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After doing some test hits on my new motor followed by a lengthy cooldown I pulled into a dark parking lot and popped the hood. My buddy noticed my turbos were glowing red! Now directly after a hit I could see this but we drove/cruised for a good ten minutes after making some low boost hits. Then we let it cool off and drove home (~30 min) without getting on it at all and parked in the dark garage and it was the same.
I can't honestly say I've looked at the engine in the dark before so I don't know if this has been going on for a long time or just started with the new motor that just went in. The new LSX 422 only has ~250 miles on it now. But I will say that under hood temps have always been extreme, like Mountain Dew extreme, which is what prompted me to wrap my manifolds and downpipes and put turbo blankets on. But then again on the cruise out to the meet the wideband threw an error which I chalked up to a failing sensor at the time but knowing what I know now I'm sure it just got too hot, which makes me think this situation is new after the motor swap. I know for sure that the cam was installed dot to dot although I did not degree it. I'm also confident that I have the valves adjusted properly (~.045" of preload) via the adjusters on the Jesel rockers. The car doesn't run like something is "wrong" or smell like it's got unburnt fuel in the exhaust.
The narrow bands (both of which are brand new) are fuel trimming as they should and the wide band shows ~stoich except for under WOT where it's still running fat (low 10's) as I haven't tuned it much on the new motor yet and I just threw some fuel at the boost VE to be safe. Cruise timing is high 40's. Idle timing was 15' but I bumped it up to 30' and no change. Retarded timing is a big cause for this type of thing but that doesn't appear to be the case here. I don't have cats so it's not a clogged cat.
One last thing I can think of is that the motor is showing signs of a bad cam sensor in that it doesn't want to start on the first try quite often but then the second time it fires right up. Although there are no cam codes present and I verified the tune is not suppressing them. It did this before on the old LQ setup and I swapped to the rear cam sensor in that block and it went away but that's no longer an option on the LSX block. So there would appear to be a problem with the front cover cam sensor or the short lead to it from the main harness. Reason I mention this is I've heard if there are cam sensor problems that it will fire the injectors in batch mode (all at one time), but again, it doesn't seem like it's running fat.
Vid of drivers side:
Pic of drivers side:
Flash pic of drivers side for reference:
Passenger side. The small red dot is the manifold showing through the wrap.
Last edited by 5 Liter Eater; 07-27-2015 at 04:16 PM.
I would say normal. The heat wrap does just that, and keeps heat in. Manifolds and turbos will run hotter this way. Also, with the larger displacement engine in there you'll have more backpressure than before; so jump in temps again.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you start melting stuff around the hot parts or cook a turbo. Just leave it running a while to cool down, as i'm sure you already know. Otherwise the oil will burn in the cartridge.
I'm with Joe, I think it's angry at you or your buddy
They're not long starts. It won't start at all when it does it. The starter cycle will time out. Hit it again and it fires right up. It's an Eagle crank with a regular/non-billet 24x reluctor wheel. Came out of my LQ 408. Inspector 12 suggested reluctor wheel too, which made me sick. At his suggestion I'm going to throw a ton of timing at it at idle and see if it goes away.
I don't have an explanation for your glowing exhaust issue but I will say my new engine also has a TON of engine heat now as well, a lot more then before. I also just used a super duper 2500* pure ceramic coating I thought would reduce heat, yet it's definitely hotter. I discussed this with Bret and his theory was that the new cam has so much more over lap that there is more unburned fuel in the charge and its lighting off in the pipes, creating the exhaust heat. My new cam has 15.5* overlap so this is plausible. I'm around 28* timing at idle.
If you're worried about reluctor being off, I would check it with a timing light before throwing a bunch of timing at it. Not risking anything checking with a timing light. I had to do it for the Haltech, and found mine 2deg retarded on my dragonslayer. Can make a piston stop through plug hole or pull a spring and lower valve to use as a depth indicator to find tdc. Make a marker, then force cranking timing to 0deg in tune with all fuel unhooked. Adjust timing until it lines up with marker and see where you're at.
Well me and Bill talked and I don't agree that glowing exhaust is normal or ok bigger cubes or not. Too many ppl running same kit with larger motors not glowing! 100% sure it's a timing thing though. I'm going with the reluctor being off on the crank or the cam was ground WAY off. But because it's not a super special cam I don't think it's the cam.
I talked to Bret who mentioned the timing light thing too. When I put the motor together I put a white mark facing straight up at TDC. I did this more just as a reference. I have it idling at 30' right now. You can see in the video that it's right about where the belt comes off the water pump.
I made a template to show where 30' should be and put it against the balancer and it seems to be about 10' longer than where the timing light mark sat.
Of course this is pretty rough. The paint pen mark is probably at least 3' wide and I wasn't that careful when making it as it was just more for reference for setting valve last and the like, and I'm SWAGing putting the template straight up on the balancer, but it's within ten degrees of the timing light test. I'm going to add 10' to the non PE parts of the HO spark table and take it for a non-spirited drive and see what it does. If it still glows I'm taking the wrap and blankets off and then see.
No difference at all. Spent the majority of a very light throttled ten minute test drive with timing over 50' and they're just as red and glowing as before if not more.
Last edited by 5 Liter Eater; 07-28-2015 at 01:58 AM.
I had this happen to me when I first run my new 427 ERL. Manifolds were glowing red after a 5 minutes idle. I'm sure turbos were glowing as well but I couldn't look at them since they were in my fenders and fenders were on.
I kept raising the idle timing till I hit ~35 and it went away and idled much smoother as well. I'm also running an e40 so I have a dragonslayer with a 24x reluctor wheel. I have a very strong feeling that it's idle and cruise timing.
No difference at all. Spent the majority of a very light throttled ten minute test drive with timing over 50' and they're just as red and glowing as before if not more.
I'm not saying it isn't possible the reluctor is off, but if memory serves right grey cast iron has a visible red glow at night already in the low to mid 700degF range. I would be extremely surprised if the manifolds and housings aren't getting to that from normal driving since they are wrapped and covered, and it's a turbo car with some decent backpressure.
I had this happen to me when I first run my new 427 ERL. Manifolds were glowing red after a 5 minutes idle. I'm sure turbos were glowing as well but I couldn't look at them since they were in my fenders and fenders were on.
I kept raising the idle timing till I hit ~35 and it went away and idled much smoother as well. I'm also running an e40 so I have a dragonslayer with a 24x reluctor wheel. I have a very strong feeling that it's idle and cruise timing.
Was there a root cause to this? Or did you just conclude that the motor liked a **** ton more timing than others. Did you increase it everywhere?
Originally Posted by JDS99
I'm not saying it isn't possible the reluctor is off, but if memory serves right grey cast iron has a visible red glow at night already in the low to mid 700degF range. I would be extremely surprised if the manifolds and housings aren't getting to that from normal driving since they are wrapped and covered, and it's a turbo car with some decent backpressure.
I'm going to try throwing ludicrous timing at it at idle tonight. If this doesn't have an effect I'm going to remove the wrap and blanket from one side.
Originally Posted by schpenxel
Have you used one of those infrared thermometers to see how hot it's actually getting?
I've had one for a while. Went to use it last night and it's borked. Damn harbor freight junk. I'll pick up another soon.
Locked timing at 30 and idled for ~8 min. Dim red glow. I'm sure if I drove it the glow would be more pronounced. Shut down and flashed a tune with timing locked at 55 (as high as it would go) and idled for another 5 min. Dim red glow still present. Next step is a leakdown on #1 with the motor at TDC and see if the exhaust valves are closed or not.
Locked timing at 30 and idled for ~8 min. Dim red glow. I'm sure if I drove it the glow would be more pronounced. Shut down and flashed a tune with timing locked at 55 (as high as it would go) and idled for another 5 min. Dim red glow still present. Next step is a leakdown on #1 with the motor at TDC and see if the exhaust valves are closed or not.
That was what cured it. I have gone into a trial and error session and this is what worked. My next plan of attack was also checking exhaust valves but I did not have to do it.
BTW, what's your idle AFR? Just hook up an external wideband and check both banks. Forget about the narrowbands I don't trust them.
07-27-2015, 03:43 PM
Glowing Red Turbos/Manifolds/downpipes!
Now directly after a hit I could see this but we drove/cruised for a good ten minutes after making some low boost hits. Then we let it cool off and drove home (~30 min) without getting on it at all and parked in the dark garage and it was the same. 
