Supercharger Question
04-27-2016, 02:39 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Supercharger Question
What type of supercharger/brand produces the most usable power/torque in lower RPM range? Any +/- to this type? Car is LS3 MN6. TIA
Last edited by Red Devil; 04-27-2016 at 02:40 PM.
04-27-2016, 03:42 PM
#2
A Roots/Twin screw blower like a Magnuson top mount will give you instant boost and power and torque but are limited to HP limit since there are not a lot of options.
A centri blower like a A&A kit, ECS, or my preference Procharger since there are so many options to grow in to more power. Centri blowers will give you all mid to top of the RPM range HP from 500 rwhp - 1600+ rwhp. You also have to take in to consideration the belt set up, a 6/8/10 rib set up, a direct drive belty set up or not, etc.
Or go big and go turbo. Most efficient way to make big power and the most expensive to do right.
A centri blower like a A&A kit, ECS, or my preference Procharger since there are so many options to grow in to more power. Centri blowers will give you all mid to top of the RPM range HP from 500 rwhp - 1600+ rwhp. You also have to take in to consideration the belt set up, a 6/8/10 rib set up, a direct drive belty set up or not, etc.
Or go big and go turbo. Most efficient way to make big power and the most expensive to do right.
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Red Devil (04-27-2016)
04-27-2016, 10:01 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Most people are running the ECS or A&a kit. Mines sitting in my guest room waiting for install.
These cars already have traction problems down low stock, let alone with a PD blower putting the majority of its power down right away.
These cars already have traction problems down low stock, let alone with a PD blower putting the majority of its power down right away.
04-27-2016, 10:19 PM
#5
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St. Jude Donor '15
The magnuson heartbeat guys have been having some pretty nice results.. lot of torque down low. If that's what you want, that is what I would look at.
04-27-2016, 11:32 PM
#6
Platinum Supporting Vendor
Simply go through the gears in a "spirited" manner. You don't even have to have it pinned.
How often do you EVER see the tach drop below 3500 RPM or so? I'm guessing never,
Centrifugals just keep building power. PD blowers feel fast at really light throttle but are really disappointing when you nail it.
Even the new Z06, which is an amazing car, exhibits the same characteristics. I thought my '16 was really fast until I nailed it. What a letdown.
I now have an A&A YSi system on it and there is no comparison. Both have plenty of low end power (granted, you need to give it more throttle down low with the centrifugal) but the mid range and top end are not even in the same league.
How often do you EVER see the tach drop below 3500 RPM or so? I'm guessing never,
Centrifugals just keep building power. PD blowers feel fast at really light throttle but are really disappointing when you nail it.
Even the new Z06, which is an amazing car, exhibits the same characteristics. I thought my '16 was really fast until I nailed it. What a letdown.
I now have an A&A YSi system on it and there is no comparison. Both have plenty of low end power (granted, you need to give it more throttle down low with the centrifugal) but the mid range and top end are not even in the same league.
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Andy@AACorvette.com 805- 278 4107
04-28-2016, 08:50 AM
#8
I have a huge file of scrapings I have collected (when I went through the same as you). Here is a post that has some basic general info, with the OP name & info. Credited to him - NOT me...
_____________
Ok hereis my opinion on the different systems we have installed and the pro's andcon's of each for a C6 corvette
Centrifugal systems.
Pros in general: no hood required, linear power band, easy to make more downthe road, cheapest offering out there
Cons in general: stop light to stop light racing is not as fun as a pd blower,makes routine maintenance like belts a little more of a pain.
ECS: Pros: gives you a larger head unit out of the box so you have lots of roomto grow, restrictor plate is great at allowing you to make more low end tq byspinning the blower a little harder and restricting airflow in the upper rpm'sin terms of out of the box kit vs out of the box kit. Belt can be changed withthe headunit on the car. Can do the bov in loud or quiet format.
Cons: some of the stuff you don't see under the car is not as nice looking asthe A&A kit but functions flawlessly.
A&A: Pros: nice price point given the smaller head unit, installs easierthan the ECS kit imo.
Cons: head unit comes off for a belt change, not hard but adds time (this mightbe revised now) Small S-trim max's out extremely fast so just do a T-trim rightaway, when making significant power small bov has to be upgraded.
Procharger: Pros: Nice headunits.
Cons: Belt wrap is least desirable of all the kits, tensioner design failseasily, appearance wise imo is least desirable
PD blower kits middle price point
Pros in general: Crazy fun in a light street car, burnouts whenever you want,feels like a big block.
Cons in general: super high hp build limited, needs additional work to keepiat's in check if you like to 1/2 mile race
E-force: Pros: no hood needed, easy install, oem reliability, instant lowend which is a blast for a street car
Cons: horrible iat's compared to other's. when pushed the system has to haveupgraded heat exchanger, pump, and even an icebox. Lid is so tight that itcauses a lot of this plus very small heat exchanger doesn't help.
Magnuson: TVS 2300 Pros: Very good Iat control, can really be pushed to make800 rwhp w/ good gas. oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for astreet car
cons: requires a hood
Magnuson: Heartbeat Pros: no hood required, visually stunning imo, comes w/ avarimax pump, great iat control over other pd blower systems, big intercoolerbricks, big lines for flow.
Cons: No jackshaft so can't be pushed as hard as the standard TVS
Whipple: Pros: can make big power for a pd blower when pushed, very good iatcontrol, lines use an fittings, very well thought out and put together system
Cons: requires a hood, needs some cooling mods done if really pushed
Kenne bell: Pros: I see no pro's for a lsx car.
Cons: Worst iat's out of any pd blower car, it's because we don't have thevalley like a mustang for a big brick.
Turbo kits: Highest price point (for a quality one)
APS: if you can find one Pros: under the hood looks really nice and clean, castmanifolds, routine maintenance is just as easy as stock. Great tq and hp,adjustable power w/ a boost controller.
cons: very expensive install if paying someone, later service work if turboshave to be removed adds a lot of additional cost, limited on turbo sizes sosuper high hp cant be achieved.
TTIX: Pros: fantastic quality, love cast manifolds, no scavage pump needed,same above pros as aps
cons: same as APS
These are my opinions on all the offerings that we have installed on C5,6, 7corvettes. Some people may ask what I would buy for my own car and that shouldnot be used as a gauge for what to put on yours as your budget and goals mightbe different than mine. We sell all these companies except for kenne bell, aps,and edelbrock. Does this mean don't do them, no! It just means we have chosennot to sell them (aps is because they are out of the us market so I would if Icould lol) Any questions you may have feel free to pm me, email, or call theshop.
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Owner of AZ's premier LSX motorsports shop
www.cordesracing.com
www.facebook.com/cordesperformanceracing.com
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_____________
Ok hereis my opinion on the different systems we have installed and the pro's andcon's of each for a C6 corvette
Centrifugal systems.
Pros in general: no hood required, linear power band, easy to make more downthe road, cheapest offering out there
Cons in general: stop light to stop light racing is not as fun as a pd blower,makes routine maintenance like belts a little more of a pain.
ECS: Pros: gives you a larger head unit out of the box so you have lots of roomto grow, restrictor plate is great at allowing you to make more low end tq byspinning the blower a little harder and restricting airflow in the upper rpm'sin terms of out of the box kit vs out of the box kit. Belt can be changed withthe headunit on the car. Can do the bov in loud or quiet format.
Cons: some of the stuff you don't see under the car is not as nice looking asthe A&A kit but functions flawlessly.
A&A: Pros: nice price point given the smaller head unit, installs easierthan the ECS kit imo.
Cons: head unit comes off for a belt change, not hard but adds time (this mightbe revised now) Small S-trim max's out extremely fast so just do a T-trim rightaway, when making significant power small bov has to be upgraded.
Procharger: Pros: Nice headunits.
Cons: Belt wrap is least desirable of all the kits, tensioner design failseasily, appearance wise imo is least desirable
PD blower kits middle price point
Pros in general: Crazy fun in a light street car, burnouts whenever you want,feels like a big block.
Cons in general: super high hp build limited, needs additional work to keepiat's in check if you like to 1/2 mile race
E-force: Pros: no hood needed, easy install, oem reliability, instant lowend which is a blast for a street car
Cons: horrible iat's compared to other's. when pushed the system has to haveupgraded heat exchanger, pump, and even an icebox. Lid is so tight that itcauses a lot of this plus very small heat exchanger doesn't help.
Magnuson: TVS 2300 Pros: Very good Iat control, can really be pushed to make800 rwhp w/ good gas. oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for astreet car
cons: requires a hood
Magnuson: Heartbeat Pros: no hood required, visually stunning imo, comes w/ avarimax pump, great iat control over other pd blower systems, big intercoolerbricks, big lines for flow.
Cons: No jackshaft so can't be pushed as hard as the standard TVS
Whipple: Pros: can make big power for a pd blower when pushed, very good iatcontrol, lines use an fittings, very well thought out and put together system
Cons: requires a hood, needs some cooling mods done if really pushed
Kenne bell: Pros: I see no pro's for a lsx car.
Cons: Worst iat's out of any pd blower car, it's because we don't have thevalley like a mustang for a big brick.
Turbo kits: Highest price point (for a quality one)
APS: if you can find one Pros: under the hood looks really nice and clean, castmanifolds, routine maintenance is just as easy as stock. Great tq and hp,adjustable power w/ a boost controller.
cons: very expensive install if paying someone, later service work if turboshave to be removed adds a lot of additional cost, limited on turbo sizes sosuper high hp cant be achieved.
TTIX: Pros: fantastic quality, love cast manifolds, no scavage pump needed,same above pros as aps
cons: same as APS
These are my opinions on all the offerings that we have installed on C5,6, 7corvettes. Some people may ask what I would buy for my own car and that shouldnot be used as a gauge for what to put on yours as your budget and goals mightbe different than mine. We sell all these companies except for kenne bell, aps,and edelbrock. Does this mean don't do them, no! It just means we have chosennot to sell them (aps is because they are out of the us market so I would if Icould lol) Any questions you may have feel free to pm me, email, or call theshop.
__________________
Cordes Performance Racing aka "CPR"
Owner of AZ's premier LSX motorsports shop
www.cordesracing.com
www.facebook.com/cordesperformanceracing.com
joe@cordesperformanceracing.com
480-359-5914
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ls1wolf (05-04-2016)
04-28-2016, 09:50 AM
#9
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St. Jude Donor '15
Keep in mind A&A is now offering the "larger" size head unit in their base kits (I believe at no additional charge, but confirm with them to be sure), and they've added a billet tensioner that looks to be the nicest one out there
04-28-2016, 10:06 AM
#10
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As already answered, roots blowers will give the best low end TQ, but I agree with Andy that they seem a bit disappointing at full throttle. Also the ability to upgrade boost is not quit as easy on the engine if you do want to step it up later.
As for centrifugal's go, no other centrifugal kit offers the low end TQ that ours does by design. None!
We feel we built it right from the start so you do not have to come back time after time for expensive upgrades costing you more and more money each upgrade.
Since we made our C6 kit the only upgrade has been a new tensioner a few years ago simply because a better option came available that we did not have to machine as much and put so much time into. The older ones still worked correctly though so if you have that unless it wears out it does not need to be upgraded.
As the end user that would mean a lot to me, we hope it does to you too!
As for centrifugal's go, no other centrifugal kit offers the low end TQ that ours does by design. None!
We feel we built it right from the start so you do not have to come back time after time for expensive upgrades costing you more and more money each upgrade.
Since we made our C6 kit the only upgrade has been a new tensioner a few years ago simply because a better option came available that we did not have to machine as much and put so much time into. The older ones still worked correctly though so if you have that unless it wears out it does not need to be upgraded.
As the end user that would mean a lot to me, we hope it does to you too!
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04-28-2016, 12:19 PM
#12
Safety Car
Also, a newer air intake bridge that flows a bit more and installs easier!
Last edited by Mike's LS3; 04-28-2016 at 12:20 PM.
04-28-2016, 02:07 PM
#13
A&A has improved their C6 kit since that write up. Now offers easier belt changes and a better SC inlet. Si is still the base supercharger but a Ti is not a very expensive upgrade at the time of purchase and I would start there.
04-28-2016, 02:10 PM
#14
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St. Jude Donor '15
They've advertised that that is no longer the case actually
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1591137043
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1591137043
NEW STANDARD HEAD UNIT
Head units. There is a lot of controversy about head units. We use the Si Trim as the standard unit in our systems. The Si is truly the best choice for stock motor applications. Period. It is more efficient in the 600 RWHP range than the larger units.
While I don’t necessarily agree, I’m tired of hearing that other kits include the bigger head unit so theirs must be better. So we are going to offer the Ti Trim head units as a NO COST OPTION. So that argument in now out the window.
We’ll still suggest that the guy who is just going to bolt on the kit and not try to push the limits of their stock engines go with the Si.
Here is another note about head units. ALL self-contained head units including the Paxton 1500SL, Paxton Novi 2200SL, and the V3 Vortechs used by us, come with standard input and impeller bearings. If you plan on pushing it and overspinning it, even by a little, you absolutely should opt for the oil fed Si (V1 version with straight cut gears only) V1 Ti, V2 Ti or V7 Ysi head units.
We stock all of our head units in both black and polished finished. And I do mean STOCK. We keep a very close eye on sales and inventory. We try our best to keep all sizes and finishes (except V1 Si) on the shelf.
Head units. There is a lot of controversy about head units. We use the Si Trim as the standard unit in our systems. The Si is truly the best choice for stock motor applications. Period. It is more efficient in the 600 RWHP range than the larger units.
While I don’t necessarily agree, I’m tired of hearing that other kits include the bigger head unit so theirs must be better. So we are going to offer the Ti Trim head units as a NO COST OPTION. So that argument in now out the window.
We’ll still suggest that the guy who is just going to bolt on the kit and not try to push the limits of their stock engines go with the Si.
Here is another note about head units. ALL self-contained head units including the Paxton 1500SL, Paxton Novi 2200SL, and the V3 Vortechs used by us, come with standard input and impeller bearings. If you plan on pushing it and overspinning it, even by a little, you absolutely should opt for the oil fed Si (V1 version with straight cut gears only) V1 Ti, V2 Ti or V7 Ysi head units.
We stock all of our head units in both black and polished finished. And I do mean STOCK. We keep a very close eye on sales and inventory. We try our best to keep all sizes and finishes (except V1 Si) on the shelf.
04-28-2016, 02:22 PM
#15
They've advertised that that is no longer the case actually
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1591137043
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1591137043
04-28-2016, 03:20 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
I owned both, and while the TVS2300(ZR1) was a torque monster down low, Centri's is more fun on the street, 1 and 2 gear light up the tires like nothing anyway on both. I think the linear power on the centri is much more easier to drive and get tractions. so makes the down low torque a moot point! But for the most of it, is the endless battle with heatsoak for a PD blower!!! Overall centri is awesome, and the magnusson heartbeat is too. If you never push it for real and doesn't really care about top end and efficiency boost, but looking to some random quick acceleration, than PD's will makes happy.
04-28-2016, 03:59 PM
#17
I chose a Magnacharger 1900 on my DD 2015 Sierra. Works very well at 7psi for that application. I have a Vortech on my LS3 based C6 at 14 psi and that works great for that car. Each has their place.
04-29-2016, 01:21 PM
#18
Team Owner
People say they want low end, but they are rarely ever are WOT at low RPM. So the low end torque thng down low for daily driving becomes a matter of giving the car 40% pedal instead of 20%. To me, that is silly and not much of an advantage. If you are going to go WOT, you are going to be up in the RPM range. I've driven a bunch of PD cars now, and I just don't get it. It is just a matter of how much throttle to spin the tires, same as a centri, just can do it with less pedal.
05-04-2016, 10:14 AM
#19
Rass Claat Viper
I enjoyed this thread. I went with a PD (TVS1900) on my LSX equipped Chevelle because I wanted the big block feel in a muscle car.
My Corvette however will get a Centri for 1/2 mile events in Ocala, Fl.
My Corvette however will get a Centri for 1/2 mile events in Ocala, Fl.
03-25-2017, 11:52 AM
#20
True but....
Simply go through the gears in a "spirited" manner. You don't even have to have it pinned.
How often do you EVER see the tach drop below 3500 RPM or so? I'm guessing never,
Centrifugals just keep building power. PD blowers feel fast at really light throttle but are really disappointing when you nail it.
Even the new Z06, which is an amazing car, exhibits the same characteristics. I thought my '16 was really fast until I nailed it. What a letdown.
I now have an A&A YSi system on it and there is no comparison. Both have plenty of low end power (granted, you need to give it more throttle down low with the centrifugal) but the mid range and top end are not even in the same league.
How often do you EVER see the tach drop below 3500 RPM or so? I'm guessing never,
Centrifugals just keep building power. PD blowers feel fast at really light throttle but are really disappointing when you nail it.
Even the new Z06, which is an amazing car, exhibits the same characteristics. I thought my '16 was really fast until I nailed it. What a letdown.
I now have an A&A YSi system on it and there is no comparison. Both have plenty of low end power (granted, you need to give it more throttle down low with the centrifugal) but the mid range and top end are not even in the same league.
Last edited by locosmith; 03-25-2017 at 11:59 AM.