Streetk14

Ken,
I hope you get a chance to come back in and follow up in this thread, but I think we all appreciate you taking the time to respond to some of the questions. Since you're here, I have one:

What has been your experience with rotor coating wear/damage on the TVS2300 rotor group? I know Magnuson as a company has always advised against spraying anything through the rotors of their superchargers, but myself and many others have done it without any noticeable issues. The very few pictures I've seen on the internet of this wear were from people spraying washer fluid or a water/meth mix, and typically on the previous generation Eaton blower (112/122).

So I'm just curious if you've personally seen any issues on the TVS2300 with the use of straight methanol injection pre-rotor.

Thanks

scottg

I asked my tuner about meth this year. He said it will dirty the engine for my purpose.

Streetk14

Lots of guys spray meth through PD blowers. I've done it on two different builds with Magnuson blowers myself. It actually does the OPPOSITE of what your tuner says -- it will help keep the valves and combustion chambers cleaner vs. no meth.

Now whether pure meth causes rotor coating wear on the TVS blowers with long term use is a different story. I'm not sure if you're aware, but Ken (the guy I was directing the question at) was one of the brains behind the design and engineering of the Heartbeat blower. So I wanted to hear his thoughts.


No offense to you or your tuner, but a number of us have been at this game for a long time.

schpenxel

I've never heard anyone say meth would "dirty" an engine.

Streetk14

Yeah, kind of thinking something was lost in translation.

CI GS

Thanks for the link to the Vid.
Couple of things that occurred to me:
It would probably be hard to spray Meth in the plenum, downstream from the rotors and before the charge air coolers - as recommended by Ken - with a conventional nozzle meth kit, without causing distribution problems. That is, unless someone could come up with a spraybar for the meth - like a nitrous plate type spraybar - that runs through the plenum and sprays a fine meth mist evenly across the face of the charge air coolers. Build that mousetrap, and that will no doubt enhance the output of your Heartbeat. Pardon the pun.
Secondly, it sounds from what Ken is saying that the taller, angled charge air coolers together with the taller lid results in an increase of about ~30rwhp on the standard Commodore HSV kit over the standard Corvette kit. That's pretty significant, IMV. Would be real interesting to see what the difference in power and IAT between the two would be on back to back runs on the same engine...
Something else occurred to me when I was looking at the cutaway comparison of the two lids that Ken posted earlier today - it may be that running short engine/trans mounts, like the ones that Hinson offers, might eliminate any cowl interference. Maybe one of you guys could check to see what kind of clearance you have between the cowl and your lid now, so that we can better judge that?

CI GS

Maybe he meant that it would make your engine "do the dirty"??
As in, perform like a **** star?!

schpenxel

Perhaps

m_LeDez

I considered looking into swapping over to the taller HB lid since I'm still using my RK hood, but looks tight at the cowl. Could have some fitment issues, but if Magnuson wants to send me the taller lid....I'd be happy to try it out!

CI GS

It's kinda hard to see from that photo, but it does look tight! Only one way to find out for sure... Find a camaro with a HB and borrow his lid!

PerformanceDefined

I am almost certain that the Camaro lid will collide with the wiper cowl.

IMO, the issue with spraying onto the rotors is two-fold: <1> Thermal shock onto the coating & rotors; and <2> Corrosion/erosion/oxidisation of the aluminium (inc CAC's).
That doesn't mean it failure is imminent, but it will effect the supercharger life.

scottg

No offense taken, He has been around a long time too and have seen some awesome builds in his shop and he has seen a lot of cars that have it. I will press him on why or what he has seen or saw that makes him feel that way . I have no clue what long time use would do. I"am in it for the long haul. Meaning not getting a another vette this is it.

CI GS

Thanks again Ken. I'm sorry to be beating what may seem to be a dead horse here, but I asked this question on these forums back in 2013 and someone at Magnuson said they thought the HSV lid would hit the cowl. I'm assuming that the HSV lid is the same as the Camaro one?
I also remember someone telling me that the 5/8-3/4" spacers that Magnuson instructs you to install in their installation manual (see picture below) were optional and were for added clearance to make sure the Lid didn't hit the hood liner on the C6. I'm not sure that is the case, so I would ask the guys on here that have the HB to confirm if they use those spacers.
Obviously, if the C6 Vette HB lid can work without the spacers, there's an extra 3/4" of clearance to be had at the cowl from running such spacers.
It would be great for us to KNOW if the taller lid and CACs can work on the C6 or not. Again, I'm sorry to sound like a stuck record, but I've been waiting 2 years now for a definitive answer on this.

scottg

N0 I saw that movie

Streetk14

I'm sure he was referring to the cases of rotor coating damage that have been reported over the years. While there is a risk of premature supercharger wear, it's worth the risk to many of us. If my rotors eventually need to be re-coated, I can deal with it.

We all take risk modifying our cars, and I don't see spraying meth through the rotors any more risky than bolting a supercharger onto a high compression engine never intended for forced induction. In fact, I'd prefer to protect my engine with the octane gains and ability to run a semi normal amount of ignition timing. But to each their own. Unless E85 becomes readily available where I live, my Heartbeat will keep drinking meth.

PerformanceDefined

Yes - Camaro/CTSV/Commodore(HSV) lid is the same. 2 lids available: Low = "Corvette"; High = "Camaro."
The HB kit fits the C6 without the spacers when the vehicle is new & fresh. Unfortunately, gravity has the same effect to hood liners as it does to most women - it causes sagging over time. To eliminate the hood lining touching the lid, the options are to remove the hood liner; reattach the hood liner with adhesive at the conflict area; or add spacers. The first two options don't appeal to most owners.

With all the enthusiasm on this forum for a fitment check, maybe one of you could post an enquiry on one of the Camaro or CTS-V web sites for a meet-n-swap-lids session?

PerformanceDefined

Just an FYI, the rotors cannot be recoated (not that you will probably need it).
The rotor group (bearing plate assembly) would have to be replaced along with new housing bearings.

Enterprisehunter

I am really liking all the information everyone has been including in this thread, my favorite so far on Corvetteforum.com...

A HEARTBEAT SUPERCHARGER IS IN MY NEAR FUTURE!!!

CI GS

Thanks again Ken, for sharing your knowledge. I've learned more about the Heartbeat on this thread in the last couple of days than I've learned in the last couple of years!
I think that answers it for me. If you can add 3/4" spacers on the engine cradle and then lower the engine a further 3/8" with Hinson's lower engine mounts, I'm thinking that should give us enough clearance to fit the Camaro lid on a C6 with an aftermarket blower hood??
I'm thinking that such a setup with the bigger charge air coolers, a 81mm/8" balancer and the larger snout and TB could eclipse the 700rwhp mark on a cammed LS3. Since monsta01 has hit 660+ already through an A6, then it should certainly be possible with an M6.
Over to you Monsta man! We just need to find you a donor Camaro and a hood!

monsta01

Looks like I won't have dyno results until Tuesday. Anxiously awaiting!