jxhunte

I'm contemplating purchasing HPTuners, Wideband Sensor and attempt tuning my C6 LS2 myself. I've had the Vette professionally tuned on a dynamometer but would like to be able to do this work myself if possible. I have read "Engine Management Advanced Tuning" by Greg Banish so I understand concepts but am no closer to the practical application of tuning now than before I read his book. To put cost of tuning myself in perspective, HPTuners is approximately $500, a good Wideband Sensor $200-$300 and a Basic Tuning School using HPTuners at $450. After investing approximately $1200 would I have the equipment and skills required to tune my Vette or would I just be armed and dangerous.

thegreenman

I went with EFILive and had the bung welded in last week for the wideband. I don't know enough to dangerous yet, but I think we both will be in the armed and dangerous area soon.

Since I don't know anything about tuning, I am still going to go to a tuner for my mods.

Mez

I purchased HP Tuners for my Christmas present. After further research, I bought a PXL WB02 sensor.

I also bought Greg Banish's book. Boy, was I lost at first. But I kept reading the book and joined the HP Tuners forum.

Using the scanner software which is a separate application from the PCM edit software, I started logging short trips in closed loop using the Narrow Band O2 sensor just to understand how to use the software. It was tough to learn at first. Not everything is explained. Like you have to learn to modify the config file to get all the log information. You have to add histograms. Right click here, there. You have to save the logs files separately from the config file or you loose them. What does all the LTFT and STFT lines mean, g/cyl, MAP, MAF, ETC, ECT, and new terminology.

After a good month at nights and weekends, I installed the WB02, put the PCM into open loop, and started to calibrate the VE table. I was real nervous to write the first file to the PCM.

I when through 3 full tanks of gas and made about 30 different tunes before I was happy with the VE Table. Then calibrated the MAF table. I then tackled the PE table, high octane spark table, knock sensor, and many others. I plan on having it Dyno tested, but it seems to have a lot more power and much better fuel economy.

I received a lot of help from TX Vette here in Austin who help explained how to put it into open loop and how to calibrate the VE Table.

siffert

In a word, No.
I bought that book and returned it. I didnt find it that useful. Figure on being armed and dangerous for awhile and I suggest you find yourself a "mentor" via e-mail or phone to guide you along your merry way. The HP forum board is also useful. btw-IMO, there are many who think they can tune and few that can. And no, not offering my services as guru to you.

DSteck

You don't need a class to teach you what to do... You just have to be attentive to what's happening, identify problems with the calibration, and develop a solution. If you can't figure out a solution, look for help. For the majority of tuning, either you get it... or you don't. Snooping around at all of the different parameters in the calibration can be helpful just to familiarize yourself with what's available to you.

thesubfloor

Excellent choice on deciding to go with a wideband (NGK is probably the best one for the money) but I would skip the Tuning School as I've seen it and it only covers the basics.

What I would suggest you do is what I did (and what Siffert also suggested) - find someone who knows what they're doing because it’s absolutely invaluable having someone who you can call or e-mail and go "Hey, what happens if I do this?" since it can save you from either making a dangerous mistake or having to go through hundreds of posts on the forum.

If you want to PM me with more specific questions, please feel free to do so because I always like helping other people get started with this.

Christopher

user_name

IMO it depends on what mods the car has. With a stock car you could simply follow 1 of the better online guides with good results. Add FI or a huge cam and I'll bet you have problems. It just depends...

Motorhead-47

"Online guides"....can you share a few links to these?

Mez

The big hurtle was figuring out where do I start. The software is not very friendly when you first install it. You are left on your own to figure out where to start. There is a help guide but many of the explanations are pretty cryptic. But its a fast learning curve and I was able to get up to speed relatively quickly.

Having someone to ask questions was a big help. They can look at the logs and tunes to see if you are on the right track or not. Like I said, how to operate HP Tuners Scan software and the Edit software was not intuitive all the time.

The HP Tuners forum did not answer my posts because they get a lot of messages saying "Hey, what do you think of my tune?" so the knowledgeable members tend to ignore the NBs. I found out its not a place where the experts give very specific, detailed and exact responses to questions if you are new. More of point you in the right direction which is not helpful if you just got the software.

I disagree about the Greg Banish book and found it valuable. While it does not take you thru a step-by-step process of tuning, it does provide the theory and the basic tuning concepts. There is a lot of ground to cover when you consider mods.

I wish someone would do a Tuning for Dummy book that does a step-by-step procedures for the newbies.

user_name

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4742

siffert

I totally disagree. Every question I ever had on the HP forums was completely answered to my satisfaction and the experts chimed in for me. I also found searching threads using key words of my questions or problems almost always sent me to a good clue or solution as well. I also found very little of "whaday think of my tune". Folks load tunes to use as examples or to better specify a problem area.

TurboLX

For me, it's because answering every single "please look at my huge log that's missing the information you really need anyway" thread would take up 200% of my available free time. Too many people just want to be spoon fed without doing the fundamental work right the first time and expect some magical solution from a single internet post. I'd rather see people learn the proper setup and measurement skills that will have them making good steady state calibation changes first.

You're right, it wasn't written as a "tuning guide for YOUR car." that book was written to explain what goes on in ALL ECUs. It would be impossible to write a single affordable book that walks users through every possible EFI programming system on every possible hardware combination. You need to take the lessons learned on one system and apply them to your hardware. The general process is the same for a Ford, GM, or Honda, and it's in the book. My classes go into a little more depth on the application of this process to a specific car or controller, but they follow the same process.

I'm working with HPT on possibly writing some basic how-to's for their site that will include video demos of exactly what tables you'll be adjusting. About three or four demos on things like injector setup, open loop MAF mapping, open loop VE mapping, and timing will answer about 95% of the "new guy" questions. In the mean time, I include this stuff in my basic class.

Craigster05

I've taken Greg's class and I can't recommend it enough. You MUST learn the basics and why things happen the way they do if you want to tune your car effectively. Once you do, all the parameters, tables, concepts tie themselves together and things make much more sense.

Joe_G

I had a one afternoon HP tuners get to learn it session with a friend, GTODoug who has a few years of experience, who got me and my 3 buds who chipped in on the cord a good basis - then, for me it was reading the HP Tuners forums and the "getting started" stickies there...after a while you "get it" and then you realize it's a very well done program that works very well.

Greg's book was also an excellent read and helped get me started.

I'd also recommend anyone new link up with someone who's got some experience to get them going, then scan and tune away. I personally find it a lot of fun.

Mez

Thanks. Greg can't possibly critique everyone's tune. I learned that pretty quick. I also learned he can't give detailed specific instructions because if some guy blows up a motor, he will be blamed.

I keep referring back to his book along with taking advice from someone who has hands on experience. The HP Tuners website has a lot of information but it takes time to find them. Conclusion: This is not something you will learn how to do in one day.


P.S. Do you want to look at my tune? (Kidding...)

jxhunte

Thanks for everyone's help and input. Greg Banish, I love your book and will continue to use as reference. I just ordered HPTuners from Ragin Racin (Supporting Vendor). Also, one of our Forum Members has offered to help me get started, providing me with the basics. I'm sure flying off to a basics class would help with the learning curve but I will first exhaust all tools available to me outside of the formal classroom. I will start with HPTuner and then decide on a Wideband. Again, thanks for everyone's help and input!