ProZach

2008 C6 Manual with Edelbrock supercharger and some long tubes with a stick shift and 3.73.


Soooooo, I'm driving along for FIVE years without any issues until starter begins to crap out. Have a shop install the starter and a new red top battery and since then, it's truly been an expensive nightmare.

Guy says come on over the car is fixed. Asked me why is my car running rich? I'm like huh? He says yeah, since we installed the parts it's been doing that, just drive it and it'll clear up. May need your computer reset. I'm wondering huh? What do you mean I need my computer flashed? Wrong answer pal.

Since then, took vehicle to a tuner since my buddy died in a plane crash and I lost my handheld that had my tune in it from the factory Edelbrock kit.

Had a shop tune car, with a vacuum leak. And yes, he seriously did. Jackass...

Omg I'm tired of typing...Since, parts that's have been replaced due to SWAG.....Gonna do the short version and answer questions instead of writing boat loads of useless info.


Throttle body
Mass air flow
MSD coils
Repaired vacuum leak on blower
New tuner from Edelbrock tuned to a new PCM


Can't get the car to drive like before! WTF!!! IATs data shows me an issue, but since the mass air flow sensor has been bypassed and incorporated into the supplied MAP sensor that is from Edelbrock, I can't tell WTF is going on with my trims. Car won't take full throttle, hell half throttle at best without coughing and ****. Figured I'd ask youse guys.


Help! Me!
Thanks!

neverstop

any shop that knows what they are doing with vettes should be able to 100% fix your issue in like 1 hour. maybe 2. I say find a REAL shop and call it fixed.

The_Nigel

When they replaced the header the probably damaged the o2 sensor wiring and that's why it started to run rich. If it's still bad it could be commanding a lot of fuel and that could also cause it to have basically pegged positive fuel trims and the long term could be sticking at WOT causing it to dump fuel there. Resetting the battery would clear this up only momentarily.

That would be my initial guess, but never rule out the fact that sometimes sensors do go out and it's no one's fault it was just their time.

You really need to get it to a competent shop and I'm sure they will get your situation resolved.

schpenxel

Post a log or get a real shop to take care of it.

Where are you located?

Unreal

So when you bring a car in for a tune, is is expected they do a full service and check of the car before tuning? Are they suppose to check for boost/vacuum leaks? Check plug gap? Do a compression test/leak down? Etc?

A cars mechanical shape is up to the owner/builder before it gets to the tuner. Saying they tuned it with a vacuum leak and blaming them is one of the reasons a lot of good tuners don't tune for the public.

Now if shop/tuner is same place that built that car, I get that, but when you take it in for a tune, car should be in a shape that is ready for a tune. Unless you want a $1500 tune that includes a complete car check up with new plugs/wires/etc as part of the tune.

Cordes Performance Racing

agreed!!

mourat

I got tired of "tuning" cars. I would say 9 times out of 10, the cars had issues. Luckily, I have been around my fair share of setups, and can usually tell if something is off before I start tuning; However, this becomes increasingly annoying when half the time you're telling people that you've made a list of what's wrong and then fixed the issues, then finally tuned the car. They only pay you, or mainly thank you for the tune, and nothing else.

Pekka_Perkeles

So true.

I always make this clear to my customers beforehand; i.e. there is a high probability that your car will have issue(s) and you might need a second trip later...

Pekka_Perkeles

It gets really interesting when there are the owner, then the builder and then the tuner. And when problems arise.

Not forgetting awesome results from some other car with a bit similar setup...

"Fix it for me" is of course an option. Owner may not care what was the original problem (hw or tune).

Unreal

A lot of tuners I know send away 25-30% of cars when they show up because they don't want to be involved in obviously poorly put together cars.

If I tune for someone , it is very clear the car is tuned for the condition it shows up in. If they bring it with bad plugs, gapped wrong, leaks, belt slip, bad gas, etc, that is on them. You do the best you can in the time they are paying you for. I make it clear I expect the car to have all that sorted out, and if it doesn't it is on the owner.

If they are paying me $500 for a tune, they get a $500 tune, not a $2500+ full service of the car including checking over all their work.

Same reason one of the best tuners in town just charges by hour. Says it will be at least $500 but tunes get into the $2000-3000 range at times because owners bring cars with issues he has to sort out.

ProZach

OK, we'll let me set the stage. I work for GM, have for 12 years, and this "shop" y'all are referring to was vengeance racing in Atlanta. All you tuners out there, answer this, you tune a car with a vacuum from a hose and you mean to tell me you can't see that in your data? Bullshit. I'm the builder and owner. I can fix hardware all day, can't fix software.

CI GS

Man, what a rant! Worse yet, from a guy who goes by the handle "ProZach"!
Just trying to lighten the mood here.
Seriously though, OP, I get that you're mad as hell because the tuner didn't diagnose a hose that was leaking or not connected, but if you're the builder, you gotta own that dude. C'mon now. Do you think there's a PID for a vacuum leak, or what?
I have a small breather on one of my valve covers and a vacuum line on the other going to the intake of my blower, so technically that's a "vacuum leak'. And I have it tuned like that, by a damn good tuner, and it idles like a dream. Now, I'll bet that if I decided to plug that, my car would run rich as **** at idle. But I wouldn't and couldn't blame him for that, could I?

ProZach

Aren't there pids for fuel trim? Reason I'm asking, vacuum line right underneath intake behind throttle body was off when tuned. Fuel trims won't indicate a vacuum leak if you're having to pour fuel to it to compensate for the un-metered air? Unplug your hose and see what happens. Rich as **** at idle, reattach, fine at idle. That's why I'm wondering how a big *** shop like vengeance racing could have missed that. Maybe you can clarify...

Tech

Will Vengeance not touch up the tune now that you fixed your mechanical issue?

Unreal

You obviously have no clue how tuning works.

Just doing the mods/injectors/blower/etc fuel trims are going to be way off. The car needs to be brought in ready to tune, not ready to be gone over and inspected for issues.

Yes, after the car is tuned and fuel trims/maf/VE/etc are setup, if you pull a vacuum hose you maybe able to see that on the scanner, but if you bring in a fresh car, that is not tuned yet, its getting tuned to dial that in, in the shape it came in. You would adjust for that mechanical error in the tune. It isn't on vengeance or anyone else to fix your car before tuning it nor does the computer tell them about errors before tuning it.

ProZach

More to it than me bringing him a car to be tuned. Car had a tune in it for five years, told me we need to switch SCT to EFI live. If the vehicle is "tuned" should fire right up right? Well I didn't, had to enable fuel cutoff with pedal for car to start. I don't know tuning at all, but I know it all works, and it should have started right up after $1600 dollars. And to clarify, there has been no expense spared when it came to the quality of the parts and installation. But I figured out the issue since this post, and it's due to the fact that the Edelbrock tune is CARB legal and the long tubes are leaning the motor out and they won't adjust for it.

ProZach

I'm not sure. Tuning is a skill, and a crime at the same time.

ProZach

No I don't, and I'll be the first to tell you that. I have $1600 reasons why it should be running like a raped ape. And like posted earlier, this car didn't have a bunch of issues, apparently just a vacuum line was off. Honestly, I think the pcm was damaged during battery/starter issue. With a new pcm from GM and the Edelbrock tune, car starts up just fine.

Tech

I have no idea what you're trying to insinuate by calling it a crime. Do you think a place like Vengeance has tuners that rip people off?

Like Unreal said.. sometimes mechanical things are obvious. Sometimes they are not. Maybe the tuner should have picked up on it, but it wasn't on him to fix it. If they'll touch up the tune now that you've found the problem, I don't think you have much to bitch about.

ProZach

​​​​​​Im not trying to bash on tuners, just trying to comprehend why he didn't see it and I can see it clear as day with a MDI. I know I sound angry like Betty White, just tired of hearing that a tuner has "no responsibility". It's not about the money, it's educating the customer about yes or no to tune the vehicle. Sorry for the rants guys. I really appreciate the feedback. It's just I'm not your average guy with cars, so maybe I'm over thinking it. I understand tuners have a lot of liability, but wouldn't you wanna assess the vehicle before just diving right in? I'm gonna call Vengeance and talk with them now that I have spoken with Edelbrock. Sorry again fellas, just want my 600 horses back!!!
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