detroit Grand Prix last year. He has done a lot of SCCA stuff and Late Model racing at local tracks. He said he has over 10,000 laps in Corvettes going back to the C4 days. Over 1000 laps on the Nurburgring. When he talked about the Nurburgring lap, he was pretty humble, giving most of the credit to the Corvette engineering and management organization.
He seemed like a pretty nice guy to me.
Randy
05-08-2009, 11:19 AM
#11
One other thing. After his speech at the Detroit Grand Prix, a few of us were chatting with him on the side. One guy asked if he had ever run the Z06 for a lap time at the Nurburgring. He said he had run a 7:38 with a flying start. He said not much was made of it because Jan's 7:42.99 was a standing start. If you take the time difference between a standing start and a flying start, the 2 laps were pretty close. He said when he did the 7:38 there were areas where the sun was so low, he had to completely lift, when normally he was full throttle or close to it. He felt the car was capable of a 7:36. He wanted to give it another go, but they ran out of time in Germany.
I guess the only thing about that is he may be closer to Jan on the Nurburgring than most people think.
I guess the only thing about that is he may be closer to Jan on the Nurburgring than most people think.
05-08-2009, 12:47 PM
#12
One other thing. After his speech at the Detroit Grand Prix, a few of us were chatting with him on the side. One guy asked if he had ever run the Z06 for a lap time at the Nurburgring. He said he had run a 7:38 with a flying start. He said not much was made of it because Jan's 7:42.99 was a standing start. If you take the time difference between a standing start and a flying start, the 2 laps were pretty close. He said when he did the 7:38 there were areas where the sun was so low, he had to completely lift, when normally he was full throttle or close to it. He felt the car was capable of a 7:36. He wanted to give it another go, but they ran out of time in Germany.
I guess the only thing about that is he may be closer to Jan on the Nurburgring than most people think.
I guess the only thing about that is he may be closer to Jan on the Nurburgring than most people think.
05-08-2009, 10:35 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
One other thing. After his speech at the Detroit Grand Prix, a few of us were chatting with him on the side. One guy asked if he had ever run the Z06 for a lap time at the Nurburgring. He said he had run a 7:38 with a flying start. He said not much was made of it because Jan's 7:42.99 was a standing start. If you take the time difference between a standing start and a flying start, the 2 laps were pretty close. He said when he did the 7:38 there were areas where the sun was so low, he had to completely lift, when normally he was full throttle or close to it. He felt the car was capable of a 7:36. He wanted to give it another go, but they ran out of time in Germany.
I guess the only thing about that is he may be closer to Jan on the Nurburgring than most people think.
I guess the only thing about that is he may be closer to Jan on the Nurburgring than most people think.
At the time, GM had no frame of reference when running the Z06's official Ring lap. Nissan's great contribution to the process was to film their lap complete with visible telemetry. Since nobody prior had really done this for a competing marque and there was no official sanctioning body GM decided to run what they saw as an honest lap from a standstill and covering the entire track so they could not be accused of somehow trying to take any shortcuts to improve their time. When Nissan ran the Ring from a roll and did a partial track and the time was accepted GM was momentarily taken aback.
But what Nissan had done and in fact made clear is that they were following the procedure of Sport Auto whose official driver was invited to both observe and drive the car alongside Nissan's driver at times. Nissan knew that Sport Auto's test would be highly regarded so they wanted to test exactly in accordance with their procedure. They didn't stop there. As Road & Track later wrote, Nissan called them and asked for detailed instructions on how R&T conducted all of their tests so that they could tune the GT-R specifically for them.
Suitably chastened, GM quickly got with the program and fitted the ZR1 with cameras and posted telemetry. But if you adjust the Z06's time back for a rolling start partial track run as is now the accepted standard the car would have run the Ring in a 7:32:9. It is generally accepted by those who know that over a 12.9 mile track like the Ring Magnussen is likely to be about five seconds faster than even someone as accomplised as Mero. So a 7:38 for Mero makes a fair amount of sense to me from what the engineering team has told me.
So best case Magnussen runs the ZR1 in a 7:21 (five seconds faster than Mero) or thereabouts if such a run ever takes place. The truly scary thing is that when I talk to the team they point out that all their cars are on 220 treadwear tires for what they see as the best value balance between grip and longevity. But the competition like Nissan with the GT-R (140 treadwear) and, worse, Dodge with the ACR is running 80 treadwear semi-slick tires. In their view, a Corvette on 80 treadwear tires will take about a second a mile out of any track. Do the math on the Ring from a projected rolling start, partial track run for the Z06/ZR1 and the projected lap times are sobering.
05-09-2009, 01:04 AM
#15
This makes a fair amount of sense to me. In speaking with folks on the Corvette team who are very familiar with Magnussen's Ring run two things are made clear. First, that, as they later revealed, his run was from a standing start, which added about four seconds to his time. Second, and even more importantly, that Magnussen ran the entire track. That is, his time involved the pit lane stretch as well which added an additional six seconds to his time.
At the time, GM had no frame of reference when running the Z06's official Ring lap. Nissan's great contribution to the process was to film their lap complete with visible telemetry. Since nobody prior had really done this for a competing marque and there was no official sanctioning body GM decided to run what they saw as an honest lap from a standstill and covering the entire track so they could not be accused of somehow trying to take any shortcuts to improve their time. When Nissan ran the Ring from a roll and did a partial track and the time was accepted GM was momentarily taken aback.
But what Nissan had done and in fact made clear is that they were following the procedure of Sport Auto whose official driver was invited to both observe and drive the car alongside Nissan's driver at times. Nissan knew that Sport Auto's test would be highly regarded so they wanted to test exactly in accordance with their procedure. They didn't stop there. As Road & Track later wrote, Nissan called them and asked for detailed instructions on how R&T conducted all of their tests so that they could tune the GT-R specifically for them.
Suitably chastened, GM quickly got with the program and fitted the ZR1 with cameras and posted telemetry. But if you adjust the Z06's time back for a rolling start partial track run as is now the accepted standard the car would have run the Ring in a 7:32:9. It is generally accepted by those who know that over a 12.9 mile track like the Ring Magnussen is likely to be about five seconds faster than even someone as accomplised as Mero. So a 7:38 for Mero makes a fair amount of sense to me from what the engineering team has told me.
So best case Magnussen runs the ZR1 in a 7:21 (five seconds faster than Mero) or thereabouts if such a run ever takes place. The truly scary thing is that when I talk to the team they point out that all their cars are on 220 treadwear tires for what they see as the best value balance between grip and longevity. But the competition like Nissan with the GT-R (140 treadwear) and, worse, Dodge with the ACR is running 80 treadwear semi-slick tires. In their view, a Corvette on 80 treadwear tires will take about a second a mile out of any track. Do the math on the Ring from a projected rolling start, partial track run for the Z06/ZR1 and the projected lap times are sobering.
At the time, GM had no frame of reference when running the Z06's official Ring lap. Nissan's great contribution to the process was to film their lap complete with visible telemetry. Since nobody prior had really done this for a competing marque and there was no official sanctioning body GM decided to run what they saw as an honest lap from a standstill and covering the entire track so they could not be accused of somehow trying to take any shortcuts to improve their time. When Nissan ran the Ring from a roll and did a partial track and the time was accepted GM was momentarily taken aback.
But what Nissan had done and in fact made clear is that they were following the procedure of Sport Auto whose official driver was invited to both observe and drive the car alongside Nissan's driver at times. Nissan knew that Sport Auto's test would be highly regarded so they wanted to test exactly in accordance with their procedure. They didn't stop there. As Road & Track later wrote, Nissan called them and asked for detailed instructions on how R&T conducted all of their tests so that they could tune the GT-R specifically for them.
Suitably chastened, GM quickly got with the program and fitted the ZR1 with cameras and posted telemetry. But if you adjust the Z06's time back for a rolling start partial track run as is now the accepted standard the car would have run the Ring in a 7:32:9. It is generally accepted by those who know that over a 12.9 mile track like the Ring Magnussen is likely to be about five seconds faster than even someone as accomplised as Mero. So a 7:38 for Mero makes a fair amount of sense to me from what the engineering team has told me.
So best case Magnussen runs the ZR1 in a 7:21 (five seconds faster than Mero) or thereabouts if such a run ever takes place. The truly scary thing is that when I talk to the team they point out that all their cars are on 220 treadwear tires for what they see as the best value balance between grip and longevity. But the competition like Nissan with the GT-R (140 treadwear) and, worse, Dodge with the ACR is running 80 treadwear semi-slick tires. In their view, a Corvette on 80 treadwear tires will take about a second a mile out of any track. Do the math on the Ring from a projected rolling start, partial track run for the Z06/ZR1 and the projected lap times are sobering.
Great info. It's a shame GM doesn't have the $$$ anymore to take the Z06 back to the ring and run a "proper" lap. I've always wondered just how much time GM spent at the ring with the Z06 and ZR1 to get their times. We all know Nissan practically lives there and runs hundreds if not thousands of laps trying to get that last second
05-09-2009, 06:41 AM
#16
Great info. It's a shame GM doesn't have the $$$ anymore to take the Z06 back to the ring and run a "proper" lap. I've always wondered just how much time GM spent at the ring with the Z06 and ZR1 to get their times. We all know Nissan practically lives there and runs hundreds if not thousands of laps trying to get that last second
Here's couple of shots:
This shot was taken on the first time we approached the GM test center with out cameras...
Next time we agreed to leave the cameras out and the guy gave us a grant tour...
05-09-2009, 07:58 AM
#17
This makes a fair amount of sense to me. In speaking with folks on the Corvette team who are very familiar with Magnussen's Ring run two things are made clear. First, that, as they later revealed, his run was from a standing start, which added about four seconds to his time. Second, and even more importantly, that Magnussen ran the entire track. That is, his time involved the pit lane stretch as well which added an additional six seconds to his time.
At the time, GM had no frame of reference when running the Z06's official Ring lap. Nissan's great contribution to the process was to film their lap complete with visible telemetry. Since nobody prior had really done this for a competing marque and there was no official sanctioning body GM decided to run what they saw as an honest lap from a standstill and covering the entire track so they could not be accused of somehow trying to take any shortcuts to improve their time. When Nissan ran the Ring from a roll and did a partial track and the time was accepted GM was momentarily taken aback.
But what Nissan had done and in fact made clear is that they were following the procedure of Sport Auto whose official driver was invited to both observe and drive the car alongside Nissan's driver at times. Nissan knew that Sport Auto's test would be highly regarded so they wanted to test exactly in accordance with their procedure. They didn't stop there. As Road & Track later wrote, Nissan called them and asked for detailed instructions on how R&T conducted all of their tests so that they could tune the GT-R specifically for them.
Suitably chastened, GM quickly got with the program and fitted the ZR1 with cameras and posted telemetry. But if you adjust the Z06's time back for a rolling start partial track run as is now the accepted standard the car would have run the Ring in a 7:32:9. It is generally accepted by those who know that over a 12.9 mile track like the Ring Magnussen is likely to be about five seconds faster than even someone as accomplised as Mero. So a 7:38 for Mero makes a fair amount of sense to me from what the engineering team has told me.
So best case Magnussen runs the ZR1 in a 7:21 (five seconds faster than Mero) or thereabouts if such a run ever takes place. The truly scary thing is that when I talk to the team they point out that all their cars are on 220 treadwear tires for what they see as the best value balance between grip and longevity. But the competition like Nissan with the GT-R (140 treadwear) and, worse, Dodge with the ACR is running 80 treadwear semi-slick tires. In their view, a Corvette on 80 treadwear tires will take about a second a mile out of any track. Do the math on the Ring from a projected rolling start, partial track run for the Z06/ZR1 and the projected lap times are sobering.
At the time, GM had no frame of reference when running the Z06's official Ring lap. Nissan's great contribution to the process was to film their lap complete with visible telemetry. Since nobody prior had really done this for a competing marque and there was no official sanctioning body GM decided to run what they saw as an honest lap from a standstill and covering the entire track so they could not be accused of somehow trying to take any shortcuts to improve their time. When Nissan ran the Ring from a roll and did a partial track and the time was accepted GM was momentarily taken aback.
But what Nissan had done and in fact made clear is that they were following the procedure of Sport Auto whose official driver was invited to both observe and drive the car alongside Nissan's driver at times. Nissan knew that Sport Auto's test would be highly regarded so they wanted to test exactly in accordance with their procedure. They didn't stop there. As Road & Track later wrote, Nissan called them and asked for detailed instructions on how R&T conducted all of their tests so that they could tune the GT-R specifically for them.
Suitably chastened, GM quickly got with the program and fitted the ZR1 with cameras and posted telemetry. But if you adjust the Z06's time back for a rolling start partial track run as is now the accepted standard the car would have run the Ring in a 7:32:9. It is generally accepted by those who know that over a 12.9 mile track like the Ring Magnussen is likely to be about five seconds faster than even someone as accomplised as Mero. So a 7:38 for Mero makes a fair amount of sense to me from what the engineering team has told me.
So best case Magnussen runs the ZR1 in a 7:21 (five seconds faster than Mero) or thereabouts if such a run ever takes place. The truly scary thing is that when I talk to the team they point out that all their cars are on 220 treadwear tires for what they see as the best value balance between grip and longevity. But the competition like Nissan with the GT-R (140 treadwear) and, worse, Dodge with the ACR is running 80 treadwear semi-slick tires. In their view, a Corvette on 80 treadwear tires will take about a second a mile out of any track. Do the math on the Ring from a projected rolling start, partial track run for the Z06/ZR1 and the projected lap times are sobering.
The only thing wrong with this analogy is Mero said that Jan used exactly the same start and finish lines that he and Heinricy in the CTS-V used. The only difference from Mero's and Jan's lap was Mero did a flying start, and Jan did a standing start. Jan did not run an entire lap i.e. he used the same finish line, just past the last right hand turn that Mero and Heinricy in the CTS-V used.
05-11-2009, 07:01 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
The only thing wrong with this analogy is Mero said that Jan used exactly the same start and finish lines that he and Heinricy in the CTS-V used. The only difference from Mero's and Jan's lap was Mero did a flying start, and Jan did a standing start. Jan did not run an entire lap i.e. he used the same finish line, just past the last right hand turn that Mero and Heinricy in the CTS-V used.
No reason to doubt what you say as, like me at the time you too somehow already knew for a fact (post 61) that the Z06's lap was from a standing start back when there was heated debate about it: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...urgring-4.html
See posts 43 and 95 on that thread as well.
I made that post (95) after that detail was specifically confirmed to me. It is not impossible that the source could have misunderstood what I meant when I asked about it being a full lap but I sincerely doubt it as the question was asked specifically in context to the GT-R doing a partial lap, i.e. not running the pit lane stretch for time. The response was very specific about that detail.
Oh well. Guess it doesn't matter very much now in the larger scheme of things.
05-11-2009, 08:45 PM
#19
Just another thought for you guys in the know to think about: I notice a substantial difference in my '06 Z's handling as I burn fuel - much better manners (less oversteer), and better on rough terrain, when the tank is full. Below half a tank and the twitchiness gets real noticeable.
The car gets about 4 mpg at WOT at the track. So if Mero's Z did four 12 mile WOT laps, and 4 cool down laps, wouldn't the last couple of timed laps have been a little more challenging??
BTW, absolutely LOVE the DSOM ZR1 test mule - but then again I'm partial to the color.
The car gets about 4 mpg at WOT at the track. So if Mero's Z did four 12 mile WOT laps, and 4 cool down laps, wouldn't the last couple of timed laps have been a little more challenging??
BTW, absolutely LOVE the DSOM ZR1 test mule - but then again I'm partial to the color.
05-12-2009, 07:40 PM
#20
Hmmm...interesting. I have it on fairly good authority from a well-placed source on the engineering team that the Z06's lap time was a standing start full lap. As I have outlined on the forum before, the procedure was explained to me as follows: There were four timed standing start laps. Each of these laps was immediately followed by a cool-down to pit dead stop lap. The vehicle was then staged again. So each lap involved two laps. One timed and one cool down. That's why only four sub 8-minute laps (~32 mins) were completed in one hour. With the car being driven by a veteran Lemans endurance driver an hour long stint is not that difficult. He could have run eight laps (64 mins) before running out of time. But only four timed ones were done because of the procedure GM was running. The impression I got is that it was virtually impossible for Jan to stop and pull into the pits on the timed laps because the car was timed all the way to the start beacon at the end of the pit lane leading into the first left-hander at full chat as opposed to the now accepted beacon at the beginning. Hence the lengthy cool down lap whereas drivers today can easily power down at the pit lane start and pull in as Heinricy did with the CTS-V.
No reason to doubt what you say as, like me at the time you too somehow already knew for a fact (post 61) that the Z06's lap was from a standing start back when there was heated debate about it: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...urgring-4.html
See posts 43 and 95 on that thread as well.
I made that post (95) after that detail was specifically confirmed to me. It is not impossible that the source could have misunderstood what I meant when I asked about it being a full lap but I sincerely doubt it as the question was asked specifically in context to the GT-R doing a partial lap, i.e. not running the pit lane stretch for time. The response was very specific about that detail.
Oh well. Guess it doesn't matter very much now in the larger scheme of things.
No reason to doubt what you say as, like me at the time you too somehow already knew for a fact (post 61) that the Z06's lap was from a standing start back when there was heated debate about it: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...urgring-4.html
See posts 43 and 95 on that thread as well.
I made that post (95) after that detail was specifically confirmed to me. It is not impossible that the source could have misunderstood what I meant when I asked about it being a full lap but I sincerely doubt it as the question was asked specifically in context to the GT-R doing a partial lap, i.e. not running the pit lane stretch for time. The response was very specific about that detail.
Oh well. Guess it doesn't matter very much now in the larger scheme of things.
As I said before, I think Mero is one hell of a lot better than some folks are giving him credit for. His lap, the 7:38, was essentially the same, or arguably faster than Jan's
Last edited by vette friend; 05-12-2009 at 07:42 PM.
