vettejockey

I am installing my LG Longtube Headers this week and I am not sure if I should intall tehe cats or not. How much difference do they make. The big question is how much RWHP do they rob.

8850

If you will install these they flow as good as the size of the pipe. Virtually no flow loss and yet they will keep the sound down. I have two of the 2 1/2" on my 06 Mustang and they sound slighty lounder than factory but very acceptable.

http://www.car-sound.com/02product/universal/935.asp

Wayne O

Ask LGM to be sure but it's my understanding that the high-flow cats provided by LGM cause little, if any, loss of power.

vettejockey

Thanks. I can ask Anthony tomorrow to be sure. It seems as I look at the set up the Cats would restrict the air flow. I am looking at going with an aftermarket Z06 exhaust to continue the 3 inch flow all the way back.

mfinocc

Do the high-flow cats. You won't feel any power loss and your car won't be stinky.

burtonbl103

And you will pass emmision in most states
Just not the people republic of california

DrivnXcitment

As someone who has run catted and catless cars, just keep the cats (high flow of course) and you'll be a happy camper. Too smelly without them, and it creates some drone. Believe it or not the cats help a little with the sound too.

mcm

Why is it not possible to meet CARB emissions standards w/ LG long tubes?

haljensen

Because California requires STRICT compliance with Federal Emissions standards that state "only original catalytic convertors in the original location". Many other states are following California, major cities in Texas require the same standards.

goatts

If there are no inspections in your state then it comes down to whether you want to be evironmentally consious or not. No other reason to keep cats.

Whiterock1

$50,000 fine and 5 years in the Federal pen...something to consider if your state has vis inspections.

crabman

This information is redily available on the epa website. Here is a cut and paste.....




Emissions Laws & Regulations – Frequently Asked Questions


What is the difference between the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB)?

The EPA is a federal governmental agency that works to develop and enforce regulations that implement environmental laws enacted by Congress. CARB is a California governmental agency that promotes and protects public health, welfare and ecological resources through the reduction of air pollutants.

What agency establishes the laws that affect the emissions controls on my vehicle?

The State of California has long been recognized as one of the major air pollution problem areas in the United States. CARB was established in part to study this problem and implement changes to reduce air pollution. CARB has been leading the nation in implementation of strict emissions requirements for motor vehicles through the use of emission control devices and bi-annual motor vehicle smog-check program. Vehicles that are labeled as "California Emissions Equipped Vehicles" vehicles meet the emissions requirement of CARB for that particular model year.

The EPA establishes the pollution laws and regulations for states other than California. Vehicles that are labeled as "Federal" emission equipped vehicles meet the emissions requirement of the EPA for that particular model year.

Have other states adopted the California emissions laws?

In recent years, other states have suffered similar air pollution problems similar to those that faced California. Instead of these states enacting their own set of emissions laws, the federal government offered the California laws as an alternative. Instead of having 50 different sets of emissions laws, states must choose between either the California or Federal regulations.

At the present time there are several states that have enacted the California laws (i.e. Mass., Maine, New York, and Vermont) and new vehicles are sold as "California Emissions Equipped Vehicles". You can easily determine the emissions status of your car by referring to the emissions decal that is placed under the hood of your car.

Is my vehicle required to be submitted to a tailpipe emissions "smog-check?

This depends on the state that you reside in and the local requirements. For example in California, smog-checks are required in populated areas, but not in selected rural areas. With laws and regulations changing at an increasing rate, it is very difficult for the aftermarket to keep ahead of these changes. We suggest you contact your local or state agencies for information regarding your emissions laws.

Can I legally replace an emissions sensitive part on my car with an aftermarket product?

In the state of California, it is not legal to replace an emissions sensitive device without the replacement part having an exemption from CARB. Although replacing a particular device might have no apparent effect on the emissions, and the car might even pass a tail pipe "smog-check", the replacement part is still not considered emissions legal. In many cases, the mandatory visual inspection of the vehicle prior to an official state required smog-check may result in immediate failure of the test if a non-exempt part is identified.

A part that has been issued a CARB exemption has been subjected to strict laboratory testing as required by CARB in order to demonstrate that the replacement part will not increase emissions. (These tests are NOT the same as the "smog check" test and often require "cold start" testing procedures in order to test the efficiency of the emissions system during the initial seconds of the start-up cycle.) A part that has successfully passed these tests will be appointed an Executive Order number and will be listed on the CARB website for reference. Every Executive Order part or modification has an assigned number that can be verified by Smog Check stations, BAR Referee stations, or by the ARB. This number should be displayed on or near the emissions sensitive part for reference by a smog check technician.

For a database listing of current exempt parts, visit:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php


What does it mean when an aftermarket product is advertised as "CARB Exempt" or "50 State Legal"?

Although a part may be advertised as "50 State Legal", this may be more of a marketing statement than reality. Unless an emissions sensitive part has been issued an Executive Order number by CARB, or an EPA exemption, the part is NOT legal for street use. Parts that are typically appointed CARB exemptions include: headers, air filter/intakes, turbo kits, and supercharger kits. Parts that are typically not eligible for a CARB exemption include, but are not limited to: OBD II replacement catalytic converters (as of early 2005, only a few 1997 and later OBD II catalytic converters have been granted an exemption), downpipes or headers that remove or relocate a catalytic converter, and performance carburetor kits. Contact the manufacturer of a product that you are considering purchasing for details regarding that specific component.

An exhaust system that is installed AFTER the catalytic converter is considered a "cat-back" system and is considered emissions legal. (Sound level restrictions may be an issue in your state, check with the exhaust manufacturer or you local authorities for more information.)

Can I replace the OEM catalytic converter on my car with a "high flow" catalytic converter?

The catalytic converter plays a major role in the emissions reduction of a motor vehicle. The vehicle manufacturer has matched a specific catalytic converter to the vehicle to minimize emissions output. Both CARB and the EPA do not allow the replacement of a catalytic converter with non-exempt "high flow" performance replacement unit. In fact, it is technically not legal to even replace a converter unless it has been proven by technician to have failed, and then it can only be replaced with an exempt OEM equivalent unit. (However, enforcement of this requirement is almost non-existent and is the primary loop-hole that allows the usage of so-called "high flow" catalytic converters. Many of these units are sold with the disclaimer as being a "race" component and are not intended for street use.) Due to the hundreds of vehicle models produced over the years, it is virtually impossible to determine by glancing under a car whether the converter is the original unit, a legal OEM replacement, or a non-legal aftermarket "high flow" performance unit. Unless CARB or the EPA decide to take more aggressive enforcement action, the installation and usage of these non-exempt "high flow" catalytic converters will likely continue.

Can I remove my stock exhaust manifold/catalytic converter and replace them with a header/catalytic converter combination on my RX-7?

Not legally. As mentioned above, CARB or the EPA does not allow replacement or relocation of any of the stock catalytic converters. They require that all original catalytic converters be in their original positions, and replacement of multiple catalytic converters with a single non-exempt "high flow" performance unit is not allowed.

Its often said here that LTs are legal in some states. Not true. Neither the Fed nor CARB rules allow relocation of the cats. All states must comply with one or the other. Passing inspection of course is another matter. This can be done in most areas. All, if you pick the right shop and are prepared to deliver a little lubricant (money) as needed to to take care of the pesky problem.

bdking57

Things to consider if your not driving the car daily...

high flow cats still smell, your paying alot of money for something that is no where near the quality of the OEM cats.

The car sounds way better and deeper without cats.. but louder. Cats do help muffle the sound, but they also dont sound as good.

Header swaps are easy.. and most new vehicles dont need to be inspected for quite a long time after they are purchase.... By the time Ill have to have my car smogged in california, Ill probably be driving a c7.

xstang

Go catless and plant a tree...

I have Kooks high flow cats X pipe and I'm about to swap it for the offroad version... More Hp, lighter, cheaper and they don't smell nearly as people say... That's just my opinion though....

As far as the law, when is the last time that you have heard of this law being enforced.? I bet half the guys in the DFW area don't run cats.

When the car is inspected, it will pass if it is a newer car unless you have a check engine light. If the computer is happy, they are happy. All they do is plug in to your ecu and see if there are any codes...

Whiterock1

There are states that do a very close visual inspection. And, several shops and some individuals have been prosecuted for this--including several in the People's Democratic Republic of Taxachusetts. If you live in Southside VA--like I did, or have no emission testing--like I do in CO, no sweat. If you live in a 'workers paradise' in the East or the CA gulag, I'll send you a cake with a file in it.

bdking57

Why would one possible bring there catless car into an inspection site unless it was a "dirty" sight.. lets see.. let me bring my illegal car right to the state inspector.. for that matter, they will give you crap for highflows, an intake, or headers as well... plus cops arent going to be crawling around on the ground trying to find yours on the street as yoru standing there beside them on the side of the road.

You have two options for running catless..put the stockers back on(and you will have barely used cats that will pass with some more agro cams/heads etc.) or offer a couple of Benjamins to the shady mechanic in 5-7 years or whenever you would need to get inspected.

I dont really car about running catless as im riding my bike to work to save trees.

saplumr

I have basically the same exhaust setup with offroad x-pipe....but don't kid yourself about the odor. It's powerfully strong.

Waveblaster785

I have the Kooks and ORX, I have absolutely NO issues with odor.

bdking57

something I should mention...with certain brands of gas or from certain stations I have noticed a powerful odor while its much less noticable at another gas station.. example, I would fill up at a local 76, and everyone would notice the smell...later, I moved to a chevron and the smell was barely noticable although it was still irritating my skin a little bit.

Wayne88

I don't understand this 'odor' stuff.
In the 'old days', before cats, I never noticed any odor.

Why is there an odor without cats ???