Reduced Engine Power 30 miles after tune
04-18-2016, 04:06 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Reduced Engine Power 30 miles after tune
This is in my C5 Z06 but I have pretty much a C6 setup "Kind of"...
Question, Just recently had my Z06 retuned. Quick run down, Its a forged cammed LS7 with a LS3 topend with a ported intake and TB and a RPM auto swap. Took it over to a very known local shop here to have it tuned on March 11th, got it back the 16th. They decided to scrap my 100mm MAF because they said i was getting inconsistent fuel trims at idle and low rpm. So they proposed a SD tune on the car. We went ahead with it. Well just this past saturday "the 2nd time I have driven it because of weather" I did 1 WOT pull and the car instantly went into Reduced engine Power mode. Limped it back to the garage, Pulled a bunch of codes. So i decided to clear everything and run it again then check codes because I wasnt sure what was current and old. So it drove fine cruising "kind of" because at 1 point it held 30mph @ 1500rpm for like a mile without me touching the pedal, but as soon as I went WOT through 2 gears it did it again. Pulled the codes and I got a P0103 and a P1516, There was also another code but that came up Reduced engine power code. I would assume this is a tuning problem on the shops end. Contacted the shop and the guy was very rude about it asking what proof do I have that its a tune issue and his tuner has done 15K cars blah blah blah. The car ran fine up until the tune they did, I asked if they would tow it to the shop and he said for me to handle the tow. I got a little hot, he says he has 35 cars in the shop waiting and he is doing me a favor by bringing it back to look at it. This was a shock to me after the money I just spent. we both got heated with each other, I said who will reimburse me for the tow because this is not my fault. He said if it turns out to be a tune issue then they would, But if it comes back something mechanical "All hell is gonna break loose" basically insinuating that its not there tune problem and they want to rub it in my face or some ****. Thats the way I took it. I told him I do all my own wrenching but dont tune and I know the car in and out and its definitely a tuning issue. I also said I would like to be present while they diagnose it, He refused to allow me to be in the shop which scares me. They can do anything to pass the blame that way.
But does this seem to be a tune issue? I would think so.... Im considering eating the money I spent there and going elsewhere because of the way I was spoke to. I wanted to get in my truck and strangle the kid lol....
FYI, I contacted them a day after and thought my idle was high because it was @ 1050-1100 and would roll on @ 10mph in traffic, They said that is normal for my 3200 converter because anything less would cause it to buck and that they set it for 975 and my gauge was probably off. I thought that was weird because I idled at 850 before with no issue...
Question, Just recently had my Z06 retuned. Quick run down, Its a forged cammed LS7 with a LS3 topend with a ported intake and TB and a RPM auto swap. Took it over to a very known local shop here to have it tuned on March 11th, got it back the 16th. They decided to scrap my 100mm MAF because they said i was getting inconsistent fuel trims at idle and low rpm. So they proposed a SD tune on the car. We went ahead with it. Well just this past saturday "the 2nd time I have driven it because of weather" I did 1 WOT pull and the car instantly went into Reduced engine Power mode. Limped it back to the garage, Pulled a bunch of codes. So i decided to clear everything and run it again then check codes because I wasnt sure what was current and old. So it drove fine cruising "kind of" because at 1 point it held 30mph @ 1500rpm for like a mile without me touching the pedal, but as soon as I went WOT through 2 gears it did it again. Pulled the codes and I got a P0103 and a P1516, There was also another code but that came up Reduced engine power code. I would assume this is a tuning problem on the shops end. Contacted the shop and the guy was very rude about it asking what proof do I have that its a tune issue and his tuner has done 15K cars blah blah blah. The car ran fine up until the tune they did, I asked if they would tow it to the shop and he said for me to handle the tow. I got a little hot, he says he has 35 cars in the shop waiting and he is doing me a favor by bringing it back to look at it. This was a shock to me after the money I just spent. we both got heated with each other, I said who will reimburse me for the tow because this is not my fault. He said if it turns out to be a tune issue then they would, But if it comes back something mechanical "All hell is gonna break loose" basically insinuating that its not there tune problem and they want to rub it in my face or some ****. Thats the way I took it. I told him I do all my own wrenching but dont tune and I know the car in and out and its definitely a tuning issue. I also said I would like to be present while they diagnose it, He refused to allow me to be in the shop which scares me. They can do anything to pass the blame that way.
But does this seem to be a tune issue? I would think so.... Im considering eating the money I spent there and going elsewhere because of the way I was spoke to. I wanted to get in my truck and strangle the kid lol....
FYI, I contacted them a day after and thought my idle was high because it was @ 1050-1100 and would roll on @ 10mph in traffic, They said that is normal for my 3200 converter because anything less would cause it to buck and that they set it for 975 and my gauge was probably off. I thought that was weird because I idled at 850 before with no issue...
04-18-2016, 05:21 PM
#2
Drifting
Thread Starter
before reduced power
2 mins later after wot
This was after the 1st time it happened, I didnt record the second time. Start vid @ 1:00 if interested to see... Thanks
2 mins later after wot
This was after the 1st time it happened, I didnt record the second time. Start vid @ 1:00 if interested to see... Thanks
04-19-2016, 12:28 AM
#3
Safety Car
From what I've read, p1516 could be an actual problem with a throttle body (especially on a c5), but p0103 will be there with an SD tune because you should always be over the maf fail limit to remain in SD.
Usually the light is simply turned off for p0103.
I'd start with a different known good throttle body before taking it back in.
Usually the light is simply turned off for p0103.
I'd start with a different known good throttle body before taking it back in.
04-19-2016, 01:44 PM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
The P1516 may very well be a old code, The first initial time it did it I had a H at the end which means its a old code that wasnt cleared. If there is a C after the code that means its current. I would have to clear everything again and replicate the Reduced engine power and check codes once more...
Also my motor is a Forged/cammed LS7 with P&P L92 heads a Rick crawford ported LS3 intake and a Rick crawford Ported Silver blade LS3 TB... Now, I did have a LS6 Valley cover on the car before with a catch can/breather configuration with both fresh air barbs on the valve covers blocked and the breather was looped into a 90 elbow tapped into my oil cap. They said I had a Vac leak and changed my LS6 valley cover to a LS3 style, They scrapped my catch can/breather, put a normal oil cap back on and routed a hose from the driver side rear valve cover port and a hose from the passenger side front valve cover port into my airbridge where they drilled 2 holde and threaded barb fitting in. This is between my TB and MAF. I still have my MAF on because of my IAT...
I wonder if they forgot to do something with the MAF... Im waiting on this other tuner to call me back so we can set something up...
Also my motor is a Forged/cammed LS7 with P&P L92 heads a Rick crawford ported LS3 intake and a Rick crawford Ported Silver blade LS3 TB... Now, I did have a LS6 Valley cover on the car before with a catch can/breather configuration with both fresh air barbs on the valve covers blocked and the breather was looped into a 90 elbow tapped into my oil cap. They said I had a Vac leak and changed my LS6 valley cover to a LS3 style, They scrapped my catch can/breather, put a normal oil cap back on and routed a hose from the driver side rear valve cover port and a hose from the passenger side front valve cover port into my airbridge where they drilled 2 holde and threaded barb fitting in. This is between my TB and MAF. I still have my MAF on because of my IAT...
I wonder if they forgot to do something with the MAF... Im waiting on this other tuner to call me back so we can set something up...
05-01-2016, 10:37 AM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
05-05-2016, 08:51 AM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
Long read but I'll just copy and paste from a discussion on a friends FB post...
So to make clear what happened from start to current. Had setup a tune appointment setup back in January "Before the tax return spending frenzy set in". We set it up for March 11th giving weather a chance to break. I put in for a vacation day with the assumption that I was going to chill around there, BS and check it out. Guy there calls me @ 4:30 PM March 10th telling me he has bad news and wants to bump my appointment because they have a E85 car they want to tune, "crapy because i set this up in jan and this is Not my problem but I brushed it off" Says maybe they can get to it around 2:30. I told him that sucks I was anticipating hanging around and checking it out. He cops a bit of a cocky response saying "well its not like you can come in the back, but you can sit in the waiting area. I said whatever and dropped it off @ 9 and had a buddy roll with to give me a ride. Calls me in the afternoon and tell me they found that my 100mm MAF was inconsistent @ idle and I had a PCV vac leak. Said they would take care of it and wanted to go SD but they wouldn't be done until following week. I obliged, I said that's fine. Go and pick up car March 16th. Making small talk with Guy who I was dealing with he asks why I decided to down my CR on the LS7 from his claimed factory 11.5:1 to my 11.25:1, confused looking at him we argued about stock compression for like 10 minutes. Told him factory is 11.0:1 he says no he does this all the time blah blah blah. Looks it up and says he doesn't know what he was thinking. Pointless conversation but stupid none the less. Anyways, I instantly noticed my car idled oddly high, 1050-1100. I asked him and he claimed that Jim set it @ 975 and my tach was off, "I think I know my car". He tells me it has to be like that or it will surge!!!??? GTFO, I told him it was set lower before and never bucked, he says impossible! Yea okay, so I said I'll drive it and get back to him.
So I drive it home in traffic and I notice the car rolls on @ 15mph which prompts me to ride my brakes in traffic... "flag 1 something is off".... then I notice when I get up to speed 30mph car basically never idles down and holds a cruise control speed until you hit the brake.... "flag 2 something is off"... Send him a email later that night explaining said issues. Get a response email March 17th saying if I'm not happy he will have to reschedule another appointment. I said crap weather is coming up and we will play by ear. Car sat for 2.5 weeks because of that little late March early April snow. 2 weekends ago I take the car out after picking it up, I do 1 quick little 1 gear blast and boom, Reduced Engine Power... Check codes and get P0103 which is correctly to be shown because of speed density tune and failing MAF. I call Speed 4x that upcoming Monday with no return phone call until I told the girl to have this guy call me asap. Tony calls me back with a attitude, I explain what happened and if we can setup a tow to get it there. He tells me that's on me, explain to him how the hell is that on me when it is obviously a tune related issue. He says well what proof is it that it's a tune. I say 8 years no issues, 30mi after tune and here we are. He tells me we can talk about reimbursement for the tow if it turns out it truly is a tune related problem and if it ends up being mechanical "ALL HELL IS GONNA BREAK LOOSE" I I say what the hell is that supposed to mean? He says I don't like your attitude and I got 35 cars sitting here in my shop and I'm doing you a favor. I said you're doing me a favor huh after I just spent a $1000 for this ****, favor huh. I said tell you what, this is why I wanted to be there in the first place to see what was going on and I want to be present when I bring it back so we know what's going on. He says like I told you before it's not common practice to let customers be present and you can sit in the waiting area. NOW any normal logical person is not going to feel comfortable after the kid just told you "If it turns out to be a mechanical issue all hells going to break loose" leaving them to play with a car with me blind. I don't know these people I don't know if he's going to do something to make it look like a mechanical issue so they're not responsible. How am I supposed to know, I don't know this kid from a hole in the wall. It didn't sit well with me and after talking to several Buddies they all agreed that they wouldn't bring it back because of those statements made and my concern. I had Timmy Two-Stage from Sound Performance go through the car and we found a lot of crap that was ****ed up. Conflicting parameters in the PCM, Bank 2 sensor 1 02 dead because unplugged " they should have picked it up and nothing was wrong with the mass air flow". Idle and 30mph cruise control **** was because instead of getting the proper mix of air flow and timing to work with my tight converter, they decided to just throw a bunch of idle air at it as a Band-Aid. Shift points were all jacked up and the REP was because and I quote from the other tuner...
"The only thing that doesn't jive is the p0103 code. This is a normal code and it's suppose to set to enter speed density mode. You have no tell the PCM to report "No MIL" so all it will effect is failing the MAF and going into SD mode.
Well....Speed Inc has it set to report the code on the first error.
Changing it to "No MIL" should fix the problem.....the flip side to that is all the fueling will be totally jacked and the VE Table (fueling table).
When I change it to set the code differently it will want approx 10% more of a numerical value for fuel.
It will run lean as hell just from the touch of a Button. It shows the MAF error correct in the "check engine" display, it's just reporting it differently. Basically, car is in speed
density mode, but computer is using mass air flow meter to determine air flow. It's freaking out"... contact Speed inc again tell them what we found and that it was a tuning issue they called BS and continue to deny it was them... Car runs 10x better, he spent hours explaining everything to me, had me sit through the whole process we did Street tuning until 2:30 am and It made even more power on his Mustang dyno then it did on their dynojet.... I am not the 1st person to have problems with them, come to find out its seems to be a ongoing issue with them messing peoples cars up...
But just the other day they put up a white C5Z with a LS7 swap which I though was funny because there isint a lot of LS7 swapped Z06's and hardly any that are mated with a auto swap like mine. So i found it funny that they never posted mine but did this one and I was there weeks before this car and they always post customers cars haha. When I posted on the page asking "What happened to the Red Z06 with the LS7 and auto swap from several weeks ago that was sitting in the shop" they deleted my comment and blocked me hahaha
My buddy shared it on his page..
So to make clear what happened from start to current. Had setup a tune appointment setup back in January "Before the tax return spending frenzy set in". We set it up for March 11th giving weather a chance to break. I put in for a vacation day with the assumption that I was going to chill around there, BS and check it out. Guy there calls me @ 4:30 PM March 10th telling me he has bad news and wants to bump my appointment because they have a E85 car they want to tune, "crapy because i set this up in jan and this is Not my problem but I brushed it off" Says maybe they can get to it around 2:30. I told him that sucks I was anticipating hanging around and checking it out. He cops a bit of a cocky response saying "well its not like you can come in the back, but you can sit in the waiting area. I said whatever and dropped it off @ 9 and had a buddy roll with to give me a ride. Calls me in the afternoon and tell me they found that my 100mm MAF was inconsistent @ idle and I had a PCV vac leak. Said they would take care of it and wanted to go SD but they wouldn't be done until following week. I obliged, I said that's fine. Go and pick up car March 16th. Making small talk with Guy who I was dealing with he asks why I decided to down my CR on the LS7 from his claimed factory 11.5:1 to my 11.25:1, confused looking at him we argued about stock compression for like 10 minutes. Told him factory is 11.0:1 he says no he does this all the time blah blah blah. Looks it up and says he doesn't know what he was thinking. Pointless conversation but stupid none the less. Anyways, I instantly noticed my car idled oddly high, 1050-1100. I asked him and he claimed that Jim set it @ 975 and my tach was off, "I think I know my car". He tells me it has to be like that or it will surge!!!??? GTFO, I told him it was set lower before and never bucked, he says impossible! Yea okay, so I said I'll drive it and get back to him.
So I drive it home in traffic and I notice the car rolls on @ 15mph which prompts me to ride my brakes in traffic... "flag 1 something is off".... then I notice when I get up to speed 30mph car basically never idles down and holds a cruise control speed until you hit the brake.... "flag 2 something is off"... Send him a email later that night explaining said issues. Get a response email March 17th saying if I'm not happy he will have to reschedule another appointment. I said crap weather is coming up and we will play by ear. Car sat for 2.5 weeks because of that little late March early April snow. 2 weekends ago I take the car out after picking it up, I do 1 quick little 1 gear blast and boom, Reduced Engine Power... Check codes and get P0103 which is correctly to be shown because of speed density tune and failing MAF. I call Speed 4x that upcoming Monday with no return phone call until I told the girl to have this guy call me asap. Tony calls me back with a attitude, I explain what happened and if we can setup a tow to get it there. He tells me that's on me, explain to him how the hell is that on me when it is obviously a tune related issue. He says well what proof is it that it's a tune. I say 8 years no issues, 30mi after tune and here we are. He tells me we can talk about reimbursement for the tow if it turns out it truly is a tune related problem and if it ends up being mechanical "ALL HELL IS GONNA BREAK LOOSE" I I say what the hell is that supposed to mean? He says I don't like your attitude and I got 35 cars sitting here in my shop and I'm doing you a favor. I said you're doing me a favor huh after I just spent a $1000 for this ****, favor huh. I said tell you what, this is why I wanted to be there in the first place to see what was going on and I want to be present when I bring it back so we know what's going on. He says like I told you before it's not common practice to let customers be present and you can sit in the waiting area. NOW any normal logical person is not going to feel comfortable after the kid just told you "If it turns out to be a mechanical issue all hells going to break loose" leaving them to play with a car with me blind. I don't know these people I don't know if he's going to do something to make it look like a mechanical issue so they're not responsible. How am I supposed to know, I don't know this kid from a hole in the wall. It didn't sit well with me and after talking to several Buddies they all agreed that they wouldn't bring it back because of those statements made and my concern. I had Timmy Two-Stage from Sound Performance go through the car and we found a lot of crap that was ****ed up. Conflicting parameters in the PCM, Bank 2 sensor 1 02 dead because unplugged " they should have picked it up and nothing was wrong with the mass air flow". Idle and 30mph cruise control **** was because instead of getting the proper mix of air flow and timing to work with my tight converter, they decided to just throw a bunch of idle air at it as a Band-Aid. Shift points were all jacked up and the REP was because and I quote from the other tuner...
"The only thing that doesn't jive is the p0103 code. This is a normal code and it's suppose to set to enter speed density mode. You have no tell the PCM to report "No MIL" so all it will effect is failing the MAF and going into SD mode.
Well....Speed Inc has it set to report the code on the first error.
Changing it to "No MIL" should fix the problem.....the flip side to that is all the fueling will be totally jacked and the VE Table (fueling table).
When I change it to set the code differently it will want approx 10% more of a numerical value for fuel.
It will run lean as hell just from the touch of a Button. It shows the MAF error correct in the "check engine" display, it's just reporting it differently. Basically, car is in speed
density mode, but computer is using mass air flow meter to determine air flow. It's freaking out"... contact Speed inc again tell them what we found and that it was a tuning issue they called BS and continue to deny it was them... Car runs 10x better, he spent hours explaining everything to me, had me sit through the whole process we did Street tuning until 2:30 am and It made even more power on his Mustang dyno then it did on their dynojet.... I am not the 1st person to have problems with them, come to find out its seems to be a ongoing issue with them messing peoples cars up...
But just the other day they put up a white C5Z with a LS7 swap which I though was funny because there isint a lot of LS7 swapped Z06's and hardly any that are mated with a auto swap like mine. So i found it funny that they never posted mine but did this one and I was there weeks before this car and they always post customers cars haha. When I posted on the page asking "What happened to the Red Z06 with the LS7 and auto swap from several weeks ago that was sitting in the shop" they deleted my comment and blocked me hahaha
My buddy shared it on his page..
Last edited by Breze84; 05-05-2016 at 09:19 AM.
05-05-2016, 09:29 AM
#8
Race Director
Member Since: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
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St. Jude Donor '15
If it's in speed density mode then it can't be using the MAF for airflow calculations. That's the whole point of "speed density" mode; i.e. NOT using the MAF. It can still be SHOWING mass air flow from the MAF while logging.. but the ECM isn't actually using that if it's in SD mode.
It may just be a nomenclature issue since you aren't a tuner, but thought I would point that out
Sounds like the first guys were a treat to deal with
Glad you got it straightened out.
It may just be a nomenclature issue since you aren't a tuner, but thought I would point that out
Sounds like the first guys were a treat to deal with
Glad you got it straightened out.
05-05-2016, 12:47 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks guys... I do all my own wrenching and installations but know basic theories when it comes to tuning. Basically I got a understanding of what is what but know nothing to give a valid argument on the subject...
05-11-2016, 10:07 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
Sounds like you are track & made a good choice moving on
I was tuning a LS3 C5 Z06 when you first post came up & wanted to mention the MAP sensor in the C5 is 1 bar, those tables need to be changed.
If you are using LS3/7 MAF card then the IAT curve needs to be re-calibrated in the C5 tables.
MAF being incorrectly failed happens, there are indications as such. I've a habit now of zero out the MAF curve just to be sure.
Your story is why I took on the second career of trying to learn how to tune. If for no other reason as to know when the BS meter begins to move.
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Breze84 (05-13-2016)