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Old 01-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #1
JUIC3D
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Default Nitrous install on LS3 - what is used to retard timing?

I'm looking to pick up a Nitrous outlet plate kit for my LS3 and I'm wanting to know what else is needed to properly setup the system and tune accordingly.

I'm planning on starting with a 75-100shot and work up from there.

I know I'll need the necessary safety hardware etc(FPSS, window switch etc), but what do I need to retard timing when the nitrous sprays? Is it all done in the tune(HPT) or is it external hardware that is used to fool the ECU?

I'm new to the nitrous world and want to try it first hand to see if it's something I'll like.

What are some good resources to read up on everything nitrous related. I did a search on this site, but there's not a great deal of information available.
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2013 Grabber Blue Mustang. Bolt-ons and spray: 10.4@132
*SOLD*2008 LS3 Z51 MZ6
|Halltech|OBX|EPS|NX|MANTIC|
472whp/445wtq motor
???whp/???wtq nitrous
Current PR(motor): 10.67@129.2 on a 1.48 60'
Current PR(nitrous) 10.02@139.7 on a 1.57 60'
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:43 PM   #2
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spraying w/ the turbo, or no more turbo?

I was going to use the Lingenfelter unit before I went S/C
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:46 PM   #3
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Slight detour in plans. I've never had a nitrous car and I want to try it. I can always try it out, and if I don't like it, sell the kit and put it towards the turbo setup, but for now, I'm going to try the nitrous route.

I saw you had a baller nitrous setup for sale awhile back but I'm late to the party.

Which lingenfelter unit? I'm reading up in LS1tech right now, trying to gain as much knowledge as I can.

I'm still thinking the NO plate kit for 05-09 vettes will be just what I'm looking for. I'll probably run dual bottles in the back for the bling factor though.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:49 PM   #4
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This is what I would recommend: http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/prod...cat=133&page=1

I sprayed HSW products on my Firebird and was always a fan.

Before I went SC I had pieced most of that kit together but have since sold it off.

It's a full dry-plate kit with their interface that allows for changing the timing/air:fuel when spraying.

Personally I think Nitrous sucks for a street car because you always have to have the bottle open and warmed up to proper pressure. It's the main reason I went with a SC in my vette...I wanted ****-tons, give or take a little, of power all the time

It's sweet for hitting the track once in a while and running ridiculous ET's though. Nothing hits like nitrous.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinjor View Post
Slight detour in plans. I've never had a nitrous car and I want to try it. I can always try it out, and if I don't like it, sell the kit and put it towards the turbo setup, but for now, I'm going to try the nitrous route.

I saw you had a baller nitrous setup for sale awhile back but I'm late to the party.

Which lingenfelter unit? I'm reading up in LS1tech right now, trying to gain as much knowledge as I can.

I'm still thinking the NO plate kit for 05-09 vettes will be just what I'm looking for. I'll probably run dual bottles in the back for the bling factor though.
Yea, I put together a setup that had all the bells and whistles. The way I drive though, I would have probably emptied the bottle in no time and would have gotten tired of not having the power on tap.

I think it was the LNC-200? It's the launch control/timing control box that plugs into the stock harness. I'm pretty sure you wire it into the nitrous arm switch or to the selenoid (depending if you really want that timing pulled only while spraying, or pre-spray too)

I still have the SS blow down lines I was going to run if you are interested
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloydSummerOf68 View Post
This is what I would recommend: http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/prod...cat=133&page=1

I sprayed HSW products on my Firebird and was always a fan.

Before I went SC I had pieced most of that kit together but have since sold it off.

It's a full dry-plate kit with their interface that allows for changing the timing/air:fuel when spraying.

Personally I think Nitrous sucks for a street car because you always have to have the bottle open and warmed up to proper pressure. It's the main reason I went with a SC in my vette...I wanted ****-tons, give or take a little, of power all the time

It's sweet for hitting the track once in a while and running ridiculous ET's though. Nothing hits like nitrous.

What about this new NANO stuff? It's supposed to keep bottle pressure at peak for the life of the bottle--any feedback?
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:01 PM   #7
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Yea, I put together a setup that had all the bells and whistles. The way I drive though, I would have probably emptied the bottle in no time and would have gotten tired of not having the power on tap.

I think it was the LNC-200? It's the launch control/timing control box that plugs into the stock harness. I'm pretty sure you wire it into the nitrous arm switch or to the selenoid (depending if you really want that timing pulled only while spraying, or pre-spray too)

I still have the SS blow down lines I was going to run if you are interested
Thanks TT. I'll let you know if I need it. I'll look into that Lingenfelter product too.

I'm tentatively planning on running dual 10 or 15 lb bottles since ya, it would suck to run out of juice and I don't want to be forced to fill it all the time.

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Originally Posted by FloydSummerOf68 View Post
It's sweet for hitting the track once in a while and running ridiculous ET's though. Nothing hits like nitrous.
That's what I'm banking on. I've never had a nitrous car and the ones I've ridden in were all in the 450whp range on bottle. . .
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:10 PM   #8
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I run the NitrousOutlet plate kit on my LS3 - Talk to Fran at RPM, he can answer all your questions. Made 615rwhp on the bottle.

You'll love it.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:14 PM   #9
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What did it make on motor? How much were you spraying? What kind of torque did it make? Fran at RPM? RPM Transmissions? Or Race Proven Motorsports? My car makes 494 on motor and I'm looking to see 650/700+ on bottle with a 150 shot. I'll start small though, 75-100 until I get used to it. Plus, I doubt my stock clutch will hold the 600+ for long, if at all.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinjor View Post
What did it make on motor? How much were you spraying? What kind of torque did it make? Fran at RPM? RPM Transmissions? Or Race Proven Motorsports? My car makes 494 on motor and I'm looking to see 650/700+ on bottle with a 150 shot. I'll start small though, 75-100 until I get used to it. Plus, I doubt my stock clutch will hold the 600+ for long, if at all.
Made 475 on motor/Stock heads/cam only car.

615 spraying a 150shot

590tq

Fran @ RPM MotorSports tuned it
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:01 PM   #11
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http://www.nanonitrous.com/

Nano allows you to have perfect pressure all the time. Just turn both bottles on and your good to go. No heater to deal with. any paintball shot, scuba shop, ect. can fill it.


If you go with a dual nitrous bottle setup, then you will need 2 nano bottles. Thats 4 bottles in your car. hahaa thats a lot.



If your still on stock clutch you will toast it on 100shot. These supercharged guys make 550tq at 5k rpm. On the Juice you will make that on the Hit. Tq is what kills your clutch.

you will prolly need to look into fueling options as well.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:50 AM   #12
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Yep, clutch let go tonight at the track. It glazed on the first run and after that I couldn't launch it at all. The best I could get is a 1.7 60' and an 11.2@127mph. . . crappy--I guess the clutch will have to come before the juice.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:04 AM   #13
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Mcleod RXT.

Good luck, Justin! The fast nitrous cars in Houston that I have seen mostly run the Lingenfelter box. I'm not a tuner, but I know the system keeps the timing up until the system is armed and you pin it. Then it pulls timing. I'd use a standalone C16 with it. Guys are getting great results here(Mexico) with them.

I have the Harriss Speed controller in my car, but I have never sprayed the car or tuned it. Good luck man!
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:16 AM   #14
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Mcleod RXT.

Good luck, Justin! The fast nitrous cars in Houston that I have seen mostly run the Lingenfelter box. I'm not a tuner, but I know the system keeps the timing up until the system is armed and you pin it. Then it pulls timing. I'd use a standalone C16 with it. Guys are getting great results here(Mexico) with them.

I have the Harriss Speed controller in my car, but I have never sprayed the car or tuned it. Good luck man!
Thanks Mark.

Just curious--why do you say the Mcleod RXT? I need to do my research but I was leaning towards the LS9R or the LS9X.

The car is my daily driver and I want my wife to still be able to drive it so big nasty single disc clutches are a no go. I'd gladly spend more money to maintain streetability.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinjor View Post
Thanks Mark.

Just curious--why do you say the Mcleod RXT? I need to do my research but I was leaning towards the LS9R or the LS9X.

The car is my daily driver and I want my wife to still be able to drive it so big nasty single disc clutches are a no go. I'd gladly spend more money to maintain streetability.
No problem, Justin.

Ask any forum member here or elsewhere that has driven my car. As light or slightly lighter than a stock LS7 clutch, and handles 40-180 pulls, big burnouts, hard launches, and never skips a beat. It is very good to slip and cut 1.4-1.6 60ft times. I driven an LS9R clutch and I liked it, but not quite as much as my clutch. Probably because I am used to it. I haven't ever raced a car with one, though, so I can't make an objective opinion on which is better for strait line racing like we do.

This clutch is an absolute pleasure to drive daily.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:27 AM   #16
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Interesting info. Where did you purchase? I'll add that one on my list of clutches to research.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:37 AM   #17
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I'm not sure, I'll have to look at my bank account/email. I don't ever hold clutch companies to warranties so I really don't keep receipts on that stuff, since you have to do the proper break in, etc and no telling if they will void your warranty. I will say that at 600rwhp, I toasted the LS7 clutch in just a couple passes, and then toasted the ACT twin in about 2,000 miles with just a couple passes. We have 1-3 hour line waits in Houston a lot of the time, so with that few of miles, I wasn't pleased with only a few track outings. With how good of a driver you are, and the 60ft's you are looking for, I would do your research. I plan on pushing the Mcleod to around 900rwhp, and have faith in it.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:26 AM   #18
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Haha, thanks Mark. I still have tons to learn about launching/driving but I'll get it eventually.

Blower is different than nitrous though--how do you think that clutch would fare against an instant 150ftlbs of torque(+/-650-700tq) vs a slower ramp-in like a boosted car?

Again, I'll have to do my research and see what's working for people. I don't mind spending money on a clutch if it'll hold and offer wife-approved streetability

Thanks again for the post. I appreciate your feedback.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
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What about this new NANO stuff? It's supposed to keep bottle pressure at peak for the life of the bottle--any feedback?
Supposed to be awesome...I've never had it it in my cars though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinjor View Post
I'm tentatively planning on running dual 10 or 15 lb bottles since ya, it would suck to run out of juice and I don't want to be forced to fill it all the time.
Keep in mind that running a dual bottle setup (especially dual 15lb bottles) with nano is not going to be a cheap route.

You'll be looking at ~2 grand in parts for a dual bottle plate kit + two nano bottles + bottle brackets + ~$100 bucks everytime you refill the setup.

It'll make sweet power, but depending on how long you keep the setup and how often you spray it you'll have to figure out if it would be more cost effective to go forced induction.

If you just want the power at the track then it'll likely be the most cost effective route. A setup like you're wanting is definitely not like throwing a single nozzle, bare-bones dry kit in the car for 300 bucks ha ha.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:34 AM   #20
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I have no doubt it'll me more cost effective to go FI, but I'm really itching to try nitrous and see if I like it. Hell, I may build the kit, have it tuned and hate it, and then turn around and resell it all.

I'm not one to go half-assed on anything so I'll likely go with a twin 10lb bottle setup and see how I like it. I can always add the NANO stuff later on if the shoe fits. I'm a symmetry freak so having 1 bottle off to the side will drive me absolutely bonkers. I honestly have a hard enough time dealing with just the driver's seat in when I race. It's some kind of OCD thing, but I crave and thrive on symmetry. I had both ears pierced and gauged, and my tattoos are symmetrical. It's a problem.

There are a few guys selling brand new plate kits at a fraction of the cost so I'll likely go that route after I figure out this whole clutch situation.
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