STS TWIN TURBO KIT vs APS TWIN TURBO KIT
04-24-2008, 09:11 PM
#21
Safety Car
As to 1/4 mile times, ask in C5 FI. There have been several STS cars deep in the 9s, and other rearmounts much quicker still. They work.
04-24-2008, 09:11 PM
#22
Melting Slicks
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Most setups have a vac line running from the manifold back to the turbo wg. So WG is what the manifold pressure is not what the turbo outlet pressure is....
04-24-2008, 09:15 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
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Not saying it wont work.. clearly it does. It's just not "ideal" and street driving it plain sucked.
I'm confused. Why is it not ideal and why did street driving suck? I've put over 20K miles on a STS kit and have no issues 
04-24-2008, 09:51 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
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Just depends on what you want..
The lag is going to be much worse. If you like stoplight-stoplight I would bet it's pretty disappointing. Most I've seen have to do a full rev-up and launch to get good response out of it down low. That wouldn't be ideal for fun on the street.
On the pressure loss, the actual word is that it looses ~1psi, but the argument is that it cools the air a lot more and that's suppose to compensate.
There's a youtube video of the install, and they drive it around afterwords.
The lag is going to be much worse. If you like stoplight-stoplight I would bet it's pretty disappointing. Most I've seen have to do a full rev-up and launch to get good response out of it down low. That wouldn't be ideal for fun on the street.
On the pressure loss, the actual word is that it looses ~1psi, but the argument is that it cools the air a lot more and that's suppose to compensate.
There's a youtube video of the install, and they drive it around afterwords.
04-25-2008, 09:59 AM
#27
Le Mans Master
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I recently installed another STS kit into a 99 C5. This kit came with upgraded ball bearing turbos and different housings because the owner wanted the ability to supported a forged 418 someday in the near future. This kit also came with their new dual oil pump return system. I took it upon myself to upgrade their hoses and replaced them with better quality aeroquipe high temp FC332 hose which is rated to over 300 degrees.
Also added was a TurboSmart Eboost-2 boost controller, this was setup with two initial boost setpoints, one at 6 psi, and another at 9 psi using methanol. At a push of a button 9 psi was available along with the menthanol injection. The car laid down 525 on a very conservative tune @9 psi. There was really no perceivable lag in the system. As the car was driven, it felt stock before the boost came on, as RPM increased boost came in at about 3500 RPM and rose very quickly to the red line. For the money and ease of installation the STS kit is hard to beat. And it works. One other point is that with the STS kit, the car could be returned to stock by basically removing the turbo system and bolting on the stock exhaust. There is any hacking up the car as with the APS kit.
Also added was a TurboSmart Eboost-2 boost controller, this was setup with two initial boost setpoints, one at 6 psi, and another at 9 psi using methanol. At a push of a button 9 psi was available along with the menthanol injection. The car laid down 525 on a very conservative tune @9 psi. There was really no perceivable lag in the system. As the car was driven, it felt stock before the boost came on, as RPM increased boost came in at about 3500 RPM and rose very quickly to the red line. For the money and ease of installation the STS kit is hard to beat. And it works. One other point is that with the STS kit, the car could be returned to stock by basically removing the turbo system and bolting on the stock exhaust. There is any hacking up the car as with the APS kit.
Last edited by tjwong; 04-25-2008 at 10:02 AM.
04-25-2008, 07:43 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
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I have the APS kit, and installed it myself. Yes it is time consuming, it took me about 100 hours, but I'm slow since I don't have a lift in my garage, I did it with a floor jack and ramps. I wouldn't say you have to hack up the car, but you do drill and tap a hole in the engine block for the oil return, and you have to cut the clutch line to put a new section in so that it clears the left hand turbo, those were the most nerve racking parts of the install. I don't know how the oiling for the STS system is plumbed in, and I don't know if the STS turbos get a water supply, but the APS turbos do get water cooling lines run to them, and their oil is supplied from the oil sending hole in the engine, and there is an electric scavenge pump to help with the oil return. I installed mine last February, and finished in March working nights and weekends on it.
I like the kit, I run a little over 500rwhp with a conservative tune and no Meth. Power comes on quick, and it pulls nice and hard.
I hear the STS kit is nice too, but the STS kit itself is more expensive. If you have someone else install your kit, the APS will probably cost more in the end because of the extra work involved.
Whichever one you pick, I think you'll be happy with it.
I like the kit, I run a little over 500rwhp with a conservative tune and no Meth. Power comes on quick, and it pulls nice and hard.
I hear the STS kit is nice too, but the STS kit itself is more expensive. If you have someone else install your kit, the APS will probably cost more in the end because of the extra work involved.
Whichever one you pick, I think you'll be happy with it.
04-25-2008, 08:53 PM
#29
Racer
Not sure how relevant this is to everyones decision, but I'm always curious about the added weight and weight distribution of the system.
Does anyone happen to know the weight differences in the system. It would SEEM the STS would add a little more weight having to go rear-to-front, but distribute the weight a little more evenly (total hack impression) than the APS.
thanks
Does anyone happen to know the weight differences in the system. It would SEEM the STS would add a little more weight having to go rear-to-front, but distribute the weight a little more evenly (total hack impression) than the APS.
thanks
04-25-2008, 11:53 PM
#30
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... There was really no perceivable lag in the system. As the car was driven, it felt stock before the boost came on, as RPM increased boost came in at about 3500 RPM...
04-26-2008, 04:17 PM
#31
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04-26-2008, 05:23 PM
#32
Safety Car
There is no "ideal" turbo kit for the Corvette, because the car is very tightly packed and wasn't designed for a turbo. Those kits that place the turbos close to the engine have SIGNIFICANT other disadvantages. The STS accepts a placement away from the engine to avoid those disadvantages. Whether the balance of advantages/disadvantages of a particular kit suits a particular owner's goals is a question only they can answer. They can only make that decision, imo, by having a very good understanding of what the tradeoffs are. The theoretical thermodynamics of turbo systems is one thing; the practical implications of installing turbos on a Corvette is quite another.
At the end of the day, STS kits work. They can make just as much power. The owners are happy with them and don't report significant lag. They do considerably less violence to the car's engineering than other kits. They are CARB-legal. For max-effort setups, they can fit considerably larger turbos than other systems. Their power characteristics are different than other kits, that is true. For some uses they're probably better, and for some, worse. But they are no more a "less than ideal" kit, as a generalization, than any other.
04-26-2008, 07:22 PM
#34
Le Mans Master
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No, that's not lag. Lag is the time it takes to make power once the pedal is mashed. What is described here is more like powerband. The STS dosn't make a lot of extra power until the midrange and up, and the faster you go the more extra power it makes. Whether a particular owner wants that kind of powerband or not is another question. Some folks would consider a soft bottom on a 700 rwhp car an advantage. Those that want instant low-rpm punch shouldn't be looking at any Corvette turbo system, they should be looking at a positive-displacement blower.
There is no "ideal" turbo kit for the Corvette, because the car is very tightly packed and wasn't designed for a turbo. Those kits that place the turbos close to the engine have SIGNIFICANT other disadvantages. The STS accepts a placement away from the engine to avoid those disadvantages. Whether the balance of advantages/disadvantages of a particular kit suits a particular owner's goals is a question only they can answer. They can only make that decision, imo, by having a very good understanding of what the tradeoffs are. The theoretical thermodynamics of turbo systems is one thing; the practical implications of installing turbos on a Corvette is quite another.
At the end of the day, STS kits work. They can make just as much power. The owners are happy with them and don't report significant lag. They do considerably less violence to the car's engineering than other kits. They are CARB-legal. For max-effort setups, they can fit considerably larger turbos than other systems. Their power characteristics are different than other kits, that is true. For some uses they're probably better, and for some, worse. But they are no more a "less than ideal" kit, as a generalization, than any other.
There is no "ideal" turbo kit for the Corvette, because the car is very tightly packed and wasn't designed for a turbo. Those kits that place the turbos close to the engine have SIGNIFICANT other disadvantages. The STS accepts a placement away from the engine to avoid those disadvantages. Whether the balance of advantages/disadvantages of a particular kit suits a particular owner's goals is a question only they can answer. They can only make that decision, imo, by having a very good understanding of what the tradeoffs are. The theoretical thermodynamics of turbo systems is one thing; the practical implications of installing turbos on a Corvette is quite another.
At the end of the day, STS kits work. They can make just as much power. The owners are happy with them and don't report significant lag. They do considerably less violence to the car's engineering than other kits. They are CARB-legal. For max-effort setups, they can fit considerably larger turbos than other systems. Their power characteristics are different than other kits, that is true. For some uses they're probably better, and for some, worse. But they are no more a "less than ideal" kit, as a generalization, than any other.
04-26-2008, 08:49 PM
#36
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No, that's not lag. Lag is the time it takes to make power once the pedal is mashed. What is described here is more like powerband. The STS dosn't make a lot of extra power until the midrange and up, and the faster you go the more extra power it makes. Whether a particular owner wants that kind of powerband or not is another question. Some folks would consider a soft bottom on a 700 rwhp car an advantage. Those that want instant low-rpm punch shouldn't be looking at any Corvette turbo system, they should be looking at a positive-displacement blower.
There is no "ideal" turbo kit for the Corvette, because the car is very tightly packed and wasn't designed for a turbo. Those kits that place the turbos close to the engine have SIGNIFICANT other disadvantages. The STS accepts a placement away from the engine to avoid those disadvantages. Whether the balance of advantages/disadvantages of a particular kit suits a particular owner's goals is a question only they can answer. They can only make that decision, imo, by having a very good understanding of what the tradeoffs are. The theoretical thermodynamics of turbo systems is one thing; the practical implications of installing turbos on a Corvette is quite another.
At the end of the day, STS kits work. They can make just as much power. The owners are happy with them and don't report significant lag. They do considerably less violence to the car's engineering than other kits. They are CARB-legal. For max-effort setups, they can fit considerably larger turbos than other systems. Their power characteristics are different than other kits, that is true. For some uses they're probably better, and for some, worse. But they are no more a "less than ideal" kit, as a generalization, than any other.
There is no "ideal" turbo kit for the Corvette, because the car is very tightly packed and wasn't designed for a turbo. Those kits that place the turbos close to the engine have SIGNIFICANT other disadvantages. The STS accepts a placement away from the engine to avoid those disadvantages. Whether the balance of advantages/disadvantages of a particular kit suits a particular owner's goals is a question only they can answer. They can only make that decision, imo, by having a very good understanding of what the tradeoffs are. The theoretical thermodynamics of turbo systems is one thing; the practical implications of installing turbos on a Corvette is quite another.
At the end of the day, STS kits work. They can make just as much power. The owners are happy with them and don't report significant lag. They do considerably less violence to the car's engineering than other kits. They are CARB-legal. For max-effort setups, they can fit considerably larger turbos than other systems. Their power characteristics are different than other kits, that is true. For some uses they're probably better, and for some, worse. But they are no more a "less than ideal" kit, as a generalization, than any other.
What significant disadvantages are you reffering to on the other kits?
04-26-2008, 09:45 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
Definately no issues with lag on the APS kit. I've run this kit over 10k miles with absolutely zero issues/problems. Car would sound and appear very stealth if I didn't swap the OEM exhaust for the 3" APS exhaust.
Last edited by DSOMC6; 04-26-2008 at 09:52 PM.
04-27-2008, 12:37 AM
#38
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With the APS kit I'm putting out 430lbs/tq@ 2500rpms and 525lbs@3500rpm with an A6 tranny tuned for crappy CA 91 octane.
Definately no issues with lag on the APS kit. I've run this kit over 10k miles with absolutely zero issues/problems. Car would sound and appear very stealth if I didn't swap the OEM exhaust for the 3" APS exhaust.
Definately no issues with lag on the APS kit. I've run this kit over 10k miles with absolutely zero issues/problems. Car would sound and appear very stealth if I didn't swap the OEM exhaust for the 3" APS exhaust.
04-27-2008, 12:40 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
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3500rpm is half way through the band... How many instances can you say you will put your foot on the gas (WOT) and not have to wait for the car to get into positive boost. The Prochargers and Paxtons are alreadt at 3+lbs of boost at that point. The APS and other front mounts are spooled up by 2800 rpm. That's the advantage of a real TT.
Dor whoever asked, the DISADVANTAGES of the traditional TT are those of excessive heat and the damage that can do to everything else under the hood, and the higher maintenance.
Dor whoever asked, the DISADVANTAGES of the traditional TT are those of excessive heat and the damage that can do to everything else under the hood, and the higher maintenance.
