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Old 03-03-2012, 12:03 PM   #1
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Default Road & Track - ZR1 vs. C6.R



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Old 03-03-2012, 08:34 PM   #2
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Just picked up the new R&T and read the corvette piece. Interesting in that the track work was done at Spring Mountain where many of us have been. IMO the piece was well written from a real world layman's perspective. They had high praise for the entire line but they all seemed to be partial to the Z06 carbon edition Z07 optioned car. Their Z06 test car even turned faster times than the ZR1 with the same pro at the wheel in both cases. Having spent the three days at SM, myself, I would bet that the ZR1 would slightly out perform the Z06 on a course with a bit longer straights. I have always said that I would be very happy with a Z06 but I am ever so glad that I opted for the ZR1. In any case, they must be abuzz over on the Z06 forum pages.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:35 PM   #3
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According to the article, the ZR1 had the PDE option, it was 95lb heavier than the Z06 and it was slower than the Z06 with Z07.

Why? 133hp isn't enough to overcome the 95lb deficit? Spring Mountain isn't that tight of a course.

Not looking for a "fight" here, just curious, really.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:06 PM   #4
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Just picked up the new R&T and read the corvette piece. Interesting in that the track work was done at Spring Mountain where many of us have been. IMO the piece was well written from a real world layman's perspective. They had high praise for the entire line but they all seemed to be partial to the Z06 carbon edition Z07 optioned car. Their Z06 test car even turned faster times than the ZR1 with the same pro at the wheel in both cases. Having spent the three days at SM, myself, I would bet that the ZR1 would slightly out perform the Z06 on a course with a bit longer straights. I have always said that I would be very happy with a Z06 but I am ever so glad that I opted for the ZR1. In any case, they must be abuzz over on the Z06 forum pages.
Ain't no way the Z06 was faster. Give the keys to Ron Fellows , he runs 135 mph on the back straight in the ZR1.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:17 PM   #5
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Ain't no way the Z06 was faster. Give the keys to Ron Fellows , he runs 135 mph on the back straight in the ZR1.
Ron fellows...the retired guy? They had the current Le Mans c6R race driver lap both on the same day....z06 was faster get over it
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:27 PM   #6
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Ron fellows...the retired guy? They had the current Le Mans c6R race driver lap both on the same day....z06 was faster get over it
Ron Fellows... The guy who's got a whole lot more laps because he has a school there. Also the guy who can make a better lap time without ptm vs the so called current le mans driver. The guy with all the championships . Yeah, that guy is faster in the Zr1. The Zr1 is faster on that track. You get over it. I didn't pay 20,000 more to be slower on any track. With that said I still love them and both are phenomenal.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:05 AM   #7
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Ron Fellows... The guy who's got a whole lot more laps because he has a school there. Also the guy who can make a better lap time without ptm vs the so called current le mans driver. The guy with all the championships . Yeah, that guy is faster in the Zr1. The Zr1 is faster on that track. You get over it. I didn't pay 20,000 more to be slower on any track. With that said I still love them and both are phenomenal.
The "so called current Le Mans driver" as you put it is Tommy Milner, the "so called" last winner of Le Mans in a Corvette. So contrary to what you might believe (or seem to be insinuating) he can wheel a car. I was just at Spring Mountain 2 weeks ago and believe it or not if you take the time to speak to the instructors most of them indicate that they also prefer the Z06's over the ZR1 on the track. The reason being is that it is lighter, slightly more nimble and easier to drive (because it is not overpowered). The results are the results and as they say when the clock comes out the BS walks. So setting your ego aside (and your $20k) it is slower around that track. If you want to run a wide open road race then the added HP of the ZR1 will probably put it in the front, on that track on that day it did not.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:40 AM   #8
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The "so called current Le Mans driver" as you put it is Tommy Milner, the "so called" last winner of Le Mans in a Corvette. So contrary to what you might believe (or seem to be insinuating) he can wheel a car. I was just at Spring Mountain 2 weeks ago and believe it or not if you take the time to speak to the instructors most of them indicate that they also prefer the Z06's over the ZR1 on the track. The reason being is that it is lighter, slightly more nimble and easier to drive (because it is not overpowered). The results are the results and as they say when the clock comes out the BS walks. So setting your ego aside (and your $20k) it is slower around that track. If you want to run a wide open road race then the added HP of the ZR1 will probably put it in the front, on that track on that day it did not.
As far as Tommy Milner I did not insinuate anything about his driving, I merely pointed out that Ron Fellows has a school there and has accumulated a lot more laps at that track which probably makes him a better driver at that track with stock corvettes just as Jim Mero is the best driver for the Nurburgring over the C6R drivers because of the extensive testing and lapping he has done there.I must be living in the twilight zone. Is not the ZR1 the king of corvettes ( the pinnacle ). Isn't the one who went 7:19 at nurburg, just broke the very complex VIR grand course record at 2.45, and hold the record at springmountain 2.2 mile course of 1.40. Wow, their must be something wrong with me. I just came back from Springmountain too ( FEB 13,14th) and I talked pretty extensively too the instructors and I didn't get the impression that the Z06 was the top car and the one they loved the most on the track.I would assume you are a Z06 owner. I guess we hear what we want to. Hey, maybe I got it wrong, the Z06 is the king of the track.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:47 AM   #9
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Food fight!
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:15 AM   #10
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As far as Tommy Milner I did not insinuate anything about his driving, I merely pointed out that Ron Fellows has a school there and has accumulated a lot more laps at that track which probably makes him a better driver at that track with stock corvettes just as Jim Mero is the best driver for the Nurburgring over the C6R drivers because of the extensive testing and lapping he has done there.I must be living in the twilight zone. Is not the ZR1 the king of corvettes ( the pinnacle ). Isn't the one who went 7:19 at nurburg, just broke the very complex VIR grand course record at 2.45, and hold the record at springmountain 2.2 mile course of 1.40. Wow, their must be something wrong with me. I just came back from Springmountain too ( FEB 13,14th) and I talked pretty extensively too the instructors and I didn't get the impression that the Z06 was the top car and the one they loved the most on the track.I would assume you are a Z06 owner. I guess we hear what we want to. Hey, maybe I got it wrong, the Z06 is the king of the track.
Guess I missed you as I was there a week later. Frankly I could care less which version of the car is faster or not, they are all vette's and frankly they are all good at what they do. The Grand Sport is the ultimate daily driver and grocery getter, the Z06 is a more hardcore track oriented version and imho the ZR1 is the ultimate street car/Grand Touring car that is also amazingly fast on the track.

What I am however tired of is the overly inflated ego's that a lot of ZR1 owners seem to possess simply because they spent a bit of extra money on a ZR1 they seem to have to thump their chests and say they have "the big dog" every time they can. The fact that one version of the Vette might be a few tenths of a second faster around a track than another takes nothing away from one or the other version. It is simply the results of whatever test was run that day by someone that can drive a car whole lot better and faster than 99.9% of us ever will be able to (as you were also at Spring Mountain you can probably also attest to this as you probably got to see it first hand as I did).

As far as what car I have yes I do indeed have a Z06. In my case it's one of the Carbon Editions, so basically I have a ZR1 with a NA 427 engine. I bought this specifically to make a dual use street/HPDE car out of it and have quite a bit of money tied up in it. So money or not being able to afford "the big dog" is not a factor in my comments about the Z06 v/ ZR1 results of this test as in my case if I felt the ZR1 (LS9 engine platform) was better for what I was trying to do I would have just bought a stock ZR1 and saved about 30k lol.

Interestingly enough though did they let you into the garages under the C condo's directly across from the school (where you get in to the cars when you are going out on the track)? If so you might have seen a few of Ron's personal cars in there. A SSB 2011 Carbon Edition Z06 and the 1 of 1 2011 Ron Fellows edition Z06 (which is basically another carbon edition with unique paint and sticker set). Bottom line though is we all love this brand of car and there really should not be any battle between owners of the different versions about what is best because they are all good just slightly different! Imho for street driving any version of the Vette is more than anyone could ever need anyway!
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:41 AM   #11
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Guess I missed you as I was there a week later. Frankly I could care less which version of the car is faster or not, they are all vette's and frankly they are all good at what they do. The Grand Sport is the ultimate daily driver and grocery getter, the Z06 is a more hardcore track oriented version and imho the ZR1 is the ultimate street car/Grand Touring car that is also amazingly fast on the track.

What I am however tired of is the overly inflated ego's that a lot of ZR1 owners seem to possess simply because they spent a bit of extra money on a ZR1 they seem to have to thump their chests and say they have "the big dog" every time they can. The fact that one version of the Vette might be a few tenths of a second faster around a track than another takes nothing away from one or the other version. It is simply the results of whatever test was run that day by someone that can drive a car whole lot better and faster than 99.9% of us ever will be able to (as you were also at Spring Mountain you can probably also attest to this as you probably got to see it first hand as I did).

As far as what car I have yes I do indeed have a Z06. In my case it's one of the Carbon Editions, so basically I have a ZR1 with a NA 427 engine. I bought this specifically to make a dual use street/HPDE car out of it and have quite a bit of money tied up in it. So money or not being able to afford "the big dog" is not a factor in my comments about the Z06 v/ ZR1 results of this test as in my case if I felt the ZR1 (LS9 engine platform) was better for what I was trying to do I would have just bought a stock ZR1 and saved about 30k lol.

Interestingly enough though did they let you into the garages under the C condo's directly across from the school (where you get in to the cars when you are going out on the track)? If so you might have seen a few of Ron's personal cars in there. A SSB 2011 Carbon Edition Z06 and the 1 of 1 2011 Ron Fellows edition Z06 (which is basically another carbon edition with unique paint and sticker set). Bottom line though is we all love this brand of car and there really should not be any battle between owners of the different versions about what is best because they are all good just slightly different! Imho for street driving any version of the Vette is more than anyone could ever need anyway!

We ate under condo c on the Tuesday that I was their and I did see a Z06 in there but didn't know it was Rons. By the way I also owned both Z06 and now 10'ZR1 so I love both cars and know personaly their strengths and weaknesses. With that said I do know that the Z07 comes a whole lot closer as far as track performance to the ZR1. Sorry to come off being a smartbutt but niterider got under my skin a little. Again, both cars are phenomenal machines and you can't go wrong with either.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:39 AM   #12
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Food fight!
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:07 AM   #13
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It's true that a Z06 can be faster on the Spring Mountain track, depending on track configuration. The reason for this is they're slightly lighter, more "tossable" and have slightly better throttle response. I use the word "slightly" because the segment times and other stats indicate this. And it's not based on a single driver. Far from it. A lvl 2 or 3 student may lap faster in a ZR1 but segment times are often faster in the Z06. Thus, given a driver who can 'put it all together', the Z06 can be faster.

The ZR1 is faster on the back straight and will win a 'drag race' there. And those who have been there have all witnessed that I'm sure. However, if a Z06 gets there first a ZR1 may not catch it. Road racing is a series of drag races connected by turns of various types. And the faster laptime is usually the car which can maintain the highest average speed overall, not just on the straights.
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:37 AM   #14
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We ate under condo c on the Tuesday that I was their and I did see a Z06 in there but didn't know it was Rons. By the way I also owned both Z06 and now 10'ZR1 so I love both cars and know personaly their strengths and weaknesses. With that said I do know that the Z07 comes a whole lot closer as far as track performance to the ZR1. Sorry to come off being a smartbutt but niterider got under my skin a little. Again, both cars are phenomenal machines and you can't go wrong with either.
No worries A lot of these internet debates tend to go off in a whole different direction than they would if we were all sitting around having a debate in person as you can't really understand peoples emotions. I'm just like you, I love all of the Vettes and I truly think that we are lucky/fortunate to be able to buy cars like this so cheaply. Be it GS or ZR1, for the price they are all actually a bargains! The funny think though is that I always thought/wanted more power, more performance. After going to Spring Mountain I really came to the conclusion that on the street we are barely even scratching the surface of the performance that these cars can offer (having been there too I'm sure that you can agree with me on that!).

In regards to the cars under the C condo's if you noticed the mostly white with red Z06 that is the special 1 of 1 2011 Ron Fellows edition car that was made by GM for him. Next to that in the far corner was the blue SSB Carbon Edition.
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:50 AM   #15
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It's true that a Z06 can be faster on the Spring Mountain track, depending on track configuration. The reason for this is they're slightly lighter, more "tossable" and have slightly better throttle response. I use the word "slightly" because the segment times and other stats indicate this. And it's not based on a single driver. Far from it. A lvl 2 or 3 student may lap faster in a ZR1 but segment times are often faster in the Z06. Thus, given a driver who can 'put it all together', the Z06 can be faster.

The ZR1 is faster on the back straight and will win a 'drag race' there. And those who have been there have all witnessed that I'm sure. However, if a Z06 gets there first a ZR1 may not catch it. Road racing is a series of drag races connected by turns of various types. And the faster laptime is usually the car which can maintain the highest average speed overall, not just on the straights.


The key thing though that I think the majority of us that debate these type of test results need to realize though is that it's pretty much a mute point which car laps faster. I say this because 99.99% of us will never invest the time needed to develop the skill set to be able to extract what it takes from a car to be able to turn a lap at the speeds that these guys do!
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:50 AM   #16
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Let's see, Grand Sport, ZO6, ZR1. Yes, in my experience the middle children always have identity crises as they try to make their way in the world and stand out......
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:42 AM   #17
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They ran this on the shorter/tighter radical course which favors the Z a bit over the ZR. The ZR shines when it has room to stretch its legs on a bit more. The tighter/shorter the course the more the Z shines as it is a bit more tossable.

It was a good read, and a fairly balanced article. Hopefully some of the paddle shift development team vette is doing on the race car can trickle down to the production vettes.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:52 AM   #18
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They ran this on the shorter/tighter radical course which favors the Z a bit over the ZR. The ZR shines when it has room to stretch its legs on a bit more. The tighter/shorter the course the more the Z shines as it is a bit more tossable.

It was a good read, and a fairly balanced article. Hopefully some of the paddle shift development team vette is doing on the race car can trickle down to the production vettes.


This was run on the 1.5 mile Radical Loop not the 2.2 mile track that is used for the driving school. You can see that there isn't even really much of a straight on this track. The HP advantage of the ZR1 provides no help on this track and the ~100 lb weight penalty, now that the Z07 has the same brakes, tire, suspension, and PTM, is what is hurting the time. I would expect the Z07 to be the better autocross car (this track is more like an autocross) and the ZR1 to be the better true road course car. If they had run this on the 2.2 mile track good chance the ZR1 would have come out on top.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:44 PM   #19
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This was the best answer to my earlier why question.

So, my next question is how do you make the ZR1 PDE car outhandle a stock Z06 Z07 on tight courses without radical changes (roll cages, cutting half the car away, etc.) I have hard time seeing the ZR1 shed 100lb from the front. Would poly bushing do it? Hoosiers instead of Sport Cups do it?

Would using the Z06 springs benefit or hinder performance (with the MSRC)?

Since the Z07 could also use these "mods" no need for comparisons.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:34 PM   #20
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This was the best answer to my earlier why question.

So, my next question is how do you make the ZR1 PDE car outhandle a stock Z06 Z07 on tight courses without radical changes (roll cages, cutting half the car away, etc.) I have hard time seeing the ZR1 shed 100lb from the front. Would poly bushing do it? Hoosiers instead of Sport Cups do it?
A set of tires with more grip, something like the hoosiers, would most likely do it. If you are talking "track only" use then go ahead and get a set of true slicks as they would be good for ~3sec even on a small track like the radical loop. Another easy thing to do would be to lower the car, that alone may be enough to make up the difference. Even something as simple as a track based suspension alignment could do it.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:34 PM
 
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