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Old 03-13-2007, 11:13 PM   #1
corvetterich
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Default LS2 Versus 4.4LC3 Supercharged Northstar

Any and all comments are welcomed here, but would also like to hear from some really TECH HEADS TOO..

I love my corvette, but always loved my High Reving RX7... Here Goes..

Would the 4.4Supercharged Northstar make a better performing engine than my C6 LS2..

4.4 Northstar - 469 HP 6400rpm , only thing to beat it LS7 505HP..
4.4 Northstar - DOHC No Pushrods Like my LS2
4.4 Northstar - 9:1 Comp Great for Boosting, LS2 10.9 Comp Not that good for boosting...

Before I go out and buy a FI for my C6, I want to know if the Northstar
Crate motor 4.4 supercharged with some tweaking would make my C6 one high screaming SOB... I'am serious, so if anyone has some productive info please respond, Hey any input is good..

Things I don't know - is the bottom end strong on the 4.4
Will the DOHC Northstar fit in the C6.
Will the Northstar match up to the 6speed.
Is there anyone with experience with boosting the Northstar.
Or is all this just a waste of time and money..
Thanks...
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Old 03-13-2007, 11:52 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvetterich View Post
Any and all comments are welcomed here, but would also like to hear from some really TECH HEADS TOO..

I love my corvette, but always loved my High Reving RX7... Here Goes..

Would the 4.4Supercharged Northstar make a better performing engine than my C6 LS2..

4.4 Northstar - 469 HP 6400rpm , only thing to beat it LS7 505HP..
4.4 Northstar - DOHC No Pushrods Like my LS2
4.4 Northstar - 9:1 Comp Great for Boosting, LS2 10.9 Comp Not that good for boosting...

Before I go out and buy a FI for my C6, I want to know if the Northstar
Crate motor 4.4 supercharged with some tweaking would make my C6 one high screaming SOB... I'am serious, so if anyone has some productive info please respond, Hey any input is good..

Things I don't know - is the bottom end strong on the 4.4
Will the DOHC Northstar fit in the C6.
Will the Northstar match up to the 6speed.
Is there anyone with experience with boosting the Northstar.
Or is all this just a waste of time and money..
Thanks...

Whats the ? Im confused. Do you want to put a Northstar 4.4SC motor in a C6? I don't think it would fit very easily.
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Old 03-14-2007, 03:24 AM   #3
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Might as well stick a Shelby GT500 engine in your C6 if you're considering swapping to a Northstar (yuck). Basically, what I'm telling you to do is just to keep the LS2 and throw some boost at it!
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Old 03-14-2007, 05:12 AM   #4
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I love the Northstars (I had a heavy Deville Concours with the 300hp version, ran a 15.07@92.40 ), especially the new supercharged ones but that kind of swap would be VERY cost prohibitive, likely equal to or even exceeding what throwing some of the finest aftermarket parts and tuning (I'm talking in excess of a safe 700rwhp) into your LS2 would cost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RWTD View Post
Basically, what I'm telling you to do is just to keep the LS2 and throw some boost at it!
There are a lot of things one could do to an LS2 to make it REALLY sing.
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Last edited by LS1LT1; 07-19-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 03-14-2007, 12:02 PM   #5
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If your deciding on that. why not an LPE set up or an LS7 crate engine?
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:33 PM   #6
corvetterich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvetterich View Post
Any and all comments are welcomed here, but would also like to hear from some really TECH HEADS TOO..

I love my corvette, but always loved my High Reving RX7... Here Goes..

Would the 4.4Supercharged Northstar make a better performing engine than my C6 LS2..

4.4 Northstar - 469 HP 6400rpm , only thing to beat it LS7 505HP..
4.4 Northstar - DOHC No Pushrods Like my LS2
4.4 Northstar - 9:1 Comp Great for Boosting, LS2 10.9 Comp Not that good for boosting...

Before I go out and buy a FI for my C6, I want to know if the Northstar
Crate motor 4.4 supercharged with some tweaking would make my C6 one high screaming SOB... I'am serious, so if anyone has some productive info please respond, Hey any input is good..

Things I don't know - is the bottom end strong on the 4.4
Will the DOHC Northstar fit in the C6.
Will the Northstar match up to the 6speed.
Is there anyone with experience with boosting the Northstar.
Or is all this just a waste of time and money..
Thanks...

I appreciate the input.. Does anyone know where I can research the specs for the 4.4 Northstar, Like- what type of Rods, Crank, you know.
I would like to find out if Gm puts a good engine in their $ 100,000 car or not...
I'am not going to give up on this Idea yet... The 4.4 is a 267ci motor
which will be able to rev with the best of the ferrari's. Look at most of the really hot exotics and you will notice small cubic inch high reving great sounding motors... I would love to accomplish this with a GM motor in my C6.. There has got to be someone who has info on this engine and the possibilities...Help
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvetterich View Post
I'am not going to give up on this Idea yet... The 4.4 is a 267ci motor
which will be able to rev with the best of the ferrari's. Look at most of the really hot exotics and you will notice small cubic inch high reving great sounding motors... I would love to accomplish this with a GM motor in my C6.. There has got to be someone who has info on this engine and the possibilities...Help
If I didn't know any better I would actually think you might be one of those "pushrods are so old and outdated, only DOHC multivalve motors can make power and rev high" types.
Truth is as great a motor as the Northstar is and even being a smaller displacement (though physically large) DOHC 32V motor it doesn't wind all that high. You could built an LS2 that revs to 7200+rpm safely and would sound absolutely demonic while doing it.

Look at a board called www.caddyinfo.com for more Northstar info.
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:17 AM   #8
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Torque is king. I love my M3, but the C6 rules. I can't imagine doing this.

That said, the Northstar works fine in the XLR, so I can't see how this:

a) Wouldn't fit
b) Would be that hard

You should be able to use XLR parts to make it work.

Weird, but doable, I would think.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tscales View Post
Torque is king. I love my M3, but the C6 rules. I can't imagine doing this.

That said, the Northstar works fine in the XLR, so I can't see how this:

a) Wouldn't fit
b) Would be that hard

You should be able to use XLR parts to make it work.

Weird, but doable, I would think.
It's an interesting concept and I can't see why it wouldn't fit since the XLR is the same as a C6 chassis. But it barely fits because the engine is physically large for its displacement. I don't know about hooking up to the 6spd as opposed to the automatic. The real question is whether or not you could boost the heck out of it and get 700hp+ out of it. Otherwise it's a waste.

On the other hand, if you're going to buy a crate motor, I agree with the earlier post of Stabori that you might as well buy an LS7. There's nothing wrong with pushrods!
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:24 PM   #10
corvetterich
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Robvuk, your right the LS7 is a good motor, But at 11:1 Comp there's not much room for improvement, as far as boosting goes.. Also there is no way the 7.0 liter can rev where a 4.4 liter can... And that's still my madness... I love my C6 and I knew it was a torquer motor and I can live with this..

I'am just thinking if there is a chance that I can have a 8,000 RPM
small block, with reliability in this car I would think would be fantastic..

I don't think anyone here would say a high reving Ferrrai sounds like
Sh'''T.....or a Lambo or a Porsche... And don't anyone tell me to buy one of those cars then... I could, but I love my car, I'am just thinking
about something different for my car, If It can't be done then so what
I'am happy with what I have and I'll put a supercharger and be done with it....BTW the Cadillac forum was not helpful, anything else out there.. Thanks BTW the new Audi R8 will have 254ci dohc 8,000rpm and the
M3 is said to have 4.0 liter V8

Last edited by corvetterich; 03-15-2007 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvetterich View Post
Robvuk, your right the LS7 is a good motor, But at 11:1 Comp there's not much room for improvement, as far as boosting goes.. Also there is no way the 7.0 liter can rev where a 4.4 liter can... And that's still my madness... I love my C6 and I knew it was a torquer motor and I can live with this..

I'am just thinking if there is a chance that I can have a 8,000 RPM
small block, with reliability in this car I would think would be fantastic..

I don't think anyone here would say a high reving Ferrrai sounds like
Sh'''T.....or a Lambo or a Porsche... And don't anyone tell me to buy one of those cars then... I could, but I love my car, I'am just thinking
about something different for my car, If It can't be done then so what
I'am happy with what I have and I'll put a supercharger and be done with it....BTW the Cadillac forum was not helpful, anything else out there.. Thanks BTW the new Audi R8 will have 254ci dohc 8,000rpm and the
M3 is said to have 4.0 liter V8
I can see where you're coming from but there must be a problem with getting that much power out of the Northstar. Otherwise, i think that's what they'd be doing for the CTS-V instead of the Chevy motors. I'd try contacting Cadillac performance division and ask them. There must be some reasoning why the CTS race teams opted out of the Northstar.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robvuk View Post
I can see where you're coming from but there must be a problem with getting that much power out of the Northstar. Otherwise, i think that's what they'd be doing for the CTS-V instead of the Chevy motors. I'd try contacting Cadillac performance division and ask them. There must be some reasoning why the CTS race teams opted out of the Northstar.
Great points.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvetterich View Post
Robvuk, your right the LS7 is a good motor, But at 11:1 Comp there's not much room for improvement, as far as boosting goes.. Also there is no way the 7.0 liter can rev where a 4.4 liter can... And that's still my madness... I love my C6 and I knew it was a torquer motor and I can live with this..

I'am just thinking if there is a chance that I can have a 8,000 RPM
small block, with reliability in this car I would think would be fantastic..

I don't think anyone here would say a high reving Ferrrai sounds like
Sh'''T.....or a Lambo or a Porsche... And don't anyone tell me to buy one of those cars then... I could, but I love my car, I'am just thinking
about something different for my car, If It can't be done then so what
I'am happy with what I have and I'll put a supercharger and be done with it....BTW the Cadillac forum was not helpful, anything else out there.. Thanks BTW the new Audi R8 will have 254ci dohc 8,000rpm and the
M3 is said to have 4.0 liter V8
If you want to spin the LS2 to 8k put the right parts into it and do it. It can be done but it will cost you money. Remember NASCAR spins there pushrod motors to almost 10k. Of course they rebuild the motors every 500 miles or so.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:56 AM   #14
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Call Mallett. They are doing all kinds of stuff with the Northstar. Turbochargers, superchargers, etc.
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Old 03-17-2007, 08:04 PM   #15
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MZR3YT, Thank you ... I will call Mallett Monday, I just checked out their WEB and they do have a 500hp 4.4 Northstar... I bet they will have alot more answers about the Northstar and if it is worth it or not....Thanks again...
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:09 PM   #16
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Those small displacement motors rev high because they have to rev that high to produce any HP.

Since HP = [TQ x RPM] / 5252, and since they don't make much TQ (due to their small displacement), they have to rev to 8K RPM to generate HP because HP is proportional to the product of TQ and RPM.

That being said, it's your money

Have you considered destroking an LS2, to reduce the displacement? Destroking would enhance it's ability ot rev and you would benefit from the LS2's generous bore. While you're replacing the crankshaft, you could go ahead and build a forged motor with lower compression which would make a good platform for boost, and install a camshaft designed for forced induction. You would wind up spending less money, you wouldn't have to hack up your corvette and it's accessory drives, ect, and in the end, you would have a MUCH stronger platform.

Last edited by need-for-speed; 03-17-2007 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:50 PM   #17
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But I had someone at a Cattlerack I mean Cadillac dealer tell me they valued the incoming NorthStar cars by how bad the oil leaks were on them,,, I'm not trying to be sarcastic here,, but that is what I was told. That they actually had a form they filled out and one of the spots on the form was to mark how bad the oil leaking was. This was for every Northstar that came in. they are impressive but I would put an LS2's reliability up to it any day,, additionally this may be why the race teams didn't bother running it.
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:13 PM   #18
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Hey you guys may be right, and this is what I'am trying to figure out, So thanks for everyones input it is appreciate...It may just turn out that the 4.4 Northstar supercharged engine is just not reliable enough to put out the amount of High RPM power I'am looking for.. But I will talk to Mallett Monday and see what they say about my Idea...

Need-for-speed, I don't know if you can Destroke the LS2 from its 3.62 stroke down to about 3.25 which would be needed to put its revs
in the 8,000 rpm range...I'am also wondering if its 4.00bore might be a little too big... The Ideal Bore and Stroke ratio seems to run between
3.60-3.85 for the Bore and between 2.95- 3.25 for the Stroke....For high RPM use...

I know it's easier to just supercharge my C6 and forget about it, But I have always tweaked my cars more then usual...Thanks again...
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvetterich View Post
Need-for-speed, I don't know if you can Destroke the LS2 from its 3.62 stroke down to about 3.25 which would be needed to put its revs
in the 8,000 rpm range...I'am also wondering if its 4.00bore might be a little too big... The Ideal Bore and Stroke ratio seems to run between
3.60-3.85 for the Bore and between 2.95- 3.25 for the Stroke....For high RPM use...
With bore - bigger is always better, in terms of displacement, and breathing. I don't think there's such a thing as too big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corvetterich View Post
I know it's easier to just supercharge my C6 and forget about it, But I have always tweaked my cars more then usual...Thanks again...
That's what I would do. Anything else, and you're just donating money.
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMyers View Post
If you want to spin the LS2 to 8k put the right parts into it and do it. It can be done but it will cost you money.
True. But still likely much cheaper than buying and rebuilding/modifying a supercharged Northstar and then paying for all of the fabrication/installation involved in fitting it into a Corvette with all of the electronics still functioning properly LOL.
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:29 AM
 
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