neverstop

hey guys,

I'm looking at a setup with an ls9 swapped into it and turbos making 1,100whp on e85.

I am concerned about this level of power on a 4 bolt head setup and I am wondering if there is any consensus in here about what the max whp a zr1/lsa engine setup is capable of in any vaguely reliable way? has anyone else here made this amount of power for any sustained amount of time?


the motor I am talking about is ls9 but has fully forged high end aftermarket crank/rods, pistons, etc also and tuned by great tuner, and has made tons of 1/2 mile pulls but just not sure how much of a time bomb this is.

thanks

Can'tHave2MuchHP

Yeah 1100 is possible out of an LS9. I have no idea about a turbo setup on an LS9, I would imagine that it's basically like a turboed LS3 as far as there's not much LS9 left about it? There's people that make 850 on bolt ons, cam, heads, and E85 and then with a 200 shot push north of 1000-1200.




I'm newer to the LS9, but I can speak about the LSA, and yes it's possible there too. ZL1 guys have done work and have made over 1000 HP on the stock blower.

I brake for nothing

Turbos are more efficient so 1000 should be pretty easy just keep the air charge cool and the tune safe. Internals are stout.

neverstop

thanks guys, I believe that white zr1 above is on an LSX or RHS block but i think I heard him say in the vid it made 1100 before they put another 200 shot on it. and it sounds like that black zr1 is also an RHS block in the interview. I'm more interested in what a stock ls9 block can hold consistently.

that's good to know people making 1200whp with ls9 block though on nitrous. I would think a turbo setup would be easier on the block/bottom end than nitrous so if 1,200whp is good on nitrous that should be much safer on a turbo setup. Or at least as safe/reliable as 1200-1300hp at the crank can be....

i forgot about the zl1 guys too. good point.

If I end up buying this I'll be adding methanol and better inter cooler also to make sure IATs are very low

Mikeyfitz

You'll be fine. People making well over that for a long time lol

lt1z

LS9s hold up well even 4 bolt when set up proper and tuned reasonably. The block would be the first failure point but as mentioned turbos will be more gentle then a stock blower with nitrous shot.

Are you buying that local RX7 Turbo?

screaminchevy

The white ZR1 is RC's old car. It made 1300 after they did a sleeved RHS 388. It made 1000 on boost with C85. The black car is Jim Cosco's, pretty much a replica of RC's car but with an LSX block in it instead. Both of them are at reliable power level, at least now that they're no long at KP Racing.

neverstop

thanks guys,

sounds like 1,100-1,200whp is right at the absolute upper limit of what a 4 bolt ls9 block can take with e85/turbo.

Mr. Gizmo

yes , should go at least 100k miles, then only need to perform the wiggle test.

ajrothm

LOL @ 1100 rwhp reliable...

Can an LS9 "handle" 1100 rwhp? Sure...for a while. At least until it starts pushing water.

Many have made that and a lot more...for a while, but its definitely not "build it and its done forever" forever kind of deal.

Nothing is reliable at 1100 rwhp forever.

They harder/more often you run it, the sooner you'll find the weak point.

Sure dyno queens will last a long time.

LS9 engines are bad *** for sure, definitely the best/strongest long block GM has ever produced, but they were never intended to handle 1000 rwhp...(more like 1200-1300 at the crank if spinning a blower).

Mikeyfitz

I think we all know what "reliable" for these is. Obviously not forever. But a few years of beating is far from unreliable.

ajrothm

Yeah I agree...

Although today it seems that everyone thinks that making 900-1000 rwhp is a cake walk and it lasts with little to no extra maintenance...Just isn't the case. Just like on ls1tech where everyone makes 900-1000 on a junkyard 5.3 and a chinese turbo...LOL... SMH..


If you are making decent power, say 800rwhp+ and beat on it, its going to break something eventually...Just the way it is, thats the game...For damn sure in the 900-1000 rwhp range.

Mikeyfitz

Cracks me up when people say they want 1000 for their daily. Once you crack the 4 digits... Your car becomes fun, but no longer will it be driving everyday. Maintenance is no joke. My 850rwhp is a ton for a toy, but people asking me if they can daily. I mean yeah, you should be 100% fine. But if you beat on it daily, eventually youre gonna break something

lt1z

850whp is the tipping point where you start to transition from regular maintenance driver to a toy. A ZR1 is more reliable at this level then an LS3 car due to the upgrades it comes with from the factory strength wise but you are also spinning the factory blower hard to get there. Sure people push another 400hp out of them on spray etc but it won't live for ever.

A 6 bolt block is a better choice in the 4 digit rwhp range even though you will find examples of stock 5.3s making 1200 and stock long block LS3s over 1000 etc.

ajrothm

My C5Z made 900 rwhp, on a normal street tune through the air filter made 850 rwhp, the engine itself was a fairly expensive forged 402 iron block with mast heads built by a good local builder. I broke several built T56s and 3 built diffs, then did an RPM auto swap, and broke another diff.

The engine lasted pretty well for 2.5 years and 10k miles before the Compstar rubberband crank decided to wipe out the #4 main. Rebuilt the engine with a Dragonslayer and Ultra billet rods etc....Well this time it lasted 3 months before it detonated (on the same tune I had been running on for 2.5 years) and melted most of the pistons. Rebuilt it again, custom pistons, TS AP steel rings etc. Went through the fuel system, tune, meth system etc trying to find the smoking gun and everything was good. After $20k in engine building/rebuilding, I was at the point I was scared to hammer on it, it just wasn't fun anymore and the only thing left was the loss of driveability/reliability.

That's when I decided to jump off of the run away train and get a stock ZR1 or C7Z and just enjoy the ride.

Personally, I think 650-700 rwhp is the perfect zone for reliability and still fairly fast. Unfortunately, when you hit the highways with the big power guys, ***** envy sets in big time.


So in my opinion based on my 5 year odyssey and wasting of $100k, if I had a ZR1, and I was really wanting good reliability, I'd do bolt ons and maybe a small cam and make 700 rwhp and call it good. But I am getting old so take it with a grain of salt...LOL

Can'tHave2MuchHP

I agree with this completely.

neverstop

haha....I'm with you guys for sure. My current setup has LME built LSX block setup and makes just over 900whp. Was a mess getting all the bugs sorted out of it but now that it's pretty ironed out it's been fairly trouble feel lately.

I completely agree that 1,100whp is not going to be reliable really like a normal person would say, I guess reliable to me means "doesn't catch on fire 4 times a year and lasts at least most of one 1/2 mile event without total rebuild"

hahha

but seriously, if it can make 1500-2000 miles a year on the street and maybe 2 half mile events for 2 years without nuking pistons that would be great imo at that power level.

If I end up going this route sounds like probably best to pull my LSX setup but was just curious if a 1,100whp ls9 was like those stock 5.3 setups that go 8s in the foxbodies, which do last a dyno queen run and 5 pulls.... and then grenade.

good color though guys. thanks

ajrothm

FWIW... That white ZR1 that made like 1200+ rwhp, (WHYTDVL) was up for sale almost instantly after they finished it. I watched the car run at TI and the word was it was for sale. Not too long after that, I saw it posted on the forum for sale. So why would you spend $50-60k on a build on a car and want to sell it after only a couple of races?

It was a time bomb and they knew it.


We have another local guy that has a bad *** stock bottom ZR1 that made 900 rwhp on boost and 1200 rwhp on spray and it pushed water as soon as they sprayed it on the street. That was with thick deck Mast heads/studs even.

Needless to say, they just finished an LSX/Mast head build on it and the original LS9 is for sale for a decent price. "Never abused"...

screaminchevy

WHYTDVL was a Lethal car, it never made that much power or ran at TI. RC's car is the one you may be thinking of. And it went up for sale because the AEM that was put on it caused it to run like crap. Or may have been Lance Wester's old white car that made right at 1000.

ajrothm

You are right... WHYTDVL is not the car in the vid above... But the car in the vid above was the one I was speaking about coming up for sale right after they finished it. And when it made that 1300+, it was not a stock LS9.... I don't even think it had an LS9 block in it at that point. It just had the LS9 blower. They had it listed for a fair price considering what he probably had in it. It wasn't posted for very long before I never saw anything else on it again so I assumed it sold.

I know Danny popped an LS9 motor in his silver ZR1 before he sold it as a roller... Then eventually got another silver ZR1.

People thinking these LS9s are bulletproof at 1000+ are sadly mistaken... Nothing is bullet proof at that level.

I'd feel very comfortable with an LS9 at 800 rwhp though if you want it to last a long time and drive it every where.