H/C Z06 Torque Management Questions
12-03-2014, 11:14 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
H/C Z06 Torque Management Questions
I've read a bunch of threads on this topic and can't seem to find consistent answers to my questions. I also looked through some tunes on the repository and don't see much consistency with these settings.
My car is mostly driven on the street, but will see some drag strip action.
From the research I did, it seems like I'm going to want to max out everything circled in red and green. Any opinions? What are these things doing by not having them maxed out? I've done some data logging and can't seem to find any ill effect of these things. I was expecting to find timing being pulled between shifts or something.
Lastly, what should I do with the powerhop settings circled in blue. I'm leaning toward disabling them all, but not really sure how each of them work. The tunes I looked through were a mixed bag. Some had these all disabled and others only had one or two disabled.
Car is a 2007 with manual trans.
Is there anything else in this tab I should consider modifying?
Thanks in advance for the help.
My car is mostly driven on the street, but will see some drag strip action.
From the research I did, it seems like I'm going to want to max out everything circled in red and green. Any opinions? What are these things doing by not having them maxed out? I've done some data logging and can't seem to find any ill effect of these things. I was expecting to find timing being pulled between shifts or something.
Lastly, what should I do with the powerhop settings circled in blue. I'm leaning toward disabling them all, but not really sure how each of them work. The tunes I looked through were a mixed bag. Some had these all disabled and others only had one or two disabled.
Car is a 2007 with manual trans.
Is there anything else in this tab I should consider modifying?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Last edited by rio95; 12-07-2014 at 07:39 PM.
12-07-2014, 10:18 AM
#2
I've read a bunch of threads on this topic and can't seem to find consistent answers to my questions. I also looked through some tunes on the repository and don't see much consistency with these settings.
My car is mostly driven on the street, but will see some drag strip action.
From the research I did, it seems like I'm going to want to max out everything circled in red and green. Any opinions? What are these things doing by not having them maxed out? I've done some data logging and can't seem to find any ill effect of these things. I was expecting to find timing being pulled between shifts or something.
Lastly, what should I do with the powerhop settings circled in blue. I'm leaning toward disabling them all, but not really sure how each of them work. The tunes I looked through were a mixed bag. Some had these all disabled and others only had one or two disabled.
Is there anything else in this tab I should consider modifying?
Thanks in advance for the help.
My car is mostly driven on the street, but will see some drag strip action.
From the research I did, it seems like I'm going to want to max out everything circled in red and green. Any opinions? What are these things doing by not having them maxed out? I've done some data logging and can't seem to find any ill effect of these things. I was expecting to find timing being pulled between shifts or something.
Lastly, what should I do with the powerhop settings circled in blue. I'm leaning toward disabling them all, but not really sure how each of them work. The tunes I looked through were a mixed bag. Some had these all disabled and others only had one or two disabled.
Is there anything else in this tab I should consider modifying?
Thanks in advance for the help.
hope this helps somehow
EDIT Power hop never did crap for my wheel hop at the track even being enabled so.....
Last edited by 383; 12-07-2014 at 10:20 AM.
12-07-2014, 06:53 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2005
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
1st of all is your car a manual or auto trans ? this will determine on what you need to do
Maxing out the TQ values only removes the TQ when the TC button is on----Not a safe thing to do---as TC can save your *** on a wet road--If you want to max out the TQ values----simply turn the TC OFF--it is annoying as every time you start the car it comes back on again--- but better than a crash---
If you have an automatic disabling the wheel hop and other TQ dedections can make your trans shift very violently and even break it----' 1st tell me what trans you have
Maxing out the TQ values only removes the TQ when the TC button is on----Not a safe thing to do---as TC can save your *** on a wet road--If you want to max out the TQ values----simply turn the TC OFF--it is annoying as every time you start the car it comes back on again--- but better than a crash---
If you have an automatic disabling the wheel hop and other TQ dedections can make your trans shift very violently and even break it----' 1st tell me what trans you have
12-07-2014, 07:43 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
1st of all is your car a manual or auto trans ? this will determine on what you need to do
Maxing out the TQ values only removes the TQ when the TC button is on----Not a safe thing to do---as TC can save your *** on a wet road--If you want to max out the TQ values----simply turn the TC OFF--it is annoying as every time you start the car it comes back on again--- but better than a crash---
If you have an automatic disabling the wheel hop and other TQ dedections can make your trans shift very violently and even break it----' 1st tell me what trans you have
Maxing out the TQ values only removes the TQ when the TC button is on----Not a safe thing to do---as TC can save your *** on a wet road--If you want to max out the TQ values----simply turn the TC OFF--it is annoying as every time you start the car it comes back on again--- but better than a crash---
If you have an automatic disabling the wheel hop and other TQ dedections can make your trans shift very violently and even break it----' 1st tell me what trans you have
I don't see any reason to screw with settings that are only on with traction control since I turn it completely off just about every time I get in my car, especially at the track. So does anything in here affect the car when TC is completely off? Maybe that's why I can't see anything strange happening in my logs.
12-07-2014, 07:52 PM
#5
1st of all is your car a manual or auto trans ? this will determine on what you need to do
Maxing out the TQ values only removes the TQ when the TC button is on----Not a safe thing to do---as TC can save your *** on a wet road--If you want to max out the TQ values----simply turn the TC OFF--it is annoying as every time you start the car it comes back on again--- but better than a crash---
If you have an automatic disabling the wheel hop and other TQ dedections can make your trans shift very violently and even break it----' 1st tell me what trans you have
Maxing out the TQ values only removes the TQ when the TC button is on----Not a safe thing to do---as TC can save your *** on a wet road--If you want to max out the TQ values----simply turn the TC OFF--it is annoying as every time you start the car it comes back on again--- but better than a crash---
If you have an automatic disabling the wheel hop and other TQ dedections can make your trans shift very violently and even break it----' 1st tell me what trans you have
12-08-2014, 07:00 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
12-09-2014, 12:05 AM
#7
My understanding is there is a difference in torque management and traction control. Torque management is on at all times, whether traction control is engaged or not. Maybe my understanding is incorrect, though.
12-10-2014, 12:14 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2005
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
Traction control prevents the tires from SPINNING all the time
TQ management reduces TQ during shifts or rapid changes in airflow
TC can be eliminated by turning the TC OFF
TQ mangmt is different---On a C6 it is more important and used more on an Auto trans
But on a manual trans it can kick in during shifts of rapid throttle launches on occasion
The E38 computer (C6) has many programs that do this and can reduce TQ via:
Spark timing
Fuel cut-off
throttle control
The worst offender seems to be the deductions in timing- on a manual-The ECM can remove up to 15* of timing--although just momentarily-- enough to slow your ET's down
all 3 timing--throttle and fuel CAN kick in but usually not on a manual--only timing
here is the list of the TQ reduction programs :
1 TQ reduction
2 Wheel hop TQ reduc.
3 Axle protection reduc.
4 Clunck reduction
5 Tip In TQ reduction
All 5 of these can control the TQ via spark fuel or throttle
It is more complicated than this but this is the basic explanation
TQ management reduces TQ during shifts or rapid changes in airflow
TC can be eliminated by turning the TC OFF
TQ mangmt is different---On a C6 it is more important and used more on an Auto trans
But on a manual trans it can kick in during shifts of rapid throttle launches on occasion
The E38 computer (C6) has many programs that do this and can reduce TQ via:
Spark timing
Fuel cut-off
throttle control
The worst offender seems to be the deductions in timing- on a manual-The ECM can remove up to 15* of timing--although just momentarily-- enough to slow your ET's down
all 3 timing--throttle and fuel CAN kick in but usually not on a manual--only timing
here is the list of the TQ reduction programs :
1 TQ reduction
2 Wheel hop TQ reduc.
3 Axle protection reduc.
4 Clunck reduction
5 Tip In TQ reduction
All 5 of these can control the TQ via spark fuel or throttle
It is more complicated than this but this is the basic explanation
12-10-2014, 09:38 AM
#9
Traction control prevents the tires from SPINNING all the time
TQ management reduces TQ during shifts or rapid changes in airflow
TC can be eliminated by turning the TC OFF
TQ mangmt is different---On a C6 it is more important and used more on an Auto trans
But on a manual trans it can kick in during shifts of rapid throttle launches on occasion
The E38 computer (C6) has many programs that do this and can reduce TQ via:
Spark timing
Fuel cut-off
throttle control
The worst offender seems to be the deductions in timing- on a manual-The ECM can remove up to 15* of timing--although just momentarily-- enough to slow your ET's down
all 3 timing--throttle and fuel CAN kick in but usually not on a manual--only timing
here is the list of the TQ reduction programs :
1 TQ reduction
2 Wheel hop TQ reduc.
3 Axle protection reduc.
4 Clunck reduction
5 Tip In TQ reduction
All 5 of these can control the TQ via spark fuel or throttle
It is more complicated than this but this is the basic explanation
TQ management reduces TQ during shifts or rapid changes in airflow
TC can be eliminated by turning the TC OFF
TQ mangmt is different---On a C6 it is more important and used more on an Auto trans
But on a manual trans it can kick in during shifts of rapid throttle launches on occasion
The E38 computer (C6) has many programs that do this and can reduce TQ via:
Spark timing
Fuel cut-off
throttle control
The worst offender seems to be the deductions in timing- on a manual-The ECM can remove up to 15* of timing--although just momentarily-- enough to slow your ET's down
all 3 timing--throttle and fuel CAN kick in but usually not on a manual--only timing
here is the list of the TQ reduction programs :
1 TQ reduction
2 Wheel hop TQ reduc.
3 Axle protection reduc.
4 Clunck reduction
5 Tip In TQ reduction
All 5 of these can control the TQ via spark fuel or throttle
It is more complicated than this but this is the basic explanation
12-11-2014, 12:44 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
12-11-2014, 11:33 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: CA.
Posts: 5,255
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
The only spark retard that will show up in logs is from knock retard-(pinging)
So the real only way to tell if the TQ management system is removing timing is to compare the " commanded timing " or what you are asking for in your tune VS the " actual timing " what the data logger shows what you are ending up with
Example : say you are asking for 24* timing in your tune at 4000 RPM---You have to then compare that to what the data logger says you are ending up with at 4000 RPM----But you have to take into consideration how many * are being subtracted by the IAT temp deducts and the ECT temp deducts
So if you command 25* and say the IAT deducts are 2* and the ECT deducts are 1* ---then you should have 22 ACTUAL timing
If you have less--then the ECM is subtracting timing via the TQ deducts--- ALSO----Most often on a hard launch the Burst Knock system will kick in and can remove up to 10*---in addition to the TQ timing deducts
On a slow gradual WOT blast the burst knock won't kick in--so to identify TQ timing deducts it's best to do gradual WOT runs----
PS I always eliminate burst knock in my tunes----only at WOT
to avoid P/T pinging--- and timing deducts on a hard launch
Complicated but basically check the commanded timing VS the actual is the only way to see what's happening---then try to figure out WHERE the deducts are coming from and eliminate them---
So the real only way to tell if the TQ management system is removing timing is to compare the " commanded timing " or what you are asking for in your tune VS the " actual timing " what the data logger shows what you are ending up with
Example : say you are asking for 24* timing in your tune at 4000 RPM---You have to then compare that to what the data logger says you are ending up with at 4000 RPM----But you have to take into consideration how many * are being subtracted by the IAT temp deducts and the ECT temp deducts
So if you command 25* and say the IAT deducts are 2* and the ECT deducts are 1* ---then you should have 22 ACTUAL timing
If you have less--then the ECM is subtracting timing via the TQ deducts--- ALSO----Most often on a hard launch the Burst Knock system will kick in and can remove up to 10*---in addition to the TQ timing deducts
On a slow gradual WOT blast the burst knock won't kick in--so to identify TQ timing deducts it's best to do gradual WOT runs----
PS I always eliminate burst knock in my tunes----only at WOT
to avoid P/T pinging--- and timing deducts on a hard launch
Complicated but basically check the commanded timing VS the actual is the only way to see what's happening---then try to figure out WHERE the deducts are coming from and eliminate them---
12-12-2014, 07:13 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
The only spark retard that will show up in logs is from knock retard-(pinging)
So the real only way to tell if the TQ management system is removing timing is to compare the " commanded timing " or what you are asking for in your tune VS the " actual timing " what the data logger shows what you are ending up with
Example : say you are asking for 24* timing in your tune at 4000 RPM---You have to then compare that to what the data logger says you are ending up with at 4000 RPM----But you have to take into consideration how many * are being subtracted by the IAT temp deducts and the ECT temp deducts
So if you command 25* and say the IAT deducts are 2* and the ECT deducts are 1* ---then you should have 22 ACTUAL timing
If you have less--then the ECM is subtracting timing via the TQ deducts--- ALSO----Most often on a hard launch the Burst Knock system will kick in and can remove up to 10*---in addition to the TQ timing deducts
On a slow gradual WOT blast the burst knock won't kick in--so to identify TQ timing deducts it's best to do gradual WOT runs----
PS I always eliminate burst knock in my tunes----only at WOT
to avoid P/T pinging--- and timing deducts on a hard launch
Complicated but basically check the commanded timing VS the actual is the only way to see what's happening---then try to figure out WHERE the deducts are coming from and eliminate them---
So the real only way to tell if the TQ management system is removing timing is to compare the " commanded timing " or what you are asking for in your tune VS the " actual timing " what the data logger shows what you are ending up with
Example : say you are asking for 24* timing in your tune at 4000 RPM---You have to then compare that to what the data logger says you are ending up with at 4000 RPM----But you have to take into consideration how many * are being subtracted by the IAT temp deducts and the ECT temp deducts
So if you command 25* and say the IAT deducts are 2* and the ECT deducts are 1* ---then you should have 22 ACTUAL timing
If you have less--then the ECM is subtracting timing via the TQ deducts--- ALSO----Most often on a hard launch the Burst Knock system will kick in and can remove up to 10*---in addition to the TQ timing deducts
On a slow gradual WOT blast the burst knock won't kick in--so to identify TQ timing deducts it's best to do gradual WOT runs----
PS I always eliminate burst knock in my tunes----only at WOT
to avoid P/T pinging--- and timing deducts on a hard launch
Complicated but basically check the commanded timing VS the actual is the only way to see what's happening---then try to figure out WHERE the deducts are coming from and eliminate them---
