usmcpony

LME is suggesting I go with a mechanical cam with .690 lift and solid rollers. He says it's extremely streetable and will rev to 8000rpms. Will also make more power. From what I hear it's more of a headache adjusting the lifter. What's everyone opinions?

realcanuk

Seems to me like heading towards race car territory. For a street car I am not sure going to those extremes are really beneficial. Do I remember right that your car is a 6L80 ?

usmcpony

For now it is. Haven't decided yet. For now im just focusing on the motor.

realcanuk

Just asking because I don't think a 6L80, even a built one, will like that kind of rpm. I may be too conservative, but I would rather go lower rpm and have better chance of reliability for a street car. Not even sure the blower will get you there anyways.

usmcpony

Im not even sure I'll rev it out that far. I might upgrade my Supercharger as well. I just want to make sure I build this motor the best way possible. I want to get it right the first time.

realcanuk

"the best way" is not an all encompassing thing. The best way for what you want to do with it is key. I am sure if you openly discuss all the details with Bryan, he will steer you right, as he did me.
I would be surprised if knowing its a street car with a blower, that going over 7000 would even be a consideration.

I am sure some with more knowledge than me will chime in here soon. I am curious myself.

usmcpony

That's exactly what he recommended.

CI GS

IMHO, the single biggest myth regarding solid lifter cams is that they require constant lash adjustments. That might have applied to older flat tappet engines with lousy poly-locks, but nowadays there's some interesting "low-lash" solid roller cams on the market that, with a top shelf rocker system (which you would want anyway) are reportedly practically maintenance free.
I've had a solid cam in my 540 BBC boat for years and although I've checked the lash from time to time, I've have never had to reset the lash on it. Ditto for the ~315* duration /846" lift solid roller cam in my race car. I've made hundreds of passes and checked the lash several times over the years, but it has always been in spec.
The second biggest myth about solid roller lifter cams is that they only gain power up high. A properly spec'd solid roller will make more power and torque throughout the RPM range than a hydraulic.
One thing that I think contributes to longevity is using "HIPPO" (high pressure pin oiling) type roller lifters than have a small orifice in the bottom of the lifter that feeds pressurized oil to the pin/needle bearings. I have those in both my BBC motors.
If I ever do a built LS motor for the Vette, I think I would probably go with a low-lash solid roller, just for the hell of it.
Based on what you're doing, I'm pretty sure you're going to end up putting a 'glide or 4L80 in it anyway, because I can't see a 6L80 working for long at that power level.
Just my two cents...
Good luck with whichever way you decide to go.

usmcpony

LME told me I'd only have to adjust them maybe once a year. BES said I'd have to do it ever 1000 miles. I'm beating my head against a wall with this build lol.

SHovV

There are several testimonies on LS1Tech of people with low lash solid rollers and them not needing adjustments for thousands and thousands of miles.

The owner of Cam Motion has one in his LS3 C6 and has reported 12-15k miles with no adjustments needed, and no changes in lash.

I'll be going this route in my 440" build, and in fact had a complete setup already to go whwn I dropped my engine in. Never ran it though as I've decided to step up to a better top end. Setting a solid roller up is as easy as following the instructions and measuring pushrod length.

inspector12

I'll make a coment, not from experience with a solid roller as I've only worked on one solid roller LSX motor that I saw go into a car and run. I have helped others put them together and set the lash on a couple of them a few times. But ultimately not a ton of real world experience directly doing it. Old school taught me they were adjusted fairly regularly, but was mostly done on race cars looking for every single HP. I'm sure that solid rollers will make more power especially in the upper RPM ranges. But I want to mention that low lash solid roller isn't exactly a solid roller. It has @.020-.040" of compresion and so it is a Hydraulic lifter of sorts. The movement is meant to make them basicly maintence free type of solid roller basicly. I've been contimplating doing them in one of my current builds. I think they are a great product just don't know of a ton of ppl on the street going to them yet. On the flip side a properly set up hydraulic roller can spin as high as I'd like on my street car I shift at @7800 and have the rev limiter set at 8 or 8200rpms. Can't remember exactly off the top of my head. No signs of valve instability. Am I leaving some power on the table?? Maybe. Wouldn't know unless I tried to make the switch and I don't see the need yet. And I'm usuing stock LS7 rockers with a trunion upgrade. GL! I'd be curious of the results if you do go that route.

SHovV

What,or how are you refering to them having .020-.040 compression?

Are you talking about lash?

On my LS7 setup Cam Motion wanted zero (.000) cold lash, and .007-.010 hot lash. This is with an aluminum block and heads.

ajrothm

I think Inspector12 is thinking about short travel lifters, not low lash.

Low lash solid rollers are exactly that, very tight lash settings.... Like .001-.004 ranges.

Short Travel lifters like the Morel Sportsman and Comp STs are still hydraulic, only they run with the lifter nearly bottomed out and only .020-.030" of actual hydraulic range.

Two different animals.

On the street, I'd prefer short travels..

But honestly, in the LS platform, on a regularly driven street car, regular hydraulic lifters like the Morels (link bar) are a way better option. You get nearly the same rpm capability (7500-7800), way easier on springs, cams/lifters/push rods/rockers..

You really need shaft mount rockers on a solid roller LS setup and look how problematic they are by themselves. It's true you may not have to run the valve lash that often...but you will be changing springs, rockers a lot more often, and thus setting the valves anyway.. Not to mention the higher risk of lifter wheel/bearing failure..just not much point in it on a street car. Considering you can make 1500rwhp with a hyd roller and spin it to 7500, what else do you need? Unless it's a dedicated race setup, where you NEED that last 400-500 rpms to make it through the traps or something.. Or a MAX effort NA build trying to coax every last HP out of it. A SR will make more power across the board.

I think you are getting in way over where you'll want to be with this...

Do lots of research on solid roller stuff on LS platforms before you decide.

neverstop

all the guys here have more experience than i do so for whatever it's wroth: could solid rollers be better? maybe but a lot of guys out here running 1k whp or more on stock ls7 lifters with trunion upgrade so not sure the extra complications would be worth it? I think the simplest path to achieving your goals is usually the best one.

I'd make sure you're realistic with your goals also, just from what I've seen these cars seem to get exponentially more expensive, more complicated and less reliable once you get to about 1k whp. up to you if that extra work, time and money is worth the extra hp more above that

Unreal

Lots of money to fix a non issue.

inspector12

Alan's right I was getting them confused with the type of lifters. I don't think from my talks with a few engine builders that there is a lot of performance difference between the solid rollers and the limited travel lifters that I was talking about. Sorry I got another animal involved lol! But with that said it might be a better option for you if your still leaning towards the solid roller. GL!

usmcpony

How much more wear/stress do the solid rollers put on the engine?

ajrothm

It's not that the solid rollers put more wear on the engine, it's that the solid roller valve train by nature, is stressed a lot more itself. You run a LOT more spring pressure to maintain valve train stability, this additional spring pressure is what causes the greater stresses on the lifters, cam, valve springs, push rods....everything..even the rocker bosses in the heads are a lot more stressed and sometimes have issues.

The bearings in the roller lifters need to be inspected based on usage. Solid roller lifters are a maintenance item, not a "throw in and forget it" like a hyd roller. And on an LS, that requires pulling the heads to get the lifters out, which would be a PITA.

You need really thick push rods (7/16"), pushrod holes in the heads need to be clearanced, you'll have to run shaft mount rockers and those can create issues on their own..particularly in LS motors.

Ofcourse running springs with 250# on the seat and 500-600# open, springs are gonna need constant checking/replacement.

As I said, you can make more power across the range with a solid, definitively rev higher, but they are high maintenance, and maintenance is not just setting lash every couple years.... If you are not inspecting the hard parts regularly, you are sitting on a time bomb. Do you want to chew up a $20k engine because you didn't want to do an annual lifter inspection?

Don't let anyone down play you on the maintenance required to properly keep a solid roller alive on the street for a long period of time. Anyone tells you that they have ran one for years with no issues, likely puts few miles on it.

I have messed with solid roller big block stuff for years. I actually kept two sets of lifters, one in the motor, one fresh and ready...id swap them every year or 8-9k miles, then send the set I pulled out back to be rebuilt...almost everytime, they needed bearings, at least until the Isky EZ roll solids came out.

I just don't see the point of it on a street bound LS that has a light valve train and good geometry from the factory, easily spins 7k reliably and can make a TON of power.. For maybe an extra 30-40hp....just asking for headaches.


Now if I was building a 440", NA, 700+ hp engine, yes I would likely go solid roller....but I would anticipate the maintenance.

You really need to research this. LME wants you to make good power, reliably.. They aren't the ones having to pull the heads to get the lifters out every year. But it depends on how much you drive the car. 3-4K miles year, you won't have to touch it for a long time.

SHovV

I don't see a mild solid roller putting any more stress on an engine or the valve train components than a hydraulic setup would. Spring pressures are going roughly going to depend on the valves weights, cam lobe design and intended rpm you're wanting to turn. As I mentioned earlier, The owner of Cam Motion has reported 12-15k miles and hours in traffic without issues in his LS3 C6. There are also several solid roller setup running BTR's platinum springs and your typical 3/8 x .080 wall pushrod.

The Red Rum vette has an LSX 454, older ETP heads running all stainless valves, and about 290# / 800# of spring pressure and they're running 3/8 x .120 pushrods and have not logged any valve train instability. CMS silver 470+ ci solid roller is also running 3/8 x .120 pushrods, and have not noticed any valve train problems, but they're around 600# open and running .800+ lift.

It's all in setting it up correctly for your intended usage and goals. I wouldn't expect a solid roller setup to be set it and forget it, trouble free maintenance. You should expect to check things every so often. But I don't think it'll be the pain in the ***, constantly worrying about it in one way or the other like most people seem to think it is. Cam and valvetrain technology has come a long way. Materials are far better than they were in the 60's and 70's.

It seems a majority of people still think solid roller stuff is hard core drag race only that need to be torn down and inspected, or parts replaced after every pull, and that's just not the case anymore. I don't have a lot of experience with solid roller stuff besides what I setup on my own motor, and a few other old school chevy engines I worked on in the past. But I can tell you setting it up and measuring pushrod length, p/v clearance was no more complicated than setting up and measuring a hydraulic setup.

SquatchMachining

My thoughts exactly. Not to mention a hydraulic roller setup can spin 8K without issue as long as it is set up properly. Good lifters, stiff push rods, and light valves!