schpenxel

I'm wondering if you could use the Comp adjustable up top, then an ECS spring loaded tensioner down near the balancer. It's totally separate from their SC head unit bracket. Hmmm I'll have to think about it some more. I can't think of a reason it wouldn't work though.

Chiselchst

Thanks...


Schpenxel; that sounds interesting. I assume with a 96mm upper, it's not a big deal, but moving smaller it becomes more an issue. I'm hoping with a 90mm, I can get by.
This Weds blower should be installed.

schpenxel

(credit Sammy for the picture)

Yep--I'm like 99% sure the ECS tensioner bracket + tensioner + comp fixed tensioner to replace stock one would work. Who wants to be the guinea pig? It isn't worth bothering unless your belt is really slipping and you're sure more tension would help

CI GS

Thanks Carson! I've thought of the same thing, because I remember seeing somewhere (most likely on your massive thread) a picture of the ECS tensioner, but I haven't been able to find it again. You mean the one that's down below, by the balancer, correct? Maybe I should give ECS a call. I mean, it looks like I have enough invested in this 6 rib setup already, so WTH not just go for a little extra insurance?
The only worry I have with using the non-sprung adjustable comp tensioner is that it may put too much stress on the water pump pulley (which I tried to get welded before I put it back in but couldn't find an actual welder).
I think the real reason that everyone uses a spring tensioner is that it's less stressful on the belt and accessories than if it were fixed, because it is able to allow the belt to slip, rather than stretch, on sudden deceleration. I've seen a video of the spring loaded tensioner on the 4.0 whipple on a COPO Camaro when it was sitting on the starting line on the two-step, and it was loading and unloading rapidly and violently, which made me understand how these things work.
BTW: the biggest PITA with putting the belt on these cars for me is getting the damn belt wedged between the ABS module and the P/S pulley. What I do for that is loosen the ABS module by backing out the two mounting bolts from underneath the car and just pushing the module forward enough to get the belt in place. After that, it's fairly straightforward: I just take the small idler off, hold the tensioner down against the stop and wiggle the idler onto its mounting lug and thread the bolt into that and tighten it down, then release the tensioner. The Comp tensioner would make life easier for that, because you don't have to hold it down, as it's not spring loaded, and it looks like it has a much greater range than the stock tensioner.
PS: hope everything goes good today Carson. Looking forward to the pics and video footage!

schpenxel

I was just looking back through some pictures and the ECS one has it's own little mounting bracket that uses a few of the timing cover bolt holes and maybe the original AC tensioner bolt hole, then they mount a spring loaded tensioner on top of that that is quite strong. It's an OEM Ford tensioner, but it's way stronger than any GM one I've seen.

You're probably right about the water pump hole strength being an issue...

Thanks! Hopefully all works out tomorrow. Race is on, not much doubt about that.. I just hope to not blow anything up.

Here's a few pictures I found of the ECS setup:

CI GS

Hey Scotty! I meant to say before that, for the HX coolant lines, there's a small tab on the power steering reservoir bracket that you need to use a cable tie to pull the hoses away from the tensioner. If you look at the photo above that Carson posted, you'll see how I have mine tied loosely together with cable ties. One of those ties goes through the little tab that I'm talking about. It's little things like that that make you realize that the HBeat kit is a well thought-out, OEM-quality, kit. Just check to see whether yours is tied to that, because the tensioner on my car can't even touch those hoses with the belt off of it.

CI GS

Cool. Thanks man. I thought your event was on today. We're rooting for you dude!
I have an ECS install manual downloaded somewhere. I'll take a look at that and see what I can figure out and report back on here.
BTW: I'm pretty sure the belt is slipping, possibly on the balancer? because I reached down in there last night and I can feel it's still a bit slippery from the coolant that got sprayed everywhere on the front of the engine the other day. It still ran like a fart in hurricane that day though! It cleaned up the 140mph mark easily, and was still pulling in 5th when I decided to brake down for a corner that was rapidly approaching.

schpenxel

It is appreciated I'm going to take a run or two with things set a little richer/little less timing, then probably turn it up a bit depending on how it goes. I'm running 260 GT Plus fuel so knock shouldn't really be an issue

140mph is moving! Stay safe

scottg

Yup I saw that. Had the car out of the garage just long enough to bring it in for a brake upgrade. Talked to DRM about the tensioner and that is what brought on the conversation about a new method stop the movement. Brought it home in the garage and since its 39 degrees now with a high of 54 tomorrow I"am going to dig out my shiniest black tie straps and put them in the same location. Thanks for the advice.

CI GS

Just wanted to report back that the Comp manually adjustable tensioner install was a flop. It can't fit because the lug that you use to tighten the tensioner, by putting a 3/8" breaker bar in it, hits the HX hose when you pull the tensioner outwards to tighten the belt. It also looks like the pulley is in a different position than with the stock tensioner.
My stock tensioner is really weak. I'm starting to wonder if I don't have a dud one or something. Really wish someone would build a HD version.
BTW: Finally managed to run the old car again today. Threw 5 gallons of Sunoco GT260 Plus (104 octane) in it on top of a half tank of 93 Pump, set the stoich to 14.4, did some tweaks to the TCM tune to extend the shift points up to ~6800 RPM and moved the TCC lockup up to 85mph in 3rd and let her rip.
It scoots pretty good. Ran it up as high as 142 (according to the scan) on one pass, from a 60mph roll. It pulled like a freight train right to 6900 in 4th. Shifts are just about perfect now too. Man I love this car!

Chiselchst

Sammy, I doubt you missed this in a thread a few rows down, but have you looked at the ECS TVS2300 tensioner?


Sounds like you have that sucker dialed in! Being new to this, I can't imagine that kind of power. Be careful! Any faster and you'll need a chute to keep you from driving off that rock!

CI GS

I'm going to revive this thread because I'm too lazy to start a new one and I just wanted to report some of my latest tinkerings and ponderings.
I've installed Weld RT-S 77 wheels and M&H rubber all around: 17x11" w/ 325/45/17s on the rear and 17x5" & 185/55/17 skinnies up front. 17psi rear and 35psi in the fronts. The car rides nice with this setup and although I obviously haven't gone storming around corners with it, I can say that it doesn't handle badly at all. At normal speeds I can't tell the difference, except that it rides smoother.
BTW: these tires are listed as being 28" and 26" in diameter respectively, but are in fact 27.5" and 25.5" measured installed on the rim and inflated to the pressures indicated above.
One really odd thing to report is that although I've driven the car 3 times now without the TPMS installed, the car doesn't seem to have noticed and somehow still displays the tire pressures from the stock tires???
Here's the thing: When I was testing the launch technique, I encountered a couple of things.
Firstly, it threw a DTC and went into reduced power mode on the second launch, which I thought was from the difference in tire heights being outside the allowable range. However, after scanning the car with HPT whilst I made a third run, I discovered that the evap purge solenoid was disconnected - the wire had somehow become unclipped, probably when I was messing with something.
So, that appears to be what sent it into into reduced power mode.
But here's the really weird part, when I looked over the scan, I found a couple of things:
Firstly, I saw that it was going lean in the middle, with AFR fluctuating between the high 11s and low 12s!! I'm not sure if that could be caused by the evap purge solenoid being disconnected? I'll have to find the answer to that later if the weather holds.
But, secondly, and really strangely, I found that the boost exceeded 14psi (14.03psi) at between 4,900 and 5,200 rpm in 4th gear, just before I eased off (at 113mph), whereas it was only making ~13psi at 6700 before it shifted into 4th? So, it looks like it was building big boost up top of 4th gear?
I need to review the log a little better today, but from a quick review yesterday, it looked to me like boost is fluctuating for sure.
So, now I'm convinced that the belt is slipping, and badly too, unless there's some other explanation for this sudden spike in boost? Cats going, maybe?
That damn stock spring tensioner is really feeble, and I can't help but think I really need to solve this problem somehow.
To be continued...

CI GS

After doing some research on here, I'm now thinking that the cats are melted or coming apart, and that's why the boost jumped up by >2psi all of a sudden.
I started the car last night and I swear it sounds kinda funny.
As soon as I get a chance, I'm going to put it on the lift and drop the exhaust and take a bigass wood drill and bore those suckers out. Hopefully it won't stink like my truck does with the ARH ORY, but I have a feeling, based on something that schpenxel said about how well the ID injectors seems to be dialed in, that it will better. The Vette also idles much better than the truck too, even though it has a larger cam. I guess I'll know soon enough.

schpenxel

I hope it stinks to high heavens... just so I'm not the only one on here complaining about the smell

It'll probably be as good as it can be, but will still have some fuel smell I'd bet

CI GS

Lol! Yeah, I guess I'll have to keep some Sunoco in it, just to add some flavor to the exhaust fumes.
No doubt the wife will be thrilled about me removing the cats. She's already asked me several times over the last couple of years why I "keep taking my car apart", and if Im trying to "make it loud and stinky like my truck", to which, of course, my reply is usually, "why, yes dear!", which always annoys the crap out of her, for some reason.
Then sometimes, when I'm feeling particularly stupid, I'll remind her of how many wins she had driving my "old loud stinky truck" (on nitrous), beating up on Mustangs, rice rockets and even one of her friend's new Porsche Cayman S.
Somehow, that doesn't seem to help.

schpenxel

Throw some E85 at it.. though I'm guessing that probably isn't so common down there

The idea of a lady driving/racing a nitrous'd Denali and beating a Porsche/etc. is a fairly awesome mental image

CI GS

Eh, not a lot of corn around here so E85 is not a viable option, although a guy I know rang me the other day to say that he's mixing it himself if I wanted to test some in my car, but I declined his generous offer.
The two fuel companies here now are Sol and Rubis, and they both sell gasoline in ~89 and ~92 octane variants. We have a government-run petroleum inspectorate that samples and tests their fuels (via a lab in Florida) from random stations and publishes the tests, so we're pretty certain of what they're selling.
BTW: I didn't realize until the other day that the Sunoco GT260 Plus is like ~15% ethanol, which is why the stoich is lower on that fuel. The car seems to like it though, but maybe not so much the cats??
The old Denali was a crowd pleaser, and beat up on a sh!tload of cars and trucks, back in the day when we had a track. I still get the occasional "Hey, isn't that the truck that used to race at the track?" From random people in parking lots and such.
BTW: if you're interested, there's a bunch of videos on YouTube posted by a friend on mine under "Cayman National" of lots of races between 2009-2011 at our old 1/8 track, and I have a few vids that I posted under "Cayman Drag Racer". Those were the days...

schpenxel

I'll take a look!

Did you ever get approval on the racing event you were working on?

CI GS

Cool.
No, not yet. The senior constabulary here seems to have lost their collective testicular fortitude, and are afraid to grant us permission to race on a public road, even though we had arranged for fire trucks, ambulance and EMT personnel to be on standby at the event, and have safety rules and procedures, officials etc. already appointed and lined up.
In all fairness, it just a case of political expedience, I think. We just fired our last commissioner and now his deputy, who we've sought permission from, is just nervous about doing anything out of the ordinary, it seems.
We're appealing to them to reconsider their position and I'm hopeful that good sense will prevail.
It really, really, sucks not having a track anymore.

CI GS

I'm trying to find one of these belts in a 98":

http://www.gatesracing.com/products/serpentine-belts

Anyone know a vendor on here that sells these.