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Old 01-14-2012, 07:11 PM   #1
HAY_Grellner
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Default 2012 ZR1 vs. 2013 GT500

So my friend and I were having a debate on the legitamacy of the 2012 ZR1. His argument is that the ZR1 is way overprice and overrated. He said he could buy a 2013 GT500 w/ the performance package and track package for $65,000 and with the remaining $45,000 he saved by buying the cheaper of the two cars, he would modify it and it would beat the ZR1 around the infamous Nurburgring racetrack. I went on to say that there is no way, the GT500 is too heavy, not aerodynamic enough, and not refined enough to post a time better than 7:19.63. Any other opinions on this debate?
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:16 PM   #2
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The Mustang platform is significantly INFERIOR to the Vette platform from a weight, handling, and chassis dynamics standpoint. The LS9 is a superior engine to the '13 GT500 engine as well. It takes 15psi of boost for that '13 GT500 to make 650hp. The LS9 is running 10.5 psi to make 638hp.

For the roughly $45k differential, the GT500 would either have to gain massive amounts of reliable horsepower (with increased braking, cooling, and handling mods) or lose 600+lbs to even being in the same league as the ZR1. You'd have to gut the GT500 to even stand a chance of losing that much weight and then probably replace a bunch of body panels/glass, etc.

I think the '13 GT500 is a sweet ride, but it's just not in the same league as the ZR1. Anyone that thinks otherwise is being delusional.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:16 PM   #3
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Computer racing is so much cheaper than going to the track.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:19 PM   #4
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First post...

Who are you and do you own a Mustang?

Hmmm...
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 911/Q45 View Post
Computer racing is so much cheaper than going to the track.
Yeah, but that's pretty irrelevant when you're too young to drive. . . .
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAY_Grellner View Post
So my friend and I were having a debate on the legitamacy of the 2012 ZR1. His argument is that the ZR1 is way overprice and overrated. He said he could buy a 2013 GT500 w/ the performance package and track package for $65,000 and with the remaining $45,000 he saved by buying the cheaper of the two cars, he would modify it and it would beat the ZR1 around the infamous Nurburgring racetrack. I went on to say that there is no way, the GT500 is too heavy, not aerodynamic enough, and not refined enough to post a time better than 7:19.63. Any other opinions on this debate?
Your buddy (if there really is a buddy) is a MORON.
Besides this being a fairy tale, who puts $45,000 of Mods into a Mustang?
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:57 PM   #7
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Your buddy (if there really is a buddy) is a MORON.
Besides this being a fairy tale, who puts $45,000 of Mods into a Mustang?
Well, drag racers might. Depends on what one wants to do.

But I would think the fundamental design of the Mustang would not allow it to match a stock ZR1 at Nurburgring, even with $45K in mods.

The unibody construction, solid rear axle, and strut front suspension simply cannot be modified to keep the car on the pavement through dips, bumps, potholes, s-curves, whoopdeedoos, etc. that are not a factor in drag racing. ... not as well as a complete Dana aluminum frame with double wishbones at every corner.

My 89 5.0 was supercharged, intercooled, TFS Street Heat heads, 42 lb injectors, aluminum driveshaft and flywheel, Baer Racing Corvette brakes, you name it....Suspension was Global West subframes and solid bushings, Koni yellows, 17" x 9.5" OZ wheels, Bridgestone RE71s, Griggs Racing torquearm, Maximum Motorsports aluminum panhard rod, and more. However, I can tell you my stock 2001 Z06 handled WAY BETTER and would leave the Mustang in the dust on any type of curvy road course.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berto View Post
Well, drag racers might. Depends on what one wants to do.

But I would think the fundamental design of the Mustang would not allow it to match a stock ZR1 at Nurburgring, even with $45K in mods.

The unibody construction, solid rear axle, and strut front suspension simply cannot be modified to keep the car on the pavement through dips, bumps, potholes, s-curves, whoopdeedoos, etc. that are not a factor in drag racing. ... not as well as a complete Dana aluminum frame with double wishbones at every corner.

My 89 5.0 was supercharged, intercooled, TFS Street Heat heads, 42 lb injectors, aluminum driveshaft and flywheel, Baer Racing Corvette brakes, you name it....Suspension was Global West subframes and solid bushings, Koni yellows, 17" x 9.5" OZ wheels, Bridgestone RE71s, Griggs Racing torquearm, Maximum Motorsports aluminum panhard rod, and more. However, I can tell you my stock 2001 Z06 handled WAY BETTER and would leave the Mustang in the dust on any type of curvy road course.
Psst, I think this whole thread is a....... thread.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:29 PM   #9
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Waste of a thread, put both side by side, no comparison what so ever. Go ahead, mod away, will never be a vette, let alone a ZR1. Maybe for $45000, someone will build a ZR1 body for you and put it on???
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:37 PM   #10
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What a stupid thread shouldnt even get posted.Go play somewhere else you moron!
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAY_Grellner View Post
So my friend and I were having a debate on the legitamacy of the 2012 ZR1. His argument is that the ZR1 is way overprice and overrated. He said he could buy a 2013 GT500 w/ the performance package and track package for $65,000 and with the remaining $45,000 he saved by buying the cheaper of the two cars, he would modify it and it would beat the ZR1 around the infamous Nurburgring racetrack. I went on to say that there is no way, the GT500 is too heavy, not aerodynamic enough, and not refined enough to post a time better than 7:19.63. Any other opinions on this debate?
Tell him to put up or shut up! And who cares, it's still a Mustang. Coulda, shoulda don't mean crap "just do it".

I'd rather be slow in a 'vette than fast in a 'stang!

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Old 01-14-2012, 09:51 PM   #12
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I am a Mustang and ZR1 owner..... guess we have a good Mustang forum.... our guys say selling a ZR1 for a 2013 GT500 is a serious downgrade.


400-500 lbs more... the Mustang won't keep up in many ways.

ZR1 all the way!

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Old 01-15-2012, 12:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
Your buddy (if there really is a buddy) is a MORON.
Besides this being a fairy tale, who puts $45,000 of Mods into a Mustang?
I put over 45k into a Mustang.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:05 AM   #14
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I put over 45k into a Mustang.
..............and your going to admit it?
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:41 AM   #15
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I put over 45k into a Mustang.
Obviously more money than brains. No offense, I'm just playing
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QUIKAG View Post
The Mustang platform is significantly INFERIOR to the Vette platform from a weight, handling, and chassis dynamics standpoint. The LS9 is a superior engine to the '13 GT500 engine as well. It takes 15psi of boost for that '13 GT500 to make 650hp. The LS9 is running 10.5 psi to make 638hp.

For the roughly $45k differential, the GT500 would either have to gain massive amounts of reliable horsepower (with increased braking, cooling, and handling mods) or lose 600+lbs to even being in the same league as the ZR1. You'd have to gut the GT500 to even stand a chance of losing that much weight and then probably replace a bunch of body panels/glass, etc.

I think the '13 GT500 is a sweet ride, but it's just not in the same league as the ZR1. Anyone that thinks otherwise is being delusional.


I LOVE the 2013 Shelby 500 and despite its small HP advantage, it is not in the same league as a ZR1, ESPECIALLY around the "Ring" or any road race track for that matter.

However, for $45,000 A LOT could be done to the 2013 Shelby 500 from massive horsepower, suspension and brake upgrades, significant weight reducition and tires, which could make it a real contender at the Ring. That being said the cars warranty would be immediately voided and it would just be stupid to do, when you can just buy a ZR1.
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:19 AM   #17
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FORTY-FIVE-THOUSAND dollars, for what? The parts (or parts and labor) to cobble together a highly modified car, in other words a "Frankencar"? A vehicle largely comprised of aftermarket parts, none of which are specifically engineered to work with one another put together by who, exactly? Does that budget include the engineering and testing necessary to get everything working in harmony, not to mention actually besting the ZR1 lap time on the Nurburgring? Something no GT500 has ever come close to doing.

Why do you think that is? The answer is, because it's simply not possible. Not for $45,000 or even $450,000. That is not to say no vehicle can best that laptime. But none are now or ever will be a 'true' GT500.

Ask yourself, when is a production street legal vehicle (it doesn't matter which one) no longer the vehicle it was originally designed and intended to be. At what point does it become 'something else'? Be it a "Frankencar" or a race car. Do Funny cars bear a resemblance to their production counterparts? Do NASCAR Cup cars? Sure, they both do. But are they cars one drives on the street? Of course not.

And the same can be said of any race car. Although they may resemble their production counterparts and in some cases share some or even many of the same parts, they are in fact not the same vehicles at all.

The same would go for a hypothetical 'GT500' which is capable of besting a production ZR1 on the 'ring'. But it wouldn't happen for $45K.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:28 AM   #18
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considering the Boss 302 is faster than the GT500
and the ZR1 totally spanks a Boss 302

your buddy is a moron
and so are you for posting the question

See Car & Driver Feb issue for Lightning Lap results
and yes, a Boss 302 is the fastest Mustang ever
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:30 AM   #19
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Back in 01 and at the same time I picked up a Z06, there was a limited production mustang with an independent rear suspension.

I think it was called an "R" something and was very expensive (at least 15 grand MORE than my Z06 was) but was not any faster.

All this goes to show if Ford is going to try to make one particular model mustang compete against one particular model of a vette, the mustang is going to cost way more than the vette will....... and who in their right mind would ever pay more for a mustang than they would a vette.

That is why the "R" independent suspension equipped mustang FAILED
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
..............and your going to admit it?
I'll admit it, i will also admit that it is fun driving a muscle car with over 1000rwhp. We ran over 200mph at the Texas mile with the SS KB 3.6 and no other power adders. Now i am going to throw a Th400 in it and go after some 8's with it. It is all for fun, and i have alot of fun with this car.

But the gt500 is olny good at going straight, anything else it is going to suck really bad.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:33 AM
 
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