Heads: AFR vs L92 vs RHS ? HELP Pls
05-20-2007, 10:53 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia Bch VA
Posts: 10,516
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06
Heads: AFR vs L92 vs RHS ? HELP Pls
I’ve been researching Heads for a Head & Cam job this summer. I’ve read much on AFRs with a FAST manifold as well as new info on the L92/L76 set up. My interest is low end TQ vice a powerful top end - I don’t go to the strip. But my club goes 2x a year so I may start.
Of interest is the RHS heads. I’ve found nothing on them other than the RHS site. What’s attractive is RHS’s relatively high exhaust flow, the 11 deg valve angle to accommodate higher Valve lift, and RHS & FAST are owned by the same parent company. One would assume that the porting match-up would be the best possible.
Any thoughts?
Comments?
Experience with RHS?
NN here needs all the help he can get
Of interest is the RHS heads. I’ve found nothing on them other than the RHS site. What’s attractive is RHS’s relatively high exhaust flow, the 11 deg valve angle to accommodate higher Valve lift, and RHS & FAST are owned by the same parent company. One would assume that the porting match-up would be the best possible.
Any thoughts?
Comments?
Experience with RHS?
NN here needs all the help he can get
05-20-2007, 11:42 AM
#2
Tech Contributor
In your post above you state you are looking for experience.
I suggest you go with a proven package. Any of the above parts will yield good results but mixing and matching rarely has great results.
All of the above heads have worked but they are specific results with very specific cam choices. I dont think its an issue of saying which head you will get then go on for a cam pick independent of that picked head.
There will be tuners that will say X head has great low end, look at our package with secret cam specs. By the way we dont sell it as a package. No one mods a car with dyno numbers in mind, they mod them with the end result of a faster car.
As said in a PM to you the Cartek 4x package with their 3x cam ran a 10.80 1/4 mile in a C6. The same driver failed to break out faster than a 11.2 1/4 with a car that put down 506rwhp with trick flows and a 236 cam (bigger than the 3x cam).
L92 heads have 3 issues: 3 different castings. Even if you got the best casting which is a guess at this point, none of the tuners got any low end power from any of them out of the box. The heads once ported sport a 1599-1799 price tag. Ignore nonsense from people saying they got a package with heads and manifold for 1300-1400 bucks. They didnt come with a usable spring and that is another 500-600. RPM motors used a huge cam with L92's that is in the high 230's on a 113LSA. It was the best low end performance I have ever seen in a stock bottom end. It looks like stroker power. The cam wont fit without flycutting on milled heads. DTE's awesome package made great low end power with a tiny 223 cam duration but they wont sell the package by mail and the heads and cam are in house products with the heads being ported and not stock.
The AFR's have very repeatable results in the 460-480rwhp area using small cams that are readily available. LG uses the g5X3 and Tony Mamo has gotten great dyno power with the 224/228 Mamo cam which is effortless to tune. I havene seen anyone run in the 10's with the package on LS1tech regardless of car.
Trick flows require the use of roller tip rockers which are harlan-sharp $400 dollar add-ons to a 2500 head. The heads have 13.5 degree valve angles allowing 236 cams to fit without nothcing pistons.
ETP has availablity issues even now, but have 11 degree valve angles fitting big cams but are tough to get. With a small 224/230 cam, a forum member got 460rwhp with monster low end and Andy at A&A got almost 500rwhp with a 228/232 cam on a 114LSA.
Expect to only see these numbers with a FAST manifold. Avoiding the FAST and getting a L92 head with its cheap L76 saves a bundle but the norm, comes with a not so great low end power dip.
The best repeatable combo is the 1800 dollar cartek 4x head and their 400 dollar 3x cam. Dyno's can be fudged but the trap speed and ET dont lie. With all the usual bolt ons, the package produces in the 470-480rwhp and they have cams that will get you over 500rwhp with those heads.
I suggest you go with a proven package. Any of the above parts will yield good results but mixing and matching rarely has great results.
All of the above heads have worked but they are specific results with very specific cam choices. I dont think its an issue of saying which head you will get then go on for a cam pick independent of that picked head.
There will be tuners that will say X head has great low end, look at our package with secret cam specs. By the way we dont sell it as a package. No one mods a car with dyno numbers in mind, they mod them with the end result of a faster car.
As said in a PM to you the Cartek 4x package with their 3x cam ran a 10.80 1/4 mile in a C6. The same driver failed to break out faster than a 11.2 1/4 with a car that put down 506rwhp with trick flows and a 236 cam (bigger than the 3x cam).
L92 heads have 3 issues: 3 different castings. Even if you got the best casting which is a guess at this point, none of the tuners got any low end power from any of them out of the box. The heads once ported sport a 1599-1799 price tag. Ignore nonsense from people saying they got a package with heads and manifold for 1300-1400 bucks. They didnt come with a usable spring and that is another 500-600. RPM motors used a huge cam with L92's that is in the high 230's on a 113LSA. It was the best low end performance I have ever seen in a stock bottom end. It looks like stroker power. The cam wont fit without flycutting on milled heads. DTE's awesome package made great low end power with a tiny 223 cam duration but they wont sell the package by mail and the heads and cam are in house products with the heads being ported and not stock.
The AFR's have very repeatable results in the 460-480rwhp area using small cams that are readily available. LG uses the g5X3 and Tony Mamo has gotten great dyno power with the 224/228 Mamo cam which is effortless to tune. I havene seen anyone run in the 10's with the package on LS1tech regardless of car.
Trick flows require the use of roller tip rockers which are harlan-sharp $400 dollar add-ons to a 2500 head. The heads have 13.5 degree valve angles allowing 236 cams to fit without nothcing pistons.
ETP has availablity issues even now, but have 11 degree valve angles fitting big cams but are tough to get. With a small 224/230 cam, a forum member got 460rwhp with monster low end and Andy at A&A got almost 500rwhp with a 228/232 cam on a 114LSA.
Expect to only see these numbers with a FAST manifold. Avoiding the FAST and getting a L92 head with its cheap L76 saves a bundle but the norm, comes with a not so great low end power dip.
The best repeatable combo is the 1800 dollar cartek 4x head and their 400 dollar 3x cam. Dyno's can be fudged but the trap speed and ET dont lie. With all the usual bolt ons, the package produces in the 470-480rwhp and they have cams that will get you over 500rwhp with those heads.
05-20-2007, 11:49 AM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia Bch VA
Posts: 10,516
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06
In your post above you state you are looking for experience.
I suggest you go with a proven package. Any of the above parts will yield good results but mixing and matching rarely has great results.
All of the above heads have worked but they are specific results with very specific cam choices. I dont think its an issue of saying which head you will get then go on for a cam pick independent of that picked head.
There will be tuners that will say X head has great low end, look at our package with secret cam specs. By the way we dont sell it as a package. No one mods a car with dyno numbers in mind, they mod them with the end result of a faster car.
As said in a PM to you the Cartek 4x package with their 3x cam ran a 10.80 1/4 mile in a C6. The same driver failed to break out faster than a 11.2 1/4 with a car that put down 506rwhp with trick flows and a 236 cam (bigger than the 3x cam).
L92 heads have 3 issues: 3 different castings. Even if you got the best casting which is a guess at this point, none of the tuners got any low end power from any of them out of the box. The heads once ported sport a 1599-1799 price tag. Ignore nonsense from people saying they got a package with heads and manifold for 1300-1400 bucks. They didnt come with a usable spring and that is another 500-600. RPM motors used a huge cam with L92's that is in the high 230's on a 113LSA. It was the best low end performance I have ever seen in a stock bottom end. It looks like stroker power. The cam wont fit without flycutting on milled heads. DTE's awesome package made great low end power with a tiny 223 cam duration but they wont sell the package by mail and the heads and cam are in house products with the heads being ported and not stock.
The AFR's have very repeatable results in the 460-480rwhp area using small cams that are readily available. LG uses the g5X3 and Tony Mamo has gotten great dyno power with the 224/228 Mamo cam which is effortless to tune. I havene seen anyone run in the 10's with the package on LS1tech regardless of car.
Trick flows require the use of roller tip rockers which are harlan-sharp $400 dollar add-ons to a 2500 head. The heads have 13.5 degree valve angles allowing 236 cams to fit without nothcing pistons.
ETP has availablity issues even now, but have 11 degree valve angles fitting big cams but are tough to get. With a small 224/230 cam, a forum member got 460rwhp with monster low end and Andy at A&A got almost 500rwhp with a 228/232 cam on a 114LSA.
Expect to only see these numbers with a FAST manifold. Avoiding the FAST and getting a L92 head with its cheap L76 saves a bundle but the norm, comes with a not so great low end power dip.
The best repeatable combo is the 1800 dollar cartek 4x head and their 400 dollar 3x cam. Dyno's can be fudged but the trap speed and ET dont lie. With all the usual bolt ons, the package produces in the 470-480rwhp and they have cams that will get you over 500rwhp with those heads.
I suggest you go with a proven package. Any of the above parts will yield good results but mixing and matching rarely has great results.
All of the above heads have worked but they are specific results with very specific cam choices. I dont think its an issue of saying which head you will get then go on for a cam pick independent of that picked head.
There will be tuners that will say X head has great low end, look at our package with secret cam specs. By the way we dont sell it as a package. No one mods a car with dyno numbers in mind, they mod them with the end result of a faster car.
As said in a PM to you the Cartek 4x package with their 3x cam ran a 10.80 1/4 mile in a C6. The same driver failed to break out faster than a 11.2 1/4 with a car that put down 506rwhp with trick flows and a 236 cam (bigger than the 3x cam).
L92 heads have 3 issues: 3 different castings. Even if you got the best casting which is a guess at this point, none of the tuners got any low end power from any of them out of the box. The heads once ported sport a 1599-1799 price tag. Ignore nonsense from people saying they got a package with heads and manifold for 1300-1400 bucks. They didnt come with a usable spring and that is another 500-600. RPM motors used a huge cam with L92's that is in the high 230's on a 113LSA. It was the best low end performance I have ever seen in a stock bottom end. It looks like stroker power. The cam wont fit without flycutting on milled heads. DTE's awesome package made great low end power with a tiny 223 cam duration but they wont sell the package by mail and the heads and cam are in house products with the heads being ported and not stock.
The AFR's have very repeatable results in the 460-480rwhp area using small cams that are readily available. LG uses the g5X3 and Tony Mamo has gotten great dyno power with the 224/228 Mamo cam which is effortless to tune. I havene seen anyone run in the 10's with the package on LS1tech regardless of car.
Trick flows require the use of roller tip rockers which are harlan-sharp $400 dollar add-ons to a 2500 head. The heads have 13.5 degree valve angles allowing 236 cams to fit without nothcing pistons.
ETP has availablity issues even now, but have 11 degree valve angles fitting big cams but are tough to get. With a small 224/230 cam, a forum member got 460rwhp with monster low end and Andy at A&A got almost 500rwhp with a 228/232 cam on a 114LSA.
Expect to only see these numbers with a FAST manifold. Avoiding the FAST and getting a L92 head with its cheap L76 saves a bundle but the norm, comes with a not so great low end power dip.
The best repeatable combo is the 1800 dollar cartek 4x head and their 400 dollar 3x cam. Dyno's can be fudged but the trap speed and ET dont lie. With all the usual bolt ons, the package produces in the 470-480rwhp and they have cams that will get you over 500rwhp with those heads.
05-20-2007, 11:56 AM
#4
Former Vendor
I've got the package you are looking for in our Edlebrock 215 heads / way under 230° cam / Fast 90 - 460 RWHP / 430 RWT - I'll post the graph later today.
Give me a call on Monday.
Give me a call on Monday.
05-20-2007, 11:59 AM
#5
Tech Contributor
By the way, RHS is an ETP head that is ported by RHS. The price tag of 1800 bucks is for ONE head.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...ight=RHS+heads
There are no real track results but a search for those heads on LS1tech yeilds some interest until they see the price.
Stay with a proven winner.
I make no secret that being in the Cartek building and seeing:
A block bore/hone machine
A milling machine
Injector fow test bench
A cylinder head flow bench
A valve angle cutter that cuts serdi angles
A cam doctor
A parts oven
About 500 heads
and other things totally absent from other tuners, makes for a great in house development facility that puts 99% of other tuner shops to shame. They dont just buy parts and install them. They make and build most of thier products. Couple that with the willingness to stay on the phone answering any and all questions makes them the first and last choice. Even gears are a single day install using your proven core.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...ight=RHS+heads
There are no real track results but a search for those heads on LS1tech yeilds some interest until they see the price.
Stay with a proven winner.
I make no secret that being in the Cartek building and seeing:
A block bore/hone machine
A milling machine
Injector fow test bench
A cylinder head flow bench
A valve angle cutter that cuts serdi angles
A cam doctor
A parts oven
About 500 heads
and other things totally absent from other tuners, makes for a great in house development facility that puts 99% of other tuner shops to shame. They dont just buy parts and install them. They make and build most of thier products. Couple that with the willingness to stay on the phone answering any and all questions makes them the first and last choice. Even gears are a single day install using your proven core.
05-20-2007, 12:08 PM
#6
Race Director
Thread Starter
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia Bch VA
Posts: 10,516
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06
Spin - you make a great salesman. I'm sold on CARTEK and have been for 2 years looking at their products and the results they attain. I just got off their WEB site. The 3X package looks great. Will most likely do headers, a 4.10 rear, and maybe a clutch while there. I'll visit first to talk direct and develop a rapport before committing.
I'm sold on CARTEK and have been for 2 years looking at their products and the results they attain. I just got off their WEB site. The 3X package looks great. Will most likely do headers, a 4.10 rear, and maybe a clutch while there. I'll visit first to talk direct and develop a rapport before committing.
05-21-2007, 01:05 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
05-21-2007, 11:32 AM
#14
Drifting
These guys are telling you the truth. Speaking from experience. I made 461rwhp/435rwtq from a package consisting of a 224/228/581/588/114LSA's cam,215 ET heads and a FAST 90 manifold.
Mine is a daily driver.Great low end torque, 28 MPG highway. With over 50,000 miles on the clock, I put that motor in my son's 2002 C5, and it's still going strong. Longevity on the street. Presently I have a 427 L92 motor with CNC' ed L92 heads. They also work great, but there on a big inch motor, which is where they belong. As for torque 500 rear wheel works. It also makes over 400 rear wheel at 2600 rpms. L92 heads have there place, but on a 6 liter you had better be looking for top end power , not low end torque, because you woun't find it with L92 heads. That has been my real world experience with both combinations. Don't be blinded by the low entry price. By the time you clean them up and put good duel springs and tit retainers on, the price is up there.
Mine is a daily driver.Great low end torque, 28 MPG highway. With over 50,000 miles on the clock, I put that motor in my son's 2002 C5, and it's still going strong. Longevity on the street. Presently I have a 427 L92 motor with CNC' ed L92 heads. They also work great, but there on a big inch motor, which is where they belong. As for torque 500 rear wheel works. It also makes over 400 rear wheel at 2600 rpms. L92 heads have there place, but on a 6 liter you had better be looking for top end power , not low end torque, because you woun't find it with L92 heads. That has been my real world experience with both combinations. Don't be blinded by the low entry price. By the time you clean them up and put good duel springs and tit retainers on, the price is up there.
05-21-2007, 04:28 PM
#15
Race Director
Thread Starter
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia Bch VA
Posts: 10,516
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06
These guys are telling you the truth. . . I made 461rwhp/435rwtq from a package consisting of a 224/228/581/588/114LSA's cam,215 ET heads and a FAST 90 manifold.
. . . That has been my real world experience with both combinations. Don't be blinded by the low entry price. By the time you clean them up and put good duel springs and tit retainers on, the price is up there.
. . . That has been my real world experience with both combinations. Don't be blinded by the low entry price. By the time you clean them up and put good duel springs and tit retainers on, the price is up there.
I’m quality vice price driven - roger the added $ to get the less expensive heads up to snuff. Those ET Heads are the same as RHS I’m told. ET makes them for RHS. Both have 11 vice 15 deg valve angles which makes them more attractive.
05-21-2007, 05:02 PM
#17
FI has it's pluses, no doubt about it, but having a supercharged TA for a few years and running it at the track a few times, I got sooooo tired of hearing everybody who got beaten say it was all the supercharger. With this C6, and the stock appearing L92/L76 setup, most people will think it's a header or cam only car . Funny, I've went from a loud( set off car alarm exhaust) 547RWHP SC'd TA to a stock sounding, stock appearing C6 that will hopefully run about the same ETs(low-mid 11's)
05-21-2007, 05:31 PM
#18
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 4,477
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
FI has it's pluses, no doubt about it, but having a supercharged TA for a few years and running it at the track a few times, I got sooooo tired of hearing everybody who got beaten say it was all the supercharger. With this C6, and the stock appearing L92/L76 setup, most people will think it's a header or cam only car . Funny, I've went from a loud( set off car alarm exhaust) 547RWHP SC'd TA to a stock sounding, stock appearing C6 that will hopefully run about the same ETs(low-mid 11's)
This is my first experience with a SC. I'm 65 and built the car I wanted when I was 16 but didn't have the money. So, SC, heads, cam, headers, exhaust, competition clutch/flywheel and 11.19@123.7 before being kicked off the track. All my goodies can be found in my sig
05-21-2007, 06:46 PM
#20
Love your avatar, would love to see a full size pic.
This is my first experience with a SC. I'm 65 and built the car I wanted when I was 16 but didn't have the money. So, SC, heads, cam, headers, exhaust, competition clutch/flywheel and 11.19@123.7 before being kicked off the track. All my goodies can be found in my sig
This is my first experience with a SC. I'm 65 and built the car I wanted when I was 16 but didn't have the money. So, SC, heads, cam, headers, exhaust, competition clutch/flywheel and 11.19@123.7 before being kicked off the track. All my goodies can be found in my sig
