2009 heartbeat install
03-28-2015, 03:41 PM
#21
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Mar 2007
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I like my engine management system to be able to see what's actually going on inside the manifold. The stock MAP sensor only reads a couple psi above atmospheric pressure (can't remember the exact number). Something like 2 psi.
Predicted injector flow rate is calculated by the pressure differential (i.e. vacuum/boost vs. fuel pressure). Vacuum in the manifold effectively makes the injectors bigger. Boost makes them smaller in the same sense.
From the limited time I've spent looking at logs of my car, it seems that WOT injector flow rate is affected by the boost pressure my MAP sensor reads. So when I hit 11 psi of manifold pressure, the PCM sees it and can more accurately control fueling. At least that's my understanding of how it works. Different GM PCMs do things differently.
I'd say it's worth spending the $40 on either way. I also use mine to display boost via my DashLogic and log boost via HP Tuners. Can't log boost with the stock sensor.
Predicted injector flow rate is calculated by the pressure differential (i.e. vacuum/boost vs. fuel pressure). Vacuum in the manifold effectively makes the injectors bigger. Boost makes them smaller in the same sense.
From the limited time I've spent looking at logs of my car, it seems that WOT injector flow rate is affected by the boost pressure my MAP sensor reads. So when I hit 11 psi of manifold pressure, the PCM sees it and can more accurately control fueling. At least that's my understanding of how it works. Different GM PCMs do things differently.
I'd say it's worth spending the $40 on either way. I also use mine to display boost via my DashLogic and log boost via HP Tuners. Can't log boost with the stock sensor.
03-31-2015, 09:28 AM
#22
I like my engine management system to be able to see what's actually going on inside the manifold. The stock MAP sensor only reads a couple psi above atmospheric pressure (can't remember the exact number). Something like 2 psi.
Predicted injector flow rate is calculated by the pressure differential (i.e. vacuum/boost vs. fuel pressure). Vacuum in the manifold effectively makes the injectors bigger. Boost makes them smaller in the same sense.
From the limited time I've spent looking at logs of my car, it seems that WOT injector flow rate is affected by the boost pressure my MAP sensor reads. So when I hit 11 psi of manifold pressure, the PCM sees it and can more accurately control fueling. At least that's my understanding of how it works. Different GM PCMs do things differently.
I'd say it's worth spending the $40 on either way. I also use mine to display boost via my DashLogic and log boost via HP Tuners. Can't log boost with the stock sensor.
Predicted injector flow rate is calculated by the pressure differential (i.e. vacuum/boost vs. fuel pressure). Vacuum in the manifold effectively makes the injectors bigger. Boost makes them smaller in the same sense.
From the limited time I've spent looking at logs of my car, it seems that WOT injector flow rate is affected by the boost pressure my MAP sensor reads. So when I hit 11 psi of manifold pressure, the PCM sees it and can more accurately control fueling. At least that's my understanding of how it works. Different GM PCMs do things differently.
I'd say it's worth spending the $40 on either way. I also use mine to display boost via my DashLogic and log boost via HP Tuners. Can't log boost with the stock sensor.
03-31-2015, 09:40 AM
#23
Race Director
Member Since: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
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St. Jude Donor '15
I like my engine management system to be able to see what's actually going on inside the manifold. The stock MAP sensor only reads a couple psi above atmospheric pressure (can't remember the exact number). Something like 2 psi.
Predicted injector flow rate is calculated by the pressure differential (i.e. vacuum/boost vs. fuel pressure). Vacuum in the manifold effectively makes the injectors bigger. Boost makes them smaller in the same sense.
From the limited time I've spent looking at logs of my car, it seems that WOT injector flow rate is affected by the boost pressure my MAP sensor reads. So when I hit 11 psi of manifold pressure, the PCM sees it and can more accurately control fueling. At least that's my understanding of how it works. Different GM PCMs do things differently.
I'd say it's worth spending the $40 on either way. I also use mine to display boost via my DashLogic and log boost via HP Tuners. Can't log boost with the stock sensor.
Predicted injector flow rate is calculated by the pressure differential (i.e. vacuum/boost vs. fuel pressure). Vacuum in the manifold effectively makes the injectors bigger. Boost makes them smaller in the same sense.
From the limited time I've spent looking at logs of my car, it seems that WOT injector flow rate is affected by the boost pressure my MAP sensor reads. So when I hit 11 psi of manifold pressure, the PCM sees it and can more accurately control fueling. At least that's my understanding of how it works. Different GM PCMs do things differently.
I'd say it's worth spending the $40 on either way. I also use mine to display boost via my DashLogic and log boost via HP Tuners. Can't log boost with the stock sensor.
04-06-2015, 08:45 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
04-06-2015, 09:18 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
04-06-2015, 09:41 AM
#26
To the OP: looking at your dyno chart, I'm betting that with just a BAP you'll be able to pick up another 20+HP by turning the motor another few hundred RPMs. Contrary to promoted myth on here, these HB blowers don't fall off at high RPM. Haven't seen a dyno sheet yet that doesn't gain HP through ~6500, even with a stock cam. That cam seems to be working.
You may be able to produce over 12psi with an 81mm pulley (if the belt doesn't slip), which would be the highest boost I've seen with the HB on a Vette. You will need meth or race gas at that level of boost though.
This is one of the cams I'm considering now, which is slightly more radical than yours:
http://vengeanceracing.net/2005-c6-c...18-4-1148.html
04-06-2015, 04:53 PM
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
IMO EPS or LXL lobes are nice for street. I tried to post another video but I can"t get it to upload.
04-06-2015, 05:05 PM
#28
Instructor
Thread Starter
Scott's: How did you get the sound clip open?? I've tried a couple of times now to even open it in Winzip and it won't open?
To the OP: looking at your dyno chart, I'm betting that with just a BAP you'll be able to pick up another 20+HP by turning the motor another few hundred RPMs. Contrary to promoted myth on here, these HB blowers don't fall off at high RPM. Haven't seen a dyno sheet yet that doesn't gain HP through ~6500, even with a stock cam. That cam seems to be working.
You may be able to produce over 12psi with an 81mm pulley (if the belt doesn't slip), which would be the highest boost I've seen with the HB on a Vette. You will need meth or race gas at that level of boost though.
This is one of the cams I'm considering now, which is slightly more radical than yours:
http://vengeanceracing.net/2005-c6-c...18-4-1148.html
To the OP: looking at your dyno chart, I'm betting that with just a BAP you'll be able to pick up another 20+HP by turning the motor another few hundred RPMs. Contrary to promoted myth on here, these HB blowers don't fall off at high RPM. Haven't seen a dyno sheet yet that doesn't gain HP through ~6500, even with a stock cam. That cam seems to be working.
You may be able to produce over 12psi with an 81mm pulley (if the belt doesn't slip), which would be the highest boost I've seen with the HB on a Vette. You will need meth or race gas at that level of boost though.
This is one of the cams I'm considering now, which is slightly more radical than yours:
http://vengeanceracing.net/2005-c6-c...18-4-1148.html
No meth or race gas for me . I hope.
04-06-2015, 05:44 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
From my research ,mostly on this forum I believe 630-640 rwhp is the limit with pump gas. Eric, Backstreet Performance said 630-635 so I may add a couple lbs. of boost when I add the BAP but need to take away timing. Right now I'm at at 17*
No meth or race gas for me . I hope.
No meth or race gas for me . I hope.
04-06-2015, 05:55 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
Scott's: How did you get the sound clip open?? I've tried a couple of times now to even open it in Winzip and it won't open?
To the OP: looking at your dyno chart, I'm betting that with just a BAP you'll be able to pick up another 20+HP by turning the motor another few hundred RPMs. Contrary to promoted myth on here, these HB blowers don't fall off at high RPM. Haven't seen a dyno sheet yet that doesn't gain HP through ~6500, even with a stock cam. That cam seems to be working.
You may be able to produce over 12psi with an 81mm pulley (if the belt doesn't slip), which would be the highest boost I've seen with the HB on a Vette. You will need meth or race gas at that level of boost though.
This is one of the cams I'm considering now, which is slightly more radical than yours:
http://vengeanceracing.net/2005-c6-c...18-4-1148.html
To the OP: looking at your dyno chart, I'm betting that with just a BAP you'll be able to pick up another 20+HP by turning the motor another few hundred RPMs. Contrary to promoted myth on here, these HB blowers don't fall off at high RPM. Haven't seen a dyno sheet yet that doesn't gain HP through ~6500, even with a stock cam. That cam seems to be working.
You may be able to produce over 12psi with an 81mm pulley (if the belt doesn't slip), which would be the highest boost I've seen with the HB on a Vette. You will need meth or race gas at that level of boost though.
This is one of the cams I'm considering now, which is slightly more radical than yours:
http://vengeanceracing.net/2005-c6-c...18-4-1148.html
Last edited by scottg; 04-06-2015 at 06:04 PM.
04-06-2015, 06:41 PM
#32
Le Mans Master
You might want to look at upgrading injectors too. You're probably close to running out of injector as well as fuel pump. You're spot on regarding the LXL lobes being quieter. No comparison vs Comp's LSL lobe series. LSK's are even louder.
Last edited by old motorhead; 04-06-2015 at 06:44 PM.
04-06-2015, 06:58 PM
#33
Instructor
Thread Starter
Yes it looks I may be going down that road, but for now I'll just drive it.
04-06-2015, 10:23 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Mar 2007
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I'm actually kind of shocked the injectors aren't tapped out at 600 rwhp. I was damn close to 100% injector duty cycle with the LS9 injectors and a BAP. That was with the 90mm pulley and crap 91 octane making 550 whp.
I'd just be really careful. While it might be okay with cool fuel on a Dynojet, out in the real world making a 4th gear pull could be a different story. Both the lack of a BAP and the injectors make me a bit nervous for you.
04-06-2015, 10:28 PM
#35
Race Director
Member Since: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
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St. Jude Donor '15
I'm actually kind of shocked the injectors aren't tapped out at 600 rwhp. I was damn close to 100% injector duty cycle with the LS9 injectors and a BAP. That was with the 90mm pulley and crap 91 octane making 550 whp.
I'd just be really careful. While it might be okay with cool fuel on a Dynojet, out in the real world making a 4th gear pull could be a different story. Both the lack of a BAP and the injectors make me a bit nervous for you.
. I'm seriously at like 30% duty cycle on mine, which I find quite awesome.
04-07-2015, 12:22 AM
#36
[QUOTE=Streetk14;1589361196]I think that's about what Monsta is making with his pulley combo. I have a feeling the OP isn't really making 9 psi right now though. Just from some quick math, he should be spinning the blower really close to the same speed I was spinning mine with the stock crank pulley and the 90mm blower pulley. Mine only made 7-8 psi at sea level with headers and a stock cam. I'd expect a cammed motor to be a pound or two lower."
That's what I was saying: IIRC monsta01 is making around 11psi with a 81mm upper and an 8" lower. IDK what the specs are on his cam, but I think it could have more intake duration than the OP. Withan 81mm upper would be running the same pulley combo as monsta01 (81mm/8") so my thinking is that he could potentially make another lb. of boost, if he doesn't have any belt slip.
I'm also wondering whether it could also be that with the smaller upper pulley and a 6rib belt there could be a small amount of slip at higher RPMs? I'm not sure how anyone would detect this unless they went to an 8-rib, but unfortunately the smallest 8-rib Magnuson makes is an 85mm.
That's what I was saying: IIRC monsta01 is making around 11psi with a 81mm upper and an 8" lower. IDK what the specs are on his cam, but I think it could have more intake duration than the OP. Withan 81mm upper would be running the same pulley combo as monsta01 (81mm/8") so my thinking is that he could potentially make another lb. of boost, if he doesn't have any belt slip.
I'm also wondering whether it could also be that with the smaller upper pulley and a 6rib belt there could be a small amount of slip at higher RPMs? I'm not sure how anyone would detect this unless they went to an 8-rib, but unfortunately the smallest 8-rib Magnuson makes is an 85mm.
04-07-2015, 01:26 AM
#37
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks for all comments. When I get back in town, I have another appointment on the dyno to work on the fueling . I'll report back. I agree on the boost, expected 7to 8 , but 9 psi is what it showed.
Last edited by Ancient Warrior; 04-07-2015 at 01:30 AM. Reason: add comment
04-07-2015, 10:29 AM
#38
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Mar 2007
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[QUOTE=CI GS;1589361925]
It wasn't an exact number, but I remember him mentioning it making 12 psi peak in some thread around here. With a cam and 8" balancer, that sounds about right. I'd suspect all of us should be pretty close to this with all things being equal. By that I mean no belt slip, sea level altitude, etc.
I always log boost whenever I'm hooked up to HP Tuners. Belt slip should show up as a drop in boost at higher rpms. Mine actually increases slightly, so I'm pretty confident I have none. Also no sign of belt dust. I fought belt slip for a few years on a 122 blown LS1 that was in my '67 Camaro. It's usually pretty obvious. Even after I got rid of noticeable slip, I'd still see dust appearing in certain spots over time. My Heartbeat is clean as a whistle though.
A custom belt tensioner would really be great for the HB. I'm pretty amazed that it's doing what it does on my car with just a stock C6 tensioner and a Gatorback belt.
I think that's about what Monsta is making with his pulley combo. I have a feeling the OP isn't really making 9 psi right now though. Just from some quick math, he should be spinning the blower really close to the same speed I was spinning mine with the stock crank pulley and the 90mm blower pulley. Mine only made 7-8 psi at sea level with headers and a stock cam. I'd expect a cammed motor to be a pound or two lower."
That's what I was saying: IIRC monsta01 is making around 11psi with a 81mm upper and an 8" lower. IDK what the specs are on his cam, but I think it could have more intake duration than the OP. Withan 81mm upper would be running the same pulley combo as monsta01 (81mm/8") so my thinking is that he could potentially make another lb. of boost, if he doesn't have any belt slip.
I'm also wondering whether it could also be that with the smaller upper pulley and a 6rib belt there could be a small amount of slip at higher RPMs? I'm not sure how anyone would detect this unless they went to an 8-rib, but unfortunately the smallest 8-rib Magnuson makes is an 85mm.
That's what I was saying: IIRC monsta01 is making around 11psi with a 81mm upper and an 8" lower. IDK what the specs are on his cam, but I think it could have more intake duration than the OP. Withan 81mm upper would be running the same pulley combo as monsta01 (81mm/8") so my thinking is that he could potentially make another lb. of boost, if he doesn't have any belt slip.
I'm also wondering whether it could also be that with the smaller upper pulley and a 6rib belt there could be a small amount of slip at higher RPMs? I'm not sure how anyone would detect this unless they went to an 8-rib, but unfortunately the smallest 8-rib Magnuson makes is an 85mm.
I always log boost whenever I'm hooked up to HP Tuners. Belt slip should show up as a drop in boost at higher rpms. Mine actually increases slightly, so I'm pretty confident I have none. Also no sign of belt dust. I fought belt slip for a few years on a 122 blown LS1 that was in my '67 Camaro. It's usually pretty obvious. Even after I got rid of noticeable slip, I'd still see dust appearing in certain spots over time. My Heartbeat is clean as a whistle though.
A custom belt tensioner would really be great for the HB. I'm pretty amazed that it's doing what it does on my car with just a stock C6 tensioner and a Gatorback belt.
04-07-2015, 10:48 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
[QUOTE=Streetk14;1589363786]
It wasn't an exact number, but I remember him mentioning it making 12 psi peak in some thread around here. With a cam and 8" balancer, that sounds about right. I'd suspect all of us should be pretty close to this with all things being equal. By that I mean no belt slip, sea level altitude, etc.
I always log boost whenever I'm hooked up to HP Tuners. Belt slip should show up as a drop in boost at higher rpms. Mine actually increases slightly, so I'm pretty confident I have none. Also no sign of belt dust. I fought belt slip for a few years on a 122 blown LS1 that was in my '67 Camaro. It's usually pretty obvious. Even after I got rid of noticeable slip, I'd still see dust appearing in certain spots over time. My Heartbeat is clean as a whistle though.
A custom belt tensioner would really be great for the HB. I'm pretty amazed that it's doing what it does on my car with just a stock C6 tensioner and a Gatorback belt.
Is this on the stock six rib belt?
It wasn't an exact number, but I remember him mentioning it making 12 psi peak in some thread around here. With a cam and 8" balancer, that sounds about right. I'd suspect all of us should be pretty close to this with all things being equal. By that I mean no belt slip, sea level altitude, etc.
I always log boost whenever I'm hooked up to HP Tuners. Belt slip should show up as a drop in boost at higher rpms. Mine actually increases slightly, so I'm pretty confident I have none. Also no sign of belt dust. I fought belt slip for a few years on a 122 blown LS1 that was in my '67 Camaro. It's usually pretty obvious. Even after I got rid of noticeable slip, I'd still see dust appearing in certain spots over time. My Heartbeat is clean as a whistle though.
A custom belt tensioner would really be great for the HB. I'm pretty amazed that it's doing what it does on my car with just a stock C6 tensioner and a Gatorback belt.
