How to spin the ---- out of your e-force. Gentlemen, step inside.
06-23-2016, 10:07 PM
#1
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How to spin the ---- out of your e-force. Gentlemen, step inside.
So I’ve been waiting to post this build for about a year and now that I finally have everything I need I thought I’d share how to properly take this e force to the limit…
Its an ls3 6spd with an Edelbrock Eforce that will be taken to 14lbs.
Shooting for 650whp no cam no heads. NADA. All blower and tons of e85
Car already has kooks headers and corsa catback.
This is for all the centri guy’s that are on their high horsies..
It will Run full E85 all the time, I live in an area where it’s a hot climate so winter e70 is not a problem for me, its consistent year round.
The fuel department :
• I’m dropping the tanks and going with a Walboro e85 450 in tank…… F90000267 I believe is the part number for anyone interested in it. I also got all the miscellaneous items as well.. fuel lines, clamps, filter sock from Racetronix.
• Kenne bell BAP 40v version
• Racetronix Wiring Harness
• 1000cc Injectors
As for the cooling Department:
• Magnuson Heat exchanger Part #680100091
• Jabsco Cyclone water Pump Model no. 50840-0012 (Flows 30GPM.. should be a decent upgrade compared to the pump that the kit brings, especially in recovering the IAT’s a lot quicker due to more output of the pump.
• C5/C6 Moroso supercharger expansion ICE coolant tank (Manufacturer's Part Number: 63495) which holds about 3.5 quarts…(when compared to the **** box coolant tank that the stock kit brings it’s a hell of an upgrade) ….Plus I can stuff some major ice in this thing. Only drawback that will probably bother some people is that you have to relocate the battery to the back cubby, which is another little project in itself. I didn’t wanna run meth so that’s why I opted for this route.
• 2 fittings for the tank because the fittings it brings are too small
2x FCM 1515
2x FCM 2017(shoutout to realcanuk, got this from his build)
Blower Mods:
2.75 pulley
ATI 90 mm idler pulley
Upgraded Tensioner Bracket
Smaller belt (still don’t know which one to get probably buy a couple and test them)
*******This guy (link in the middle) made 602 to the tire with an AUTO, no cooling mods and no upgraded fuel pump just a bap, injectors and he was only on 10-11 lbs ..we will be using the same tuner by the way.
***** https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-upgrades.html
*******I know this blower is known for having the boost creep at the top, but hopefully with all the cooling mods, a sh*t ton of ice and a boat load of e85 that wont happen.
Attached some pics as well..
Let me know what you gentlemen think...
Its an ls3 6spd with an Edelbrock Eforce that will be taken to 14lbs.
Shooting for 650whp no cam no heads. NADA. All blower and tons of e85
Car already has kooks headers and corsa catback.
This is for all the centri guy’s that are on their high horsies..
It will Run full E85 all the time, I live in an area where it’s a hot climate so winter e70 is not a problem for me, its consistent year round.
The fuel department :
• I’m dropping the tanks and going with a Walboro e85 450 in tank…… F90000267 I believe is the part number for anyone interested in it. I also got all the miscellaneous items as well.. fuel lines, clamps, filter sock from Racetronix.
• Kenne bell BAP 40v version
• Racetronix Wiring Harness
• 1000cc Injectors
As for the cooling Department:
• Magnuson Heat exchanger Part #680100091
• Jabsco Cyclone water Pump Model no. 50840-0012 (Flows 30GPM.. should be a decent upgrade compared to the pump that the kit brings, especially in recovering the IAT’s a lot quicker due to more output of the pump.
• C5/C6 Moroso supercharger expansion ICE coolant tank (Manufacturer's Part Number: 63495) which holds about 3.5 quarts…(when compared to the **** box coolant tank that the stock kit brings it’s a hell of an upgrade) ….Plus I can stuff some major ice in this thing. Only drawback that will probably bother some people is that you have to relocate the battery to the back cubby, which is another little project in itself. I didn’t wanna run meth so that’s why I opted for this route.
• 2 fittings for the tank because the fittings it brings are too small
2x FCM 1515
2x FCM 2017(shoutout to realcanuk, got this from his build)
Blower Mods:
2.75 pulley
ATI 90 mm idler pulley
Upgraded Tensioner Bracket
Smaller belt (still don’t know which one to get probably buy a couple and test them)
*******This guy (link in the middle) made 602 to the tire with an AUTO, no cooling mods and no upgraded fuel pump just a bap, injectors and he was only on 10-11 lbs ..we will be using the same tuner by the way.
***** https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-upgrades.html
*******I know this blower is known for having the boost creep at the top, but hopefully with all the cooling mods, a sh*t ton of ice and a boat load of e85 that wont happen.
Attached some pics as well..
Let me know what you gentlemen think...
06-23-2016, 11:30 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Almost duplicate of what I did..... should get very decent results from this. Keep us posted.
You will still get some boost creep, but its not really a big issue.
You will still get some boost creep, but its not really a big issue.
Last edited by realcanuk; 06-23-2016 at 11:34 PM.
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darkknight91 (06-24-2016)
06-24-2016, 12:18 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
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Location: Ex DPRK, now just N of Medford, OR
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I'm NO expert... but have you looked at the flow map for that blower? seems like the efficiency goes straight to hell above a certain point. Don't know exactly where that point is relative to your build.
Good luck! Let us know how it does!
Good luck! Let us know how it does!
06-24-2016, 07:50 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
You might want to rethink that coolant pump a little. A low pressure centri style pump isn't going to pump a whole lot of coolant when you add restriction. 30 GPM through 3/4" plumbing will have a lot of restriction.
Here's a little bit of a test Lingenfelter did on intercooler pumps. Both of these were centrifugals.
The 20GPM and 55GPM pumps we tested are pumps that are commonly being used and sold as intercooler pumps so we felt we needed to test how these performed compared to the above pumps that we use on a fairly regular basis. When tested with very little restriction these pumps flowed fairly well and used little electrical current to do so. Once the restriction started to increase the flow of these pumps dropped significantly though. Both pumps, when installed in a stock ZL1 intercooler system, flowed less than the stock ZL1 pump and not much more than the Bosch pump. At higher differential pressures (outlet restrictions) even the Bosch pump flowed more as can be seen by the graph of pump flow vs differential pressure. In 2002 when we were developing and testing a turbo Ecotec engine in the NHRA Sport Compact series we had found similar results. The billet housing electric pump that we had purchased and installed in the vehicle that was supposed to be a high flow pump actually flowed less than the Bosch production pump we were using in the low boost, 500 HP supercharged customer street cars at the time. As we found out then, many pumps being sold in the marketplace are being flow rated with no pump restriction and that many of these pumps did not flow nearly as well when tested in an as installed configuration.
Do a search and you can find the entire test. It's an interesting read.
Here's a little bit of a test Lingenfelter did on intercooler pumps. Both of these were centrifugals.
The 20GPM and 55GPM pumps we tested are pumps that are commonly being used and sold as intercooler pumps so we felt we needed to test how these performed compared to the above pumps that we use on a fairly regular basis. When tested with very little restriction these pumps flowed fairly well and used little electrical current to do so. Once the restriction started to increase the flow of these pumps dropped significantly though. Both pumps, when installed in a stock ZL1 intercooler system, flowed less than the stock ZL1 pump and not much more than the Bosch pump. At higher differential pressures (outlet restrictions) even the Bosch pump flowed more as can be seen by the graph of pump flow vs differential pressure. In 2002 when we were developing and testing a turbo Ecotec engine in the NHRA Sport Compact series we had found similar results. The billet housing electric pump that we had purchased and installed in the vehicle that was supposed to be a high flow pump actually flowed less than the Bosch production pump we were using in the low boost, 500 HP supercharged customer street cars at the time. As we found out then, many pumps being sold in the marketplace are being flow rated with no pump restriction and that many of these pumps did not flow nearly as well when tested in an as installed configuration.
Do a search and you can find the entire test. It's an interesting read.
06-24-2016, 08:34 AM
#5
Advanced
Thread Starter
06-24-2016, 08:40 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
No sense in not even trying to see what it can do at least..
06-24-2016, 08:53 AM
#7
Advanced
Thread Starter
You might want to rethink that coolant pump a little. A low pressure centri style pump isn't going to pump a whole lot of coolant when you add restriction. 30 GPM through 3/4" plumbing will have a lot of restriction.
Here's a little bit of a test Lingenfelter did on intercooler pumps. Both of these were centrifugals.
The 20GPM and 55GPM pumps we tested are pumps that are commonly being used and sold as intercooler pumps so we felt we needed to test how these performed compared to the above pumps that we use on a fairly regular basis. When tested with very little restriction these pumps flowed fairly well and used little electrical current to do so. Once the restriction started to increase the flow of these pumps dropped significantly though. Both pumps, when installed in a stock ZL1 intercooler system, flowed less than the stock ZL1 pump and not much more than the Bosch pump. At higher differential pressures (outlet restrictions) even the Bosch pump flowed more as can be seen by the graph of pump flow vs differential pressure. In 2002 when we were developing and testing a turbo Ecotec engine in the NHRA Sport Compact series we had found similar results. The billet housing electric pump that we had purchased and installed in the vehicle that was supposed to be a high flow pump actually flowed less than the Bosch production pump we were using in the low boost, 500 HP supercharged customer street cars at the time. As we found out then, many pumps being sold in the marketplace are being flow rated with no pump restriction and that many of these pumps did not flow nearly as well when tested in an as installed configuration.
Do a search and you can find the entire test. It's an interesting read.
Here's a little bit of a test Lingenfelter did on intercooler pumps. Both of these were centrifugals.
The 20GPM and 55GPM pumps we tested are pumps that are commonly being used and sold as intercooler pumps so we felt we needed to test how these performed compared to the above pumps that we use on a fairly regular basis. When tested with very little restriction these pumps flowed fairly well and used little electrical current to do so. Once the restriction started to increase the flow of these pumps dropped significantly though. Both pumps, when installed in a stock ZL1 intercooler system, flowed less than the stock ZL1 pump and not much more than the Bosch pump. At higher differential pressures (outlet restrictions) even the Bosch pump flowed more as can be seen by the graph of pump flow vs differential pressure. In 2002 when we were developing and testing a turbo Ecotec engine in the NHRA Sport Compact series we had found similar results. The billet housing electric pump that we had purchased and installed in the vehicle that was supposed to be a high flow pump actually flowed less than the Bosch production pump we were using in the low boost, 500 HP supercharged customer street cars at the time. As we found out then, many pumps being sold in the marketplace are being flow rated with no pump restriction and that many of these pumps did not flow nearly as well when tested in an as installed configuration.
Do a search and you can find the entire test. It's an interesting read.
Yea I read that research a while back too, to be completely honest with the bigger expansion tank that holds a lot more water it will be a good match for that Jabsco pump...
Plus I mean if REALCANUK used it its gotta work,
most of my cooling department needs from his threads (except for running meth)..How hard would it be to mod the blower to utilize 1" hoses for the coolant system ? (hopefully i dont have to get new inlets for the hoses on the blower like the ZR1 guys)
06-24-2016, 09:57 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
It's probably pointless to try to add some 1" plumbing. The intercooler plumbing is all smaller as well as the heat exchanger. If you have 3/4" anywhere in the loop, it's going to be a choke point.
+ it's also pointless to argue with realcanuck's success on the pump choice. If he used it, it obviously worked well
+ it's also pointless to argue with realcanuck's success on the pump choice. If he used it, it obviously worked well
06-24-2016, 10:01 AM
#9
Advanced
Thread Starter
It's probably pointless to try to add some 1" plumbing. The intercooler plumbing is all smaller as well as the heat exchanger. If you have 3/4" anywhere in the loop, it's going to be a choke point.
+ it's also pointless to argue with realcanuck's success on the pump choice. If he used it, it obviously worked well
+ it's also pointless to argue with realcanuck's success on the pump choice. If he used it, it obviously worked well
Last edited by darkknight91; 06-24-2016 at 10:03 AM.
06-24-2016, 10:45 AM
#10
Melting Slicks
I consider 600 to 650 rwhp an entry level starting point for guys with an LS3 and centrifugal blower. You are going to be maxed out at 650 rw?
It seems like a lot of effort to make 650rw but I applaud anyone's effort to max out a combo.
What are your plans when complete with the build? Looking to have fun on the dyno, on the street or at the track?
06-24-2016, 10:50 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
If not looking to be the fastest, or a max effort build, that little eforce is great. Reliable, was a blast to drive, and more power than anyone needs on the street.
Was running 10.40s with stock engine, cam, and converter back then.
Was running 10.40s with stock engine, cam, and converter back then.
06-24-2016, 12:02 PM
#12
Advanced
Thread Starter
What kind of average mph can you log with the Cervelo up on the wall?
I consider 600 to 650 rwhp an entry level starting point for guys with an LS3 and centrifugal blower. You are going to be maxed out at 650 rw?
It seems like a lot of effort to make 650rw but I applaud anyone's effort to max out a combo.
What are your plans when complete with the build? Looking to have fun on the dyno, on the street or at the track?
I consider 600 to 650 rwhp an entry level starting point for guys with an LS3 and centrifugal blower. You are going to be maxed out at 650 rw?
It seems like a lot of effort to make 650rw but I applaud anyone's effort to max out a combo.
What are your plans when complete with the build? Looking to have fun on the dyno, on the street or at the track?
and yea 650whp for max effort for a blower compared to a centri is on the low side, but remember i haven't even opened the motor to do the cam or atleast port the heads i figure I can get another 75whp with a nice custom spec'd cam and little port action on the heads..
My ultimate goal is throw in LG's G9X2 cam maybe, supposedly there making stupid power with it, and the fact that there cam specs are secret just make me want it even more hahah
Then when i get bored, probably do a little 100 shot dry for third and fourth gear only..
06-24-2016, 12:03 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
was going to ask you, what belt should i use with the 2.75 pulley, and the 90mm idler pulley ( i have a stock size UD pulley) i know you had like an 8% or something like that....
06-24-2016, 07:07 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by darkknight91
was going to ask you, what belt should i use with the 2.75 pulley, and the 90mm idler pulley ( i have a stock size UD pulley) i know you had like an 8% or something like that....
10-28-2016, 08:55 AM
#16
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Bumpity Bump Bump Bump
After waiting quite some time for my wizard of a builder to clear some space in his shop, he finally gave me the green light to drop the car off.....
11-03-2016, 10:57 PM
#18
The expansion tank made a big difference in both cruise IATs (generally 2-4* above ambient
) and peak IATs (highest Ive seen since installing it was 126* at the top of a ~130mph blast) and the recovery time is positively rapid: I can do a run and the instant I lift off the pedal, the IAT starts dropping and within a 1/4 mile or so of coasting down, it drops back to a few degrees above ambient. I'm running distilled water and water wetter (since hell will probably freeze over before it does down here) in the system, which I believe helps as well.I haven't tried ice in it as yet, but I think that will make a difference too. I plan to use a couple of the cold freezer gel packs so that the coolant mixture doesn't get diluted.
11-04-2016, 08:46 AM
#19
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Nice! Looks very similar to what I did on my heartbeat setup. I kinda borrowed the idea from realcanuck, since he seems to be a pretty smart cookie.
The expansion tank made a big difference in both cruise IATs (generally 2-4* above ambient) and peak IATs (highest Ive seen since installing it was 126* at the top of a ~130mph blast) and the recovery time is positively rapid: I can do a run and the instant I lift off the pedal, the IAT starts dropping and within a 1/4 mile or so of coasting down, it drops back to a few degrees above ambient. I'm running distilled water and water wetter (since hell will probably freeze over before it does down here) in the system, which I believe helps as well.
I haven't tried ice in it as yet, but I think that will make a difference too. I plan to use a couple of the cold freezer gel packs so that the coolant mixture doesn't get diluted.
The expansion tank made a big difference in both cruise IATs (generally 2-4* above ambient
) and peak IATs (highest Ive seen since installing it was 126* at the top of a ~130mph blast) and the recovery time is positively rapid: I can do a run and the instant I lift off the pedal, the IAT starts dropping and within a 1/4 mile or so of coasting down, it drops back to a few degrees above ambient. I'm running distilled water and water wetter (since hell will probably freeze over before it does down here) in the system, which I believe helps as well.I haven't tried ice in it as yet, but I think that will make a difference too. I plan to use a couple of the cold freezer gel packs so that the coolant mixture doesn't get diluted.
damn nice little tank setup you got there !
Definitely should be thanking realcanuk for showing us the light to the land of reasonable IAT's haha but yeah that's the trick with these blowers just keeping temps nice and low btw how many lbs you on with the heartbeat ? pump/meth or e85 ?
Last edited by darkknight91; 11-04-2016 at 08:47 AM.
11-04-2016, 09:30 AM
#20
damn nice little tank setup you got there ! Definitely should be thanking realcanuk for showing us the light to the land of reasonable IAT's haha but yeah that's the trick with these blowers just keeping temps nice and low
btw how many lbs you on with the heartbeat ? pump/meth or e85 ?
Definitely should be thanking realcanuk for showing us the light to the land of reasonable IAT's haha but yeah that's the trick with these blowers just keeping temps nice and low btw how many lbs you on with the heartbeat ? pump/meth or e85 ?
BTw: did you cut off the lip on one side of the battery tray to make the tank sit flush in it? The tank is just slightly longer than the C6 battery tray. It's not necessary, but that's what I did. I also used some adhesive thermal insulation and plated the tank with that.
Last edited by CI GS; 11-04-2016 at 09:31 AM.
