05 MAF delete kit?
09-21-2015, 07:24 PM
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05 MAF delete kit?
Guys I am running speed density open loop, is there a kit that will delete the MAF. I need something to keep the IAT relocated.
09-22-2015, 10:25 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
A drill bit, tap and WT382 sensor?
09-28-2015, 07:26 PM
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
1st of all why are you running a SD tune ?? what mods do you have on your engine ??
If all you are after is to delete the false IAT readings in your ECM so you don't get any false timing deducts --you don't need a "kit" to do that all you need is for a tuner to DELETE or DESENSITIZE your IAT table in your tune--even if your IAT has been removed it still can be done---
PS The main reason most go speed density is because their engine has outgrown their MAF table which on a 2005 is 12000 HZ or approx. 450-500 RWHP--normally envolves boost---If your engine is below that threshold and you have a SD tune you risk drivability issues-There is NO HP advantage on a street car to use SD unless you have exceeded your MAF table---Remember that a SD tune does not ever compensate the fueling for altitude changes or correct LTFT trims at P/T--Best suited for a dedicated race car---
If all you are after is to delete the false IAT readings in your ECM so you don't get any false timing deducts --you don't need a "kit" to do that all you need is for a tuner to DELETE or DESENSITIZE your IAT table in your tune--even if your IAT has been removed it still can be done---
PS The main reason most go speed density is because their engine has outgrown their MAF table which on a 2005 is 12000 HZ or approx. 450-500 RWHP--normally envolves boost---If your engine is below that threshold and you have a SD tune you risk drivability issues-There is NO HP advantage on a street car to use SD unless you have exceeded your MAF table---Remember that a SD tune does not ever compensate the fueling for altitude changes or correct LTFT trims at P/T--Best suited for a dedicated race car---
09-28-2015, 07:41 PM
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1st of all why are you running a SD tune ?? what mods do you have on your engine ??
If all you are after is to delete the false IAT readings in your ECM so you don't get any false timing deducts --you don't need a "kit" to do that all you need is for a tuner to DELETE or DESENSITIZE your IAT table in your tune--even if your IAT has been removed it still can be done---
PS The main reason most go speed density is because their engine has outgrown their MAF table which on a 2005 is 12000 HZ or approx. 450-500 RWHP--normally envolves boost---If your engine is below that threshold and you have a SD tune you risk drivability issues-There is NO HP advantage on a street car to use SD unless you have exceeded your MAF table---Remember that a SD tune does not ever compensate the fueling for altitude changes or correct LTFT trims at P/T--Best suited for a dedicated race car---
If all you are after is to delete the false IAT readings in your ECM so you don't get any false timing deducts --you don't need a "kit" to do that all you need is for a tuner to DELETE or DESENSITIZE your IAT table in your tune--even if your IAT has been removed it still can be done---
PS The main reason most go speed density is because their engine has outgrown their MAF table which on a 2005 is 12000 HZ or approx. 450-500 RWHP--normally envolves boost---If your engine is below that threshold and you have a SD tune you risk drivability issues-There is NO HP advantage on a street car to use SD unless you have exceeded your MAF table---Remember that a SD tune does not ever compensate the fueling for altitude changes or correct LTFT trims at P/T--Best suited for a dedicated race car---
I have Heads 11.5.1 compression (PRC as Cast 225, RR 1.72 /Cam 231/243, .617/.623 /Intake port fast 102 w ported throttle body and Vararam CAI/Exhaust LT headers, loudmouth II.. 46lbs injectors , Pb 20% UD pulley, and the car is putting down 507 rwhp with 4.10 gear and mn6, the Maf is maxed out according to the tuner. he said the readings were all over the place and recommend SD or changing the MAF at the time my bill was enough so i said okay with the SD tune. I live in Virginia so I really do not see much of a altitude change and the car runs 10x better then it did when it was tune with MAF. The car is not a DD but more so a weekend warrior or toy car. I was looking to remove the MAF just to clean up the intake area. I am sure my tuner could do it but i was just looking for a little project to do in the garage.
09-28-2015, 07:48 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
1st of all why are you running a SD tune ?? what mods do you have on your engine ??
If all you are after is to delete the false IAT readings in your ECM so you don't get any false timing deducts --you don't need a "kit" to do that all you need is for a tuner to DELETE or DESENSITIZE your IAT table in your tune--even if your IAT has been removed it still can be done---
PS The main reason most go speed density is because their engine has outgrown their MAF table which on a 2005 is 12000 HZ or approx. 450-500 RWHP--normally envolves boost---If your engine is below that threshold and you have a SD tune you risk drivability issues-There is NO HP advantage on a street car to use SD unless you have exceeded your MAF table---Remember that a SD tune does not ever compensate the fueling for altitude changes or correct LTFT trims at P/T--Best suited for a dedicated race car---
If all you are after is to delete the false IAT readings in your ECM so you don't get any false timing deducts --you don't need a "kit" to do that all you need is for a tuner to DELETE or DESENSITIZE your IAT table in your tune--even if your IAT has been removed it still can be done---
PS The main reason most go speed density is because their engine has outgrown their MAF table which on a 2005 is 12000 HZ or approx. 450-500 RWHP--normally envolves boost---If your engine is below that threshold and you have a SD tune you risk drivability issues-There is NO HP advantage on a street car to use SD unless you have exceeded your MAF table---Remember that a SD tune does not ever compensate the fueling for altitude changes or correct LTFT trims at P/T--Best suited for a dedicated race car---
Fuel trims being enabled or disabled (closed loop / open loop) has nothing to do with being in SD mode or not. I run SD mode every day. Fuel trims are enabled.. longterm and short term.
SD or MAF are just two different ways of calculating airflow. Either can be used in closed loop.
Last edited by schpenxel; 09-28-2015 at 07:51 PM.
09-28-2015, 07:56 PM
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
HP numbers sound really high for a stocked cubed LS1---similar to my LS1 set-up only your cam is larger--
The MAF readings all over the place concerns me--the y should read steady no matter what--Let me ask---Did you r-locate the MAF from it's stock original position ??
That would make it read all over the map and incorrectly---
I have tuned LS engines with much more HP using he STOCK open loop /closed loop MAF system---
Regardless of that if the way t is running now s fine and all you want to do is to delete the IAT readings without a RE-TUNE---I know how to do that as well--
Send me a private message on here and I will show you how----
PS do you still have the 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF and IAT sensor there ??
The MAF readings all over the place concerns me--the y should read steady no matter what--Let me ask---Did you r-locate the MAF from it's stock original position ??
That would make it read all over the map and incorrectly---
I have tuned LS engines with much more HP using he STOCK open loop /closed loop MAF system---
Regardless of that if the way t is running now s fine and all you want to do is to delete the IAT readings without a RE-TUNE---I know how to do that as well--
Send me a private message on here and I will show you how----
PS do you still have the 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF and IAT sensor there ??
09-28-2015, 08:07 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
HP numbers sound really high for a stocked cubed LS1---similar to my LS1 set-up only your cam is larger--
The MAF readings all over the place concerns me--the y should read steady no matter what--Let me ask---Did you r-locate the MAF from it's stock original position ??
That would make it read all over the map and incorrectly---
I have tuned LS engines with much more HP using he STOCK open loop /closed loop MAF system---
Regardless of that if the way t is running now s fine and all you want to do is to delete the IAT readings without a RE-TUNE---I know how to do that as well--
Send me a private message on here and I will show you how----
PS do you still have the 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF and IAT sensor there ??
The MAF readings all over the place concerns me--the y should read steady no matter what--Let me ask---Did you r-locate the MAF from it's stock original position ??
That would make it read all over the map and incorrectly---
I have tuned LS engines with much more HP using he STOCK open loop /closed loop MAF system---
Regardless of that if the way t is running now s fine and all you want to do is to delete the IAT readings without a RE-TUNE---I know how to do that as well--
Send me a private message on here and I will show you how----
PS do you still have the 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF and IAT sensor there ??
Anyone can delete a few columns out of the IAT adder table.
09-28-2015, 09:57 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
I have Heads 11.5.1 compression (PRC as Cast 225, RR 1.72 /Cam 231/243, .617/.623 /Intake port fast 102 w ported throttle body and Vararam CAI/Exhaust LT headers, loudmouth II.. 46lbs injectors , Pb 20% UD pulley, and the car is putting down 507 rwhp with 4.10 gear and mn6, the Maf is maxed out according to the tuner. he said the readings were all over the place and recommend SD or changing the MAF at the time my bill was enough so i said okay with the SD tune. I live in Virginia so I really do not see much of a altitude change and the car runs 10x better then it did when it was tune with MAF. The car is not a DD but more so a weekend warrior or toy car. I was looking to remove the MAF just to clean up the intake area. I am sure my tuner could do it but i was just looking for a little project to do in the garage.
09-28-2015, 10:30 PM
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HP numbers sound really high for a stocked cubed LS1---similar to my LS1 set-up only your cam is larger--
The MAF readings all over the place concerns me--the y should read steady no matter what--Let me ask---Did you r-locate the MAF from it's stock original position ??
That would make it read all over the map and incorrectly---
I have tuned LS engines with much more HP using he STOCK open loop /closed loop MAF system---
Regardless of that if the way t is running now s fine and all you want to do is to delete the IAT readings without a RE-TUNE---I know how to do that as well--
Send me a private message on here and I will show you how----
PS do you still have the 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF and IAT sensor there ??
The MAF readings all over the place concerns me--the y should read steady no matter what--Let me ask---Did you r-locate the MAF from it's stock original position ??
That would make it read all over the map and incorrectly---
I have tuned LS engines with much more HP using he STOCK open loop /closed loop MAF system---
Regardless of that if the way t is running now s fine and all you want to do is to delete the IAT readings without a RE-TUNE---I know how to do that as well--
Send me a private message on here and I will show you how----
PS do you still have the 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF and IAT sensor there ??
I have an LS2 so its just a little bigger then LS1 I was dyno on 3 different dynos some read as low as 500 rwhp and as high as 516 rwhp last reading was 503,The MAF was in its factory location never moved but the honeycomb has been removed prior to me getting the car. What I would like to do is delete the MAF and keep the IAT so I assume I need non embedded iat and iat pin out of some sort. I want to run a solid piece of pipe for the bridger from throttle body to CAI just how they do with some superchargers on SD tunes. I need my IAT sensor from what I am told as I am running OLSD.
09-28-2015, 10:39 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
I have an LS2 so its just a little bigger then LS1 I was dyno on 3 different dynos some read as low as 500 rwhp and as high as 516 rwhp last reading was 503,The MAF was in its factory location never moved but the honeycomb has been removed prior to me getting the car. What I would like to do is delete the MAF and keep the IAT so I assume I need non embedded iat and iat pin out of some sort. I want to run a solid piece of pipe for the bridger from throttle body to CAI just how they do with some superchargers on SD tunes. I need my IAT sensor from what I am told as I am running OLSD.
You can either just not use the airflow portion of the MAF, and keep it in place and use the IAT that is built into it, or you can remove it entirely and use a separate IAT sensor
There are three main options for using a separate IAT sensor--one is using a borg warner WT382 style sensor. You can either have a bung welded on to the new intake tube and the sensor will screw in, or you can install the sensor in the intake manifold (Passenger side, right after throttle body there's a nice flat place that works great to drill/tap), or.. you can use a GTO style sensor which uses a rubber grommet. Drill a hole in your new intake pipe and pop it in.
There are two wires on the current MAF connector--they will be the same color and right beside each other . That's what the IAT connects to. You can either use a break out harness or cut the wires/run new wires to the new IAT sensor.
Regardless of what option is used--make sure you copy the IAT sensor curve out of a car that uses whatever sensor you go with.
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09-28-2015, 10:49 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
09-30-2015, 10:44 PM
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
If you're talking to me.. I have a supercharger, so needless to say, the MAF has been moved. It's more a turbulence issue than anything. A honeycomb to straighten out airflow prior to the MAF helps a lot, but it still runs better in SD. There are no negatives to SD to me, so I have no intentions of running a MAF again.
Anyone can delete a few columns out of the IAT adder table.
Anyone can delete a few columns out of the IAT adder table.
Any tuner with HP or EFILIVE cam massage your IAT table
However if you want to simply get rid of the IAT --there is a fix--
Isolate the 2 wires on your 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF/IAT sensors---
Go to Radio Shack a buy an OHM resistor ( they come in a pack of 5 and are like $1.99 for the pack) Radio Shack part # is 271-1124
These are a 4.7k OHM resistors--- Connect a resistor inline to the 2 wires that went to your IAT sensor----
This will make your !AT temperature reading read apprx 70* ALL THE TIME----
09-30-2015, 11:09 PM
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
These two statements are absolutely 100% wrong. You can run SD on a 100% stock car and it will be the same or smoother than the same car with a MAF tune. There is no turbulence to throw MAF airflow readings around on an SD tune. It doesn't matter what mods it has. SD is typically smoother, especially on larger cams, as it doesn't see airflow moving backwards unlike a MAF (i.e. reversion). SD just needs to know volumetric efficiency and air temp and airflow can be calculated from that.
Fuel trims being enabled or disabled (closed loop / open loop) has nothing to do with being in SD mode or not. I run SD mode every day. Fuel trims are enabled.. longterm and short term.
SD or MAF are just two different ways of calculating airflow. Either can be used in closed loop.
Fuel trims being enabled or disabled (closed loop / open loop) has nothing to do with being in SD mode or not. I run SD mode every day. Fuel trims are enabled.. longterm and short term.
SD or MAF are just two different ways of calculating airflow. Either can be used in closed loop.
An engine running "true speed density " DISABLES the MAF and the fuel trims---and runs 100% off of the VE table---
What you are running is NOT a true SD tune---
A stock engine running true SD will not compensate the fuel during P/T to achieve the stoich AFR of 14.68---The fueling is at the mercy of the VE tuning---So when changing altitudes--hot/cold days the fueling will never be 100% efficient unless you massage the VE table at every day's changing air density---
I' ve never heard of anyone running a SD tune with the fuel trims enabled---- Where does the ECM make the fuel corrections if the MAF is turned OFF--All it is using for fueling is the VE table and it does NOT self adjust !!---
Seems like you are running more like an OLSD tune---where the fueling is commanded by both the VE table and the Open Loop table normal-----
I would guess your P/T fuel is no where near 14.68 unless you have your own HP or EFILIVE software and have spend hours and hours with a wideband getting it correct for your home only location
09-30-2015, 11:25 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
It's scary how wrong you are.
09-30-2015, 11:25 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
Well now that I know more about your engine especially having boost then yes you are someone who can benefit from a SD tune--
Any tuner with HP or EFILIVE cam massage your IAT table
However if you want to simply get rid of the IAT --there is a fix--
Isolate the 2 wires on your 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF/IAT sensors---
Go to Radio Shack a buy an OHM resistor ( they come in a pack of 5 and are like $1.99 for the pack) Radio Shack part # is 271-1124
These are a 4.7k OHM resistors--- Connect a resistor inline to the 2 wires that went to your IAT sensor----
This will make your !AT temperature reading read apprx 70* ALL THE TIME----
Any tuner with HP or EFILIVE cam massage your IAT table
However if you want to simply get rid of the IAT --there is a fix--
Isolate the 2 wires on your 5 wire pigtail that originally went to the MAF/IAT sensors---
Go to Radio Shack a buy an OHM resistor ( they come in a pack of 5 and are like $1.99 for the pack) Radio Shack part # is 271-1124
These are a 4.7k OHM resistors--- Connect a resistor inline to the 2 wires that went to your IAT sensor----
This will make your !AT temperature reading read apprx 70* ALL THE TIME----
10-01-2015, 11:41 AM
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St. Jude Donor '15
And I would bet large piles of cash that both of you have fuel trims enabled, exactly the same as me. i.e. CLOSED LOOP. Not open loop.
I'm not getting into a pissing contest over this--SD vs. MAF only defines how AIRFLOW is calculated.
Open loop vs. closed loop controls FUELING corrections. Two entirely different (and independent) things. You can have open loop or closed loop for fueling corrections, and airflow can be calculated via MAF, SD or a combination of both. You do not need a MAF for fuel corrections (i.e. "Closed loop") to be enabled.
That would be like saying you need a tire pressure sensor in order for your fuel gauge to work. It's just plain wrong.
The fact that someone that CHARGES people money for tuning doesn't know that should scare the beejesus out of everyone.
I'm not getting into a pissing contest over this--SD vs. MAF only defines how AIRFLOW is calculated.
Open loop vs. closed loop controls FUELING corrections. Two entirely different (and independent) things. You can have open loop or closed loop for fueling corrections, and airflow can be calculated via MAF, SD or a combination of both. You do not need a MAF for fuel corrections (i.e. "Closed loop") to be enabled.
That would be like saying you need a tire pressure sensor in order for your fuel gauge to work. It's just plain wrong.
The fact that someone that CHARGES people money for tuning doesn't know that should scare the beejesus out of everyone.
Last edited by schpenxel; 10-01-2015 at 11:44 AM.
