4l80e v glide swap on 800+whp cars
10-02-2015, 05:18 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
4l80e v glide swap on 800+whp cars
Ok contemplating the two and looking for feedback. I know the 4l80e may be a better street option but how much different would the two be? The glide is a little less parasitic right but I would have to run lower ratio gears not to run out of legs at the track. Price wise they will come out similar as the 4l80e I can use my stock z06 diff while the glide i will need taller gears. Goal is 8.99 or better. Not looking for full race car n low 8s or high 7s. That's too expensive lol. Your thoughts?
10-02-2015, 07:14 AM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
Lol that's who I've been speaking too. Wanted a owner pov. When I do the sums the prices are much for muchness cause of the new to fit the auto diff or gears into the glide setup but with a 4l80e I can leave the diff alone.
10-02-2015, 08:06 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
Seems like you wouldn't need near as much converter with the '80. Driving a really loose converter on the street would bother the hell out of me. Would you need a 5K+ rpm stall speed for the PG to have an advantage over the better gearing in the '80?
10-02-2015, 08:16 AM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Yeah I'm thinking the 80 with shorter gears may be less of a pain in the *** on the street and possibly even quicker over the 1/4 when you chasing high 8s?? Much quicker than that and I think you have to go glide
10-02-2015, 08:27 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
Street yersus track
I think on the street the 4 gears would be much better and would be worth it. On the track much less so. I guess you need to figure out how much street driving if any you want to do. PG - the high stall converter is not great and a 3.42 which would be the final drive with a PG is not enough (it is OK) if you do a lot of highway driving. With the 80 the final drive would be like a 2.62 or so which is a good highway gear. But it gets back to what are you going to be doing with the car is it 90% track and 10% street etc.
10-02-2015, 09:18 AM
#8
Drifting
If you're considering spending 20k on the transmission swap, you could slap a turbo kit or blower on the car and do more with less.
These cars are not nearly as fun to drive on the street with either automatic transmission. Additionally you will then be relegated to street or drag strip and would get embarrassed on a road course given the inclination.
These cars are not nearly as fun to drive on the street with either automatic transmission. Additionally you will then be relegated to street or drag strip and would get embarrassed on a road course given the inclination.
10-02-2015, 09:18 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
Two different animals but... For only 8.90s and lots of street use, the 4l80e would probably be the better option... Really depends on how much highway driving you will do.
However, you will go faster with the PG, it's much lighter, less parasitic loss by a good amount, only one gear change to make, they are bullet proof and no computer/harness needed. Also just about any race Trans shop can build a PG... Where as the 4l80 is still finicky to keep alive at 1000rwhp+...contrary to the internet trans shops advertising.
I would do the PG, 3.42 gears, 28" tires, custom converter and drive the crap out of it. A good combo for mid 8s, you can still drive it on the highway (70 mph will be around 3100 rpms) and you can bolt it in and forget about it... Unlike the 80e.
Now if do lots of highway trips, top speed racing etc etc, the 4l80e may be better.
FWIW, I recently road tripped my 71' across the country with a T400 (1:1 high gear like a PG), 3.36s and 28". I did 2700 miles in 7 days, running 70@3000 rpms and it did great, got 12 mpg and had no issues at all.... Matter in fact, my car has traveled 168k miles in its life without OD so.....you don't HAVE to have it..
However, you will go faster with the PG, it's much lighter, less parasitic loss by a good amount, only one gear change to make, they are bullet proof and no computer/harness needed. Also just about any race Trans shop can build a PG... Where as the 4l80 is still finicky to keep alive at 1000rwhp+...contrary to the internet trans shops advertising.
I would do the PG, 3.42 gears, 28" tires, custom converter and drive the crap out of it. A good combo for mid 8s, you can still drive it on the highway (70 mph will be around 3100 rpms) and you can bolt it in and forget about it... Unlike the 80e.
Now if do lots of highway trips, top speed racing etc etc, the 4l80e may be better.
FWIW, I recently road tripped my 71' across the country with a T400 (1:1 high gear like a PG), 3.36s and 28". I did 2700 miles in 7 days, running 70@3000 rpms and it did great, got 12 mpg and had no issues at all.... Matter in fact, my car has traveled 168k miles in its life without OD so.....you don't HAVE to have it..
10-02-2015, 09:24 AM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Two different animals but... For only 8.90s and lots of street use, the 4l80e would probably be the better option... Really depends on how much highway driving you will do.
However, you will go faster with the PG, it's much lighter, less parasitic loss by a good amount, only one gear change to make, they are bullet proof and no computer/harness needed. Also just about any race Trans shop can build a PG... Where as the 4l80 is still finicky to keep alive at 1000rwhp+...contrary to the internet trans shops advertising.
I would do the PG, 3.42 gears, 28" tires, custom converter and drive the crap out of it. A good combo for mid 8s, you can still drive it on the highway (70 mph will be around 3100 rpms) and you can bolt it in and forget about it... Unlike the 80e.
Now if do lots of highway trips, top speed racing etc etc, the 4l80e may be better.
FWIW, I recently road tripped my 71' across the country with a T400 (1:1 high gear like a PG), 3.36s and 28". I did 2700 miles in 7 days, running 70@3000 rpms and it did great, got 12 mpg and had no issues at all.... Matter in fact, my car has traveled 168k miles in its life without OD so.....you don't HAVE to have it..
However, you will go faster with the PG, it's much lighter, less parasitic loss by a good amount, only one gear change to make, they are bullet proof and no computer/harness needed. Also just about any race Trans shop can build a PG... Where as the 4l80 is still finicky to keep alive at 1000rwhp+...contrary to the internet trans shops advertising.
I would do the PG, 3.42 gears, 28" tires, custom converter and drive the crap out of it. A good combo for mid 8s, you can still drive it on the highway (70 mph will be around 3100 rpms) and you can bolt it in and forget about it... Unlike the 80e.
Now if do lots of highway trips, top speed racing etc etc, the 4l80e may be better.
FWIW, I recently road tripped my 71' across the country with a T400 (1:1 high gear like a PG), 3.36s and 28". I did 2700 miles in 7 days, running 70@3000 rpms and it did great, got 12 mpg and had no issues at all.... Matter in fact, my car has traveled 168k miles in its life without OD so.....you don't HAVE to have it..
10-02-2015, 10:01 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
Well hundreds of thousands of cars left GM with PGs and 3.08 gears, with engines that made 250 crank hp.....I'm sure your Vette will still take off fine... Getting the converter correct is the key. You'll want it fairly tight around town. The taller gearing (1.75) of the PG 1st gear is gonna want to make the converter slip more.... A good converter company like FTI or PTC can get the converter right for you, it usually takes a couple attempts tho.. (I'm on my 3rd custom converter). To get the car to leave hard with a PG is gonna need a converter that flashes to 5000 or so....that will be no problem with a good, custom spec converter.
Driving around town, obviously will require a bit more throttle input then with a stick trans or A6....but you will get used to it. If you need to jack rabbit a stop light, as soon as you give it 30-40% throttle, that converter will loosen up and it's gonna move out quick.
Really the only down side to a PG is highway rpms and lack of a lock up converter for efficiency, if you have enough power to pull the tall 1st gear.. (Which you do at 800rwhp).
Another option is the 4l60 swap...but it's not nearly as strong as either the 80e or PG.. It's basically a maintenance item. But it's much cheaper and less cutting then an 80e, it's lighter and consumes less power.. And has OD/lock up.. It's good ground between the 80e and PG...--just know they are prone to fail and really RPM is the only ones that can build them to somewhat last..and even then they require frequent rebuilds.
Driving around town, obviously will require a bit more throttle input then with a stick trans or A6....but you will get used to it. If you need to jack rabbit a stop light, as soon as you give it 30-40% throttle, that converter will loosen up and it's gonna move out quick.
Really the only down side to a PG is highway rpms and lack of a lock up converter for efficiency, if you have enough power to pull the tall 1st gear.. (Which you do at 800rwhp).
Another option is the 4l60 swap...but it's not nearly as strong as either the 80e or PG.. It's basically a maintenance item. But it's much cheaper and less cutting then an 80e, it's lighter and consumes less power.. And has OD/lock up.. It's good ground between the 80e and PG...--just know they are prone to fail and really RPM is the only ones that can build them to somewhat last..and even then they require frequent rebuilds.
10-02-2015, 10:11 AM
#12
Team Owner
Why would you need lower gears? I don't see how you would be going past 170mph or so in the 1/4. 1:1 high gear on a 28" tire is more than enough with the factory 3.42 gear.
80 does have a lock up converter which is very very nice.
80 does have a lock up converter which is very very nice.
10-02-2015, 11:02 AM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
Running 18s not 15s on the back at the moment for street duties.
10-02-2015, 12:32 PM
#14
trans
The torque tube remains the stock length and NO tunnel cutting is needed. Also leaves more room for the exhaust.
The softer first gear helps the traction situation.
The first gear helps with the life of the differential allot. This is a major concern when using a std C5/C6 or even C6Z diff. On a 9" its not as important especially depending on the gearset material.
Its the lightest of the options and can be made bullet proof.
bob
Last edited by Tact; 10-06-2015 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Removed contact phone number
10-02-2015, 12:41 PM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
Might be just a case of needing to jump in someone car with the glide already done and see how it behaves. Like the idea of leaving the stock ratio and 28 inch rears. I grew up in a decade of 3 spd autos n 3.7s n 4.11 gears on 26 inch tall tires so 3.42s on 26s or 28s will be more than comfortable
Last edited by croatbob; 10-02-2015 at 12:44 PM.
10-02-2015, 12:56 PM
#17
Team Owner
http://xse.com/leres/z06/calculator.html
28" tire with a 1:1 gear and 6500 gives 158mph. 7000 rpm gives 170mph. More than enough for 8 second 1/4 mile blast. Why limit to 6500?
Also 15" vs 18" wheel has ZERO to do with gearing so not even sure why you brought that up.
28" tire with a 1:1 gear and 6500 gives 158mph. 7000 rpm gives 170mph. More than enough for 8 second 1/4 mile blast. Why limit to 6500?
Also 15" vs 18" wheel has ZERO to do with gearing so not even sure why you brought that up.
10-02-2015, 01:07 PM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
What I mean was not running a 15 with a 28 inch tire but running an 18 with a 26" street radial on the street. Want to run on the street tire b4 going 15s on the back. Yeah found the calculator after I asked lol
10-02-2015, 04:30 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
You have to account for converter slip when calculating speeds in high gear, using a formula for a stick car or car with a locked converter are useless..
Some real world info for you..
My car runs 155 mph at 7143 rpms in high gear, 26.25" tires, 3.42, and the converter unlocked.
On 27.75" tires, it will run 162 mph at 7200 in high gear.
My converter is around 11% slip@150mph, the faster you go, the more efficient the converter becomes.
If your converter is tighter, you can probably make it to 168-170 mph spinning to 7200....but it likely won't leave hard.. This is where the lock up converter of the 4l80e becomes a huge benefit.
The other "fix" is to spin it higher then 7200...
Lots of these auto guys going high 170s in the 1/4 with unlocked converters are probably spinning to 8000 rpms...
Some real world info for you..
My car runs 155 mph at 7143 rpms in high gear, 26.25" tires, 3.42, and the converter unlocked.
On 27.75" tires, it will run 162 mph at 7200 in high gear.
My converter is around 11% slip@150mph, the faster you go, the more efficient the converter becomes.
If your converter is tighter, you can probably make it to 168-170 mph spinning to 7200....but it likely won't leave hard.. This is where the lock up converter of the 4l80e becomes a huge benefit.
The other "fix" is to spin it higher then 7200...
Lots of these auto guys going high 170s in the 1/4 with unlocked converters are probably spinning to 8000 rpms...
10-03-2015, 09:30 PM
#20
Pg
What all is involved in changing a C6 auto over to a glide. I have a 2010 GS A6 6l80 trans that is built and a PTC convertor now and I am looking into it since I have to upgrade the differential soon. I make 1036rwhp now and have the DSS shafts and stock diff and drive shaft. What would be a good guess on cost breakdown?