Dude_man

Do a dudeman fuel system. Carson put his own twist on it, he has a excel sheet with all of the parts and part numbers.

schpenxel

I need to finish updating that list--It's fairly simple once it's done but a PITA to figure out all the right angles, etc. to make it fit. Using PTFE hose didn't help much.. that stuff doesn't flex very much

But I should have plenty of fuel now. Fuel pressure goes up 3-4psi when the second pump comes on

Dude_man

Braided or fragola push lock ftw

CI GS

That system that you guys have come up with is pretty damn smart. I would never have been brave enough to bore holes in my tank and thread it though. I've been thinking that it would be good if you could epoxy and smal block of, say 1/2" thick aluminium onto the area that you're going to drill and then drill through that and tap right through that into the tank.
I agree that $230 is a bit steep for the ECS block, but it is one hell of a nice piece, I have to say.
I also like the idea of running another -8 or -6 fuel supply hose forward and connecting it onto the rail, perhaps where the shrader valve goes in on the side of the fuel rail (I have the LS9 rails on my heartbeat setup), sort of like what Louis G did with a build I saw on here a little while back. I'm not sure how it would work like that though, without a dedicated return, and I'm too damn busy and otherwise lazy to mess with figuring out where this and that goes and what to buy. But if Carson and the Dude have it figured out, then I'm game. You're pretty smart dudes, way smarter than me for sure.
That's why I was going with the ECS, it's a simple kit where I didn't have to mess with thinking or cutting hose, etc. Now I'm trying to figure out what to do, before I blow my old junk up.
I need to get that fuel pressure sender and wire that into the Dashlogic too, because everyone with FI should be monitoring FP regularly, in my view.
I'll hit you guys up for the parts list when I'm ready.

schpenxel

It's really hard to beat the simplicity of ECS's stage 1 kit. And it comes with all the lines already made now, etc. And includes the fuel tank bulkhead thing that they charge out the nose for if you buy by itself.

SO, my point.... just depends on what you're going to do with it. My opinion is if you're going to run E85 or something similar you'd be better off with a full blown return system like I did, but if you just want to be sure you don't run out of fuel on your current setup I'd probably just do their stage 1 and be done with it.

You could piece together the parts and save some money but I have a feeling it wouldn't be worth the time/frustration, especially having to ship everything down to the island. I haven't added it up but I ended up overnight'ing a few small parts because I wanted to get it done before 1/2 mile and I'm sure it cost me more in the end than I've realized.

Thus the reason I haven't added it up

CI GS

Thanks bud!
That's my thinking on it too.
It really sucks having to ship everything overseas and then having to pay import tax on the cost of the parts plus shipping, and then if it's the wrong part that arrives, I have to fill out forms and wait to get a tax refund, etc.
I don't intend to do E85, although that would be nice, because we don't have any access to that down here. So it looks like an ECS Stage 1 is in my future, because this thread makes me a bit nervous about relying on a BAP.
I know what you mean with resisting the urge to add it all up. If I did that,
I would probably have an aneurism!

CI GS

I hear you on the push lock hose. Greatest thing since sliced bread. In fact, I like it so much, I somehow accidentally managed to recieve 40' of -12 hose the other day when I was redoing my HX setup.
Now I just need another race car to plumb, so I can use it up...

Woodstoc

I read a bit about the PLX prior to ordering a setup. Can you use the Bosch sensor that comes with it in place of one of our O2's? It appears that it has the ability to be a narrowband as well as a wideband.

I guess the question would be has anyone put it in place of one of the stock sensors, and wired it as both? One output to the ECM and one to your gauge of choice, in my case the Dashlogic.

Perhaps a stupid question, but I'm not real up on these.

schpenxel

NB and WB O2 sensors are totally different and incompatible with one another

PLX (and most WB controllers these days) do have a "simulated" narrowband output signal that you can connect to the ECM if you want. I don't like doing it because WB's are a lot slower than NB's and I always got weird AFR swings when I did it that way. I also had my wideband go out once which made the computer think my O2 sensor readings were lean, so it just kept adding fuel until the car would barely run. I pulled over and disconnected it to get home.

So, to me it's easier to just add an extra O2 bung and keep the wideband separate

Dude_man

And they're not always the same exactly voltage scaling. I would never put a simulated NB signal from wb into a factory computer

77vette05

On the subject of bap's failing. I have installed a KB bap after my first bap failed. Has anyone ran a wire to bypass the bap on a toggle switch, in case of a bap failure? I know its rare for a KB to fail. If the car dies, a flip of a switch would tell you if its the bap or car? Could mount the toggle switch in the car. I was thinking of doing this since winter is coming, just trying to get some feed back. Also how does the KB bap run just by splicing inline to the pump with no extra 12v power source? The other bap's take power from alternator/battery.

schpenxel

When mine failed it just blew fuses when it was turned "on". Changed fuse, stayed out of boost, made it home

Chiselchst

So I picked up the sensor, and a wiring harness. But is monitoring the rail pressure enough, or should the *effective* fuel pressure be used (pressure - boost)?
And if so, can a calc be made using the Dashlogic data?
TIA!

schpenxel

You can make it calculate anything you want

If you're using a boost referenced fuel system then I'd make it calculate injector tip fuel pressure. If not using a boost referenced system then I'd just use straight fuel presssure.

The point is to make it someththing you can use easily, so use whichever is going to be an easy flat number

Woodstoc

Just thought I would bring an update to the original post. After getting home from Ft Worth, I pulled the KB BAP out and sent it back to KB for inspection. They checked it out, and called me back and said there was nothing wrong with it. Said maybe it was a short in the Racetronic harness.

They sent it back to me (same one I could tell), and I pulled the wheel and wheel well and wired it back up, taking the stock wiring out of play. Checked out everything electrically, seemed fine, and started the car. The car ran.....WTH.

So now I have a mystery. Car died at speed, would not start with repeated tries, Dealer bypassed the KB back to stock, car ran fine, I reinstalled the KB and car runs.

Now another weird part. Prior to me losing the fuel system at speed, the car was gradually seeming to get worse over time at idle. A bit of bucking from time to time, especially when cold. I attributed this to the tune, but it did seem to be getting progressively worse.

Then the total loss came. While the car was wired back stock (Racetronix and KB out of the picture), the car ran really well, none of the idle issues, even cold. I was careful about really getting into it, but ran it into boost a bit from time to time passing and such.

Now that I have reinstalled the KB, and made sure I had good solid electrical connections, the idle issue has resurfaced...

Makes me want to yank the damn Racetronic harness and KB out of the picture because I need a reliable car to get back and forth everyweek to Ft. Worth and back to Houston....

Any ideas?

Ant-Man

Did you have any issues while without the BAP? Sounds like a sensor issue. Not sure if you are SD tuned or MAF tuned, but make sure everything is clean.

Woodstoc

No, none whatsoever without the BAP. I haven't had time to buy and install a AF sensor yet, so I took it easy without it, but the idle was solid even cold, and ran fine. So fine I was a bit worried about running lean, but wouldn't have done that unless I went into boost pretty heavy. Tuned with MAF, seems to be fine on that account.

KB said the BAP checked out, but I just don't see a Racetronix issue, I rang the wires out and not shorts unless it is intermittent, and that doesn't jive with the idle issue.

Blackonblacksls

I've had a rscetronix harness leave me stranded on the way to work once.

CI GS

That is bizarre. Maybe just disconnect the Racetronix and BAP and just drive it like that for a while (if you can do so without going WOT) to see if the problem is one of those. I can't see it being the harness, but who knows - maybe a bad relay or something? The BAP is the more likely culprit, I think. The idle issue is a stumper though, unless an internal short of some sort in the BAP was causing that somehow? These cars are so finicky with anything electrical. Hope that you troubleshoot it soon or better yet that it just goes away and never comes back.

CI GS

What happened? What was wrong with the harness?