[ZR1] New ZO6 2015
11-24-2013, 08:22 PM
#21
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,247
Received 5,444 Likes
on
2,270 Posts
11-25-2013, 05:10 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
Add in a dual-clutch and the super trick electronic rear diff and I think it's quite possible they will be able to get 700hp down to the ground in a fairly effective manner with a highly advanced and quick traction control system in the C7 ZR1.
It's going to be sick and I'm socking money away for the C7 ZR1.
11-25-2013, 08:00 PM
#23
An Old Fart's Humble Prediction
Agreed. I think it's effectively a fact (confirmed by GM indirectly) that they are testing both supercharged and turbocharged LT1 variants. What ends up where is TBD, but if they are going to hit efficiency/mpg requirements with a $100k Gen 3 CTS-V Caddy and maybe a $150k ZR1, they will probably have to go to twins.
Add in a dual-clutch and the super trick electronic rear diff and I think it's quite possible they will be able to get 700hp down to the ground in a fairly effective manner with a highly advanced and quick traction control system in the C7 ZR1.
It's going to be sick and I'm socking money away for the C7 ZR1.
Add in a dual-clutch and the super trick electronic rear diff and I think it's quite possible they will be able to get 700hp down to the ground in a fairly effective manner with a highly advanced and quick traction control system in the C7 ZR1.
It's going to be sick and I'm socking money away for the C7 ZR1.
I think we'll see a supercharged performance version as a 2015 model - with like 600+ hp. Why? Customers with that kind of money will spend it elsewhere if Corvette delays another year (look at the impatience on this forum alone). So the quickest way to a "super" version of the car is to use technology they're already familiar with (i.e., ZR1). The engineering is then mainly vehicle and engine management integration (though I'm sure they'll incorporate lessons learned about supercharging). I've seen the arguments for the LS7, but that's a bit like asking for round tail lights. Corvette is recruiting a whole new generation of customers. The C7 is more modern and "edgy." The LS7 isn't. And it's about at the warrantable limit of it's potential power output.
I also think, as QUIKAG points out, that they're working on twins (and probably also 8-speed and PDK technology). Why? Because a supercharged model is really just a bridge to a more modern (exciting / trackable / efficient / marketable) high-performance powerplant. They also need those technologies (and technology development experiences) to feed conceptual design of the C8. Since the C8 has to be a much larger jump than C6 - C7 was, Corvette knows it can't expect to move from what's essentially 2006-ish C6 supercharger technology to a car utilizing hybrid power / "exotic" materials / and extensive vehicle automation. Every bit of "intel" we've seen says there's a supercharged model about to be unveiled. But it makes no sense that Corvette would rehash that model several times and then jump across the Grand Canyon to the C8. So there has to be more to the C7 performance model story -- unless they're going to shorten the C7 life cycle and get to the C8 sooner.
Just my .02 -- no claim to intel.
BTW, QUICKAG, GIG 'EM!
Last edited by GrampZ; 11-25-2013 at 08:03 PM. Reason: typos
11-25-2013, 08:14 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
.......any car that can use Turbo(s) will......with today's technology such as f.injection, advanced pcms, turbos are making a strong comeback and will replace superchargers soon enough......as they add too much weight, cost fuel economy and overall rob horsepower to make power.
11-26-2013, 09:26 AM
#27
Moderator
Member Since: Dec 2002
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
Posts: 40,065
Received 3,578 Likes
on
1,619 Posts
A 6.2 Supercharged engine sounds like an LS9. Why then would they not have 638HP... I would call the accuracy of the numbers suspect. The word I hear is the Z0x (heard both Z07 and Z06) will be normally aspirated and about 100 HP more than the base C7 engine. Followed by a ZR1 with 700+. But, Hey, you know about rumors.
11-26-2013, 09:42 AM
#28
Le Mans Master
You beat me to the punch.
I think we'll see a supercharged performance version as a 2015 model - with like 600+ hp. Why? Customers with that kind of money will spend it elsewhere if Corvette delays another year (look at the impatience on this forum alone). So the quickest way to a "super" version of the car is to use technology they're already familiar with (i.e., ZR1). The engineering is then mainly vehicle and engine management integration (though I'm sure they'll incorporate lessons learned about supercharging). I've seen the arguments for the LS7, but that's a bit like asking for round tail lights. Corvette is recruiting a whole new generation of customers. The C7 is more modern and "edgy." The LS7 isn't. And it's about at the warrantable limit of it's potential power output.
I also think, as QUIKAG points out, that they're working on twins (and probably also 8-speed and PDK technology). Why? Because a supercharged model is really just a bridge to a more modern (exciting / trackable / efficient / marketable) high-performance powerplant. They also need those technologies (and technology development experiences) to feed conceptual design of the C8. Since the C8 has to be a much larger jump than C6 - C7 was, Corvette knows it can't expect to move from what's essentially 2006-ish C6 supercharger technology to a car utilizing hybrid power / "exotic" materials / and extensive vehicle automation. Every bit of "intel" we've seen says there's a supercharged model about to be unveiled. But it makes no sense that Corvette would rehash that model several times and then jump across the Grand Canyon to the C8. So there has to be more to the C7 performance model story -- unless they're going to shorten the C7 life cycle and get to the C8 sooner.
Just my .02 -- no claim to intel.
BTW, QUICKAG, GIG 'EM!
I think we'll see a supercharged performance version as a 2015 model - with like 600+ hp. Why? Customers with that kind of money will spend it elsewhere if Corvette delays another year (look at the impatience on this forum alone). So the quickest way to a "super" version of the car is to use technology they're already familiar with (i.e., ZR1). The engineering is then mainly vehicle and engine management integration (though I'm sure they'll incorporate lessons learned about supercharging). I've seen the arguments for the LS7, but that's a bit like asking for round tail lights. Corvette is recruiting a whole new generation of customers. The C7 is more modern and "edgy." The LS7 isn't. And it's about at the warrantable limit of it's potential power output.
I also think, as QUIKAG points out, that they're working on twins (and probably also 8-speed and PDK technology). Why? Because a supercharged model is really just a bridge to a more modern (exciting / trackable / efficient / marketable) high-performance powerplant. They also need those technologies (and technology development experiences) to feed conceptual design of the C8. Since the C8 has to be a much larger jump than C6 - C7 was, Corvette knows it can't expect to move from what's essentially 2006-ish C6 supercharger technology to a car utilizing hybrid power / "exotic" materials / and extensive vehicle automation. Every bit of "intel" we've seen says there's a supercharged model about to be unveiled. But it makes no sense that Corvette would rehash that model several times and then jump across the Grand Canyon to the C8. So there has to be more to the C7 performance model story -- unless they're going to shorten the C7 life cycle and get to the C8 sooner.
Just my .02 -- no claim to intel.
BTW, QUICKAG, GIG 'EM!
So, then where does that leave the C7 ZR1? As you mentioned, I think it will let it move up market with a dual-clutch, almost all CF, twin turbo V8 to compete and (kick the crap out of), the Ferrari 458 and it's successor, any pending super Gallardo model, any Ford supercar that may come out, the new Viper and any ACR model, 991 GT3, 991 GT3 RS, any 991 GT2 or GT2 RS. Then, on the other front, it will be comfy smooth and very high tech for a very swift daily driver ala 991 Turbo Porsche, etc. Price it around $150k (yes, I know that is a lot of coin, but read all the aforementioned goodies) and I think you'll have a high-end seller. I'd buy one.
For those that don't want to spend that kind of coin, you'll have a major a** kicker C7 Z06 for probably around $105-110k. Everyone else can get a C7 Z51 and still have a world class sports car.
11-26-2013, 10:18 AM
#29
Melting Slicks
You beat me to the punch.
I think we'll see a supercharged performance version as a 2015 model - with like 600+ hp. Why? Customers with that kind of money will spend it elsewhere if Corvette delays another year (look at the impatience on this forum alone). So the quickest way to a "super" version of the car is to use technology they're already familiar with (i.e., ZR1). The engineering is then mainly vehicle and engine management integration (though I'm sure they'll incorporate lessons learned about supercharging). I've seen the arguments for the LS7, but that's a bit like asking for round tail lights. Corvette is recruiting a whole new generation of customers. The C7 is more modern and "edgy." The LS7 isn't. And it's about at the warrantable limit of it's potential power output.
I also think, as QUIKAG points out, that they're working on twins (and probably also 8-speed and PDK technology). Why? Because a supercharged model is really just a bridge to a more modern (exciting / trackable / efficient / marketable) high-performance powerplant. They also need those technologies (and technology development experiences) to feed conceptual design of the C8. Since the C8 has to be a much larger jump than C6 - C7 was, Corvette knows it can't expect to move from what's essentially 2006-ish C6 supercharger technology to a car utilizing hybrid power / "exotic" materials / and extensive vehicle automation. Every bit of "intel" we've seen says there's a supercharged model about to be unveiled. But it makes no sense that Corvette would rehash that model several times and then jump across the Grand Canyon to the C8. So there has to be more to the C7 performance model story -- unless they're going to shorten the C7 life cycle and get to the C8 sooner.
Just my .02 -- no claim to intel.
BTW, QUICKAG, GIG 'EM!
I think we'll see a supercharged performance version as a 2015 model - with like 600+ hp. Why? Customers with that kind of money will spend it elsewhere if Corvette delays another year (look at the impatience on this forum alone). So the quickest way to a "super" version of the car is to use technology they're already familiar with (i.e., ZR1). The engineering is then mainly vehicle and engine management integration (though I'm sure they'll incorporate lessons learned about supercharging). I've seen the arguments for the LS7, but that's a bit like asking for round tail lights. Corvette is recruiting a whole new generation of customers. The C7 is more modern and "edgy." The LS7 isn't. And it's about at the warrantable limit of it's potential power output.
I also think, as QUIKAG points out, that they're working on twins (and probably also 8-speed and PDK technology). Why? Because a supercharged model is really just a bridge to a more modern (exciting / trackable / efficient / marketable) high-performance powerplant. They also need those technologies (and technology development experiences) to feed conceptual design of the C8. Since the C8 has to be a much larger jump than C6 - C7 was, Corvette knows it can't expect to move from what's essentially 2006-ish C6 supercharger technology to a car utilizing hybrid power / "exotic" materials / and extensive vehicle automation. Every bit of "intel" we've seen says there's a supercharged model about to be unveiled. But it makes no sense that Corvette would rehash that model several times and then jump across the Grand Canyon to the C8. So there has to be more to the C7 performance model story -- unless they're going to shorten the C7 life cycle and get to the C8 sooner.
Just my .02 -- no claim to intel.
BTW, QUICKAG, GIG 'EM!
I have a contact @ Chevy that confirmed the LS7 will not be an option for the C7. The Z28 CAMARO will be the last car with a 427 ( for a while anyway). He also said there will be more "cars" but did not use the term Z. To me, that implies more powerful C7 models to come, but with different namesakes.
He really didn't give us anything we didn't already know. We've seen the Z28 and spy shots of a wide body C7, but I didn't even consider an EV hybrid. That would be sick but doubt there's a market for it.
Selfishly, I hope they don't call the latest and greatest C7 a Z or ZR, but definitely want a wide body with over 700 horses to compete with the worlds greatest sports cars.
Hope the guys suggesting a 2015 release are right
11-26-2013, 10:26 AM
#30
Melting Slicks
I bet the GM executives and engineers love watching us debate on what they are doing. I hope they keep the Z06 name and not rename it a Z07 and keep it NA. A NA car would be much better for track duty and they could still bump the HP to 610-625. Keep the forced induction on one model, the ZR1
11-26-2013, 10:35 AM
#31
Le Mans Master
I bet the GM executives and engineers love watching us debate on what they are doing. I hope they keep the Z06 name and not rename it a Z07 and keep it NA. A NA car would be much better for track duty and they could still bump the HP to 610-625. Keep the forced induction on one model, the ZR1
What other car maker on the planet makes a 600hp naturally aspirated engine? I can't think of anything besides a Ferrari and Lambo V12, AMG V12 (in McLaren F1) and maybe a few other hyper exotic cars with prices to match. Do any of those have 100k mile powertrain warranties and will likely last 150k-200k miles under normal use? Uhhhh, I don't think so.
GM has probably realized they could do a VERY detuned supercharged LT1 variant with 600+ hp with an awesome cooling system (radiator/heat exchanger, etc.) that would be bulletproof for track duty.
I don't know about you guys, but even though I love the LS7, using all that LS9 torque to explode out of the hole at the track is just an awesome experience for me. I don't think any C7 Z06 owners will complain when they get a supercharged V8 instead of NA. In theory, sure, I'd love a 5.5L LT7 race engine that revs to 8,000rpm and makes 575hp naturally aspirated in the C7 Z06, but I just don't think it's realistic from a price/durability standpoint.
Yes, I love posting this video of mine, but check out that LS9 thrust. This is what the C7 Z06 guys will be able to do all day long at the track.
11-26-2013, 11:42 AM
#32
Melting Slicks
Viper has 640 HP but with a v10. All good points, no matter what they come out with I'll do my best to get in one after the hype dies down. I refuse to pay dealer mark ups.
11-26-2013, 12:02 PM
#33
Instructor
QUIKAG -
a little off-topic but your video is one of the better examples of rev-matching or heel toe that I have seen to date. Instructors should use this video to demonstrate to people in 60 secs what that concept is all about.
Enjoyed the video, great driving.
a little off-topic but your video is one of the better examples of rev-matching or heel toe that I have seen to date. Instructors should use this video to demonstrate to people in 60 secs what that concept is all about.
Enjoyed the video, great driving.
11-26-2013, 03:25 PM
#34
Pro
Thread Starter
I agree very nice job.
11-26-2013, 05:20 PM
#35
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,247
Received 5,444 Likes
on
2,270 Posts
I think that is the issue. I don't think GM can make a 600+hp NA engine that will hold up to their durability and reliability standards (aka 100k mile powertrain warranty with likely 150k-200k mile service life under normal use).
What other car maker on the planet makes a 600hp naturally aspirated engine? I can't think of anything besides a Ferrari and Lambo V12, AMG V12 (in McLaren F1) and maybe a few other hyper exotic cars with prices to match. Do any of those have 100k mile powertrain warranties and will likely last 150k-200k miles under normal use? Uhhhh, I don't think so.
GM has probably realized they could do a VERY detuned supercharged LT1 variant with 600+ hp with an awesome cooling system (radiator/heat exchanger, etc.) that would be bulletproof for track duty.
I don't know about you guys, but even though I love the LS7, using all that LS9 torque to explode out of the hole at the track is just an awesome experience for me. I don't think any C7 Z06 owners will complain when they get a supercharged V8 instead of NA. In theory, sure, I'd love a 5.5L LT7 race engine that revs to 8,000rpm and makes 575hp naturally aspirated in the C7 Z06, but I just don't think it's realistic from a price/durability standpoint.
Yes, I love posting this video of mine, but check out that LS9 thrust. This is what the C7 Z06 guys will be able to do all day long at the track.
NASA Time Trial - 2010 Corvette ZR1 1:50.44 lap - Eagles Canyon Raceway - YouTube
What other car maker on the planet makes a 600hp naturally aspirated engine? I can't think of anything besides a Ferrari and Lambo V12, AMG V12 (in McLaren F1) and maybe a few other hyper exotic cars with prices to match. Do any of those have 100k mile powertrain warranties and will likely last 150k-200k miles under normal use? Uhhhh, I don't think so.
GM has probably realized they could do a VERY detuned supercharged LT1 variant with 600+ hp with an awesome cooling system (radiator/heat exchanger, etc.) that would be bulletproof for track duty.
I don't know about you guys, but even though I love the LS7, using all that LS9 torque to explode out of the hole at the track is just an awesome experience for me. I don't think any C7 Z06 owners will complain when they get a supercharged V8 instead of NA. In theory, sure, I'd love a 5.5L LT7 race engine that revs to 8,000rpm and makes 575hp naturally aspirated in the C7 Z06, but I just don't think it's realistic from a price/durability standpoint.
Yes, I love posting this video of mine, but check out that LS9 thrust. This is what the C7 Z06 guys will be able to do all day long at the track.
NASA Time Trial - 2010 Corvette ZR1 1:50.44 lap - Eagles Canyon Raceway - YouTube
Given what they've learned with the C6ZR and the already enhanced cooling of the 7 (before they even deploy learnings on heat exchangers, intercoolers etc) leads me to believe they can make 600-650hp with a PD huffer and with fewer heat issues than the C6 ZR (which does a pretty good job with heat for most apps).
And nice runnin'.
11-26-2013, 06:49 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
11-26-2013, 08:39 PM
#37
Something from Jason back in 2011 . . .
I've posted this quote before, but here it is again:
From Jason, in the ZR1 Forum, 7-15-11:
"If I was a betting man I would put money on a 700hp C7 ZR1 or equivalent in 2015-2016. I'm just speculating though."
Hmmmm . . .
From Jason, in the ZR1 Forum, 7-15-11:
"If I was a betting man I would put money on a 700hp C7 ZR1 or equivalent in 2015-2016. I'm just speculating though."
Hmmmm . . .
11-26-2013, 09:12 PM
#38
I really don't care if they use hamsters to get the power as long as it's in the 650 to700hp range I'll be happy..I'm fine with Turbos SC'ers N/A it don't matter!!..and if they don't get to that HP range I'll keep what I've got.
11-27-2013, 10:48 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Ditto
Turn apex hits were great too.
Awesome vid!
Btw, Vette mag says it's a Z07 that's coming with supercharged induction.
Rather right or wrong, I'm drooling in anticipation.
Last edited by ZeeOh6Nut; 11-27-2013 at 10:51 AM.
11-27-2013, 12:28 PM
#40
Le Mans Master
Thanks, guys. As well as the ZR1 has held up to hard track abuse (with only elevated coolant and oil temp levels with sustained 15-20 minute+ sessions and/or very hot (95F+) ambient temps), I think a C7 Z06 with a PD blower is going to do just fine. With what Chevy has learned and with DI and the other cooling improvements with the Gen V engine, I'm guessing the LT7? 6.2 supercharged engine will control temps better than the LS9 for longer periods of time. I can't wait for it and the ZR1 version. Just have to keep saving my pennies for these two world slayers to come out.