k0bun

There seems to be an epidemic going around as of late. Several unfortunate stories of members hydrolocking, or almost hydrolocking their engines. I believe they all had an aftermarket CAI, and most are/were Vararam. (Let's not turn this into a bash against them please) Have there been reports of hydrolocking with any of the other brand CAI? What about stock? Please post the info if you have it.

The incidents usually mention heavy rains and deep puddles. Now we all know that even the stock air intake is at risk of ingesting water under the right circumstances. So it stands to reason that an open shroud, aftermarket CAI will be even more susceptible. The VR, due to its low mounted scoop is apparently the most susceptible to this and since I have one on my C6, I decided to take a look and see if there is something that can be done. After removing and examining the VR it looks like it would be extremely difficult to ingest water. But obviously something is going wrong. It's easy to blame the drivers but we don't fully know the circumstances. Yes caution should be taken when driving in heavy rains or thru puddles but the wake from an adjacent motorist can quickly and without warning cover the nose of the car, even if only for an instant. Still this alone should not cause a hydrolocking case. If the water does manage to fill up the scoop it still has to get past the filter. The VR filter is an exceptional piece and I believe it's heavy duty enough to withstand a quick splash of water making it up the scoop. Here is where we may have a clue. Several members have complained about the seals on their VR units coming loose. Whether this is a manufacturer defect or installer error has yet to be determined because some have this issue and some don't. Is it possible some water is slipping passed them? Even so I can't see it being of any substantial amount. There is not a lot of play of the filter inside the unit so I'm really having a hard time understanding how people are hydrolocking their engines. Is the nose fully submerged under water? The bottom of the scoop sits 10" off the ground on my stock height C6. That's the bottom! Even if water were to reach that point or an inch or so higher, there is still a large unsubmerged area of the scoop. Since air is lighter than water the intake will still be pulling in air. To fully submerge the entire scoop, I would have to be in about 14" of water! I can't imagine people are actually doing this. Possibly on a hard brake when the nose dives forward you may drop to a height to cover the entire scoop but then you would also be off the throttle so the throttle plate would be closed. Assuming you don't immediately stomp the gas after you stop, the car should even itself out and all water should be drained out. But the cases aren't of people in 14" puddles. The reports are of only a few inches. I'm having a very hard time understanding this. I have been thru some heavy rains and a few puddles with my VR unit and haven't had the slightest issue and so have many others. I am not calling anyone out or doubting your claims. You have my sincerest sympathy and I hope you get everything repaired and come back bigger and stronger. However I am very curious as to what the real issue is. Both for myself and the rest of the community. Vararam makes an excellent performing piece and offer some of the best customer service of any product I have purchased. It's a shame that so much controversy has to follow them. However if there is indeed an issue with CAIs in general, it will benefit us all if we can pinpoint exactly what it is.

AEM makes a bypass valve to prevent these issues but unfortunately it does not come in our size. Do to the configuration of the LS series of motors in the C5/6 it is very hard to design something like what they offer for other engine platforms due to no intake piping. I have sent an email to them describing our dilemna and I will also provide them with measurements and dimensions. Hopefully they will be able to come up with something. In the meantime, is there something we can do for ourselves? Short of returning back to stock Would there be any benefit of drilling a few large holes in the bottom area of the scoop, thus allowing any water to immediately drain out the bottom? What about a small screen fitted inside the scoop to help break up any sheets of water? Would either of these two ideas possibly hinder the performance potential of the unit?

All thoughts, ideas, and opinions are welcome. However this is to help educate each other and not for you to flame any members or vendors and get the thread locked.

Discuss.......

SeanMo

Be cautious. It hardly rains in Vegas, but when it does it floods. I have Varram, but always drive through puddles very very slowls and barely any throttle. if it was stock I would drive the same way.

I have also gone high speeds on freeway with varram while raining and no problems.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

I believe that there was an instance of a lost LS2 or LS3 motor with the Callaway Honker a little over a month ago.

Post has been deleted.

There really is no surefire way around it. Its a risk you take if you run a bottom breathing cold air intake.

Indeed, its a risk of modding, and one of its trade offs, and has made my list of "Mods Gone Bad".

You can't always drive a modded car everywhere that you would, and under the same conditions, that you would drive the same car were it stock.

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not08crmanymore

Perhaps the MAKERS of said MODS need to MODIFY the MODS in order to AVOID such distruction!It seems the ones that really do work giving more power are the ones that are most likely to cause or be partly to blame for HYDROLOCK.

danl72

You can stop it by not having an aftermarket CAI. JK.

not08crmanymore

oneblackvette

I have to say it, if you are stupid enough to drive through a foot or more of water with a Corvette, then you get what you have coming.Do you go off road with it too?

Be safe go around large standing water with any vehicle you drive

PCMusicGuy

The problem is that you can't modify a good CAI to make it avoid this situation. If you do, you're left with something that looks and performs exactly like the stock intake. The bottom line is that if you cannot afford to replace it, don't mod it. It may be harsh, but it's the only truth. I do think, hydrolocking with CAIs are completely avoidable, however, if people were more attentive drivers.

dennis50nj

they must be sealing pretty good, ever try to drink a soda threw a straw with a hole in it. it has to be very deep water

AORoads

Has anyone thought to write, phone, or email: K&N, AEM, or VR and ask the question? Here's the question: why don't you design and sell with your intake a hydrolock bypass valve? or, design and sell one FOR the VR, since they can't seem to do so by themselves?

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Some of these poor bastards with bottom breathing CAIs, are driving through deep water and not realizing that it is too deep until they are halfway across it and the engine pops and seizes.

This can happen to anyone, especially at night.

Or while on the highway with other traffic, 18 wheelers, SUVs and such, moving at a pretty good clip, even when its raining hard, and you have your wipers turned up. They are closing in on your rear end, when the water is too deep for you, with a bottom breathing CAI, to make it through at speed,... but is no problem for them to make it through at speed.

One of these 18 wheelers starts pushing you in a rainstorm, (they rarely slowdown much when it rains, it seems) and you are running a CAI, and the water is flying up, and you are rolling through areas of standing water, it can get downright scary. You stall, and he drives right up your rear end.

This was one of the reasons why I was always leery of putting my modded bottom breathing Vettes on the road for long trips where the weather could change at the drop of a hat.

k0bun

I didn't want to quite put it like that, but I agree. The C6 has been out for 4 years and the VR for it almost as long. There have been no reported incidences of hydro up until a couple months ago. There are dozens of CAI equipped C6s out there with no problems. Obviously most of the responsibility is on the drivers but I don't think they are driving thru a foot of water, at least they're not admitting to it if they are. But they are still getting water ingestion. Why? Is the unit really that susceptible? Honestly it doesn't look like it. None of them do. But sh*t happens...obviously.

I agree that if the "MAKERS" of the units did somehow incorporate a bypass or some way of preventing water ingestion it would greatly benefit this community and give drivers a lot more confidence in their product. However it is not necessarily their obligation to do so. No one is forcing anyone to buy/install a CAI. The units themselves are not faulty to a point where suddenly they're going to damage your engine. In order for damage to occur there needs to be a specific set of circumstances that the driver themselves are put into. Circumstances in which we are all warned about not only with aftermarket units but also in the owners manual reffering to the stock air intake. We are all aware of the risks when modding but I also don't think it's fair that someone has to replace their entire engine because of a simple bolt on like a CAI. Unfortunately it is the chance you take.

Like I said in my original post. I have sent an email to AEM explaining the situation. I'm waiting for a reply. However like I mentioned earlier, I believe the compact design of the LS motors/C6 platform will make it extremely difficult to design any type of bypass valve for the CAI available.

Has anyone thought about my idea about drilling some holes in the bottom part of the scoop? It should still draw fresh air in.

C6400hp

To hydrolock the C6 engine you not only have to get it past the CAI and filter, you then have to get it past the throttle body plate. Are these guys going wide open throttle into the water? You would have to be giving it some serious gas to get it past the TB.

glennhl

I'm no expert in hyrdolocking, but I don't think you need much water to hydrolock. If you are running 10.8 to 1 compression then if you have more than 10% water going in, you are in big trouble. If you have a hole in the inlet or even a bypass valve, you need a decent size opening. Look at it this way. If you block the inlet your engine will try to pull a vacuum on the inlet. A perfect vacuum will lift water approximately 34 feet. You only need it to lift about 2 feet, which takes less than 1 psi. So your opening has to be large enough to flow the engine air with less than 1 psi of pressure drop.

However, I'm betting a bypass valve with a 1" diameter opening would probably work for any low throttle settings.

By the way, I thought the reported hydrolock with the Callaway Honker turned out to be false.

GeorgeZNJ

But you might have to go WOT if you're trying to cross the Mississippi river by not using a bridge.. I honestly don't understand how it happens unless you submerge the nose, and then try to go WOT to get out of it. I drove on the parkway two weeks ago during an absolute deluge, as did everyone else that went on the CFNE state to state relay for St Judes with our vettes. No one, not a single car hydrolocked. I've been on track many times in the rain without a problem.

k0bun

I don't see how any significant amount of water is getting past the filter. Even with these large sheets of water that people talk about. The water has to hit the front of the car, breaking up. Past the grill, breaking up even more, then up the scoop and thru the filter. It's not as if the entire sheet of water is being directly fed into the intake.

But clearly hydrolocking is occuring so we have to address why.

jimfountain

Having experienced hydrolock I can tell you from experience it doesn't take deep water to do get into trouble. I drove an '64 International Scout many years (think jeep if you don't know what a Scout is/was) and have some experience in off roading and deep water. On occasion I would drive along the edge of a lake to get to a very nice scuba spot. Water would be a couple of feet deep but if you kept your speed up in 2nd gear low range (giving you 5-8 MPH at 2-3K RPM) you could create a "bow wave" - pushing water with the front bumper and causing the engine compartment to experience less water depth ... kind of like a boat wake. I never had a problem when I was intentional fording deep water. If you watch pictures of off roading and deep water I am sure you have seen a "bow wave."

But while crossing a few inches of water in a 96 Impala SS with the LT1 engine and an Evergreen cold air intake I hydrolocked my LT1. The SS had an air dam that was just a few inches off the ground.... very much like my 07 C6 has. The Evergreen CAI pulled air from behind the bumper and from the left front fender area. The problem was the "bow wave" that built up when I went too fast. I had crossed this particular low water crossing successfully 2-3 minutes earlier but just a little farther down road the water was 5-6 inches deep. I know I could not risk that and I turned. When I got back to the low water crossing I just didn't slow down enough the second time. The air dam pushed the water into a wave... and locked the LT1.

I have a Varaam on my C6 and I figure just a few inches is all it takes.. at the right speed. I am very careful around water as you might imagine... rain is OK... just avoid deep puddles at speed. I think you have to trade off the benefits of a CAI like Varaam with the risks presented by puddles. Even after a hydrolock.. I still think it is worth it.. you just have to be cautious.

And the rest of the story: On the SS I pulled the plugs, CAI, MAF sensor and cranked it. Shot water big time out of 4 cylinders... dribbled water out of the others. Put it back together but wouldn't start. Knowing I needed to "choke it" and that with the fuel injection every time you start cranking you get a "shot" of fuel I did about 15 off-on-2 second crank-off cycles. Then I held the gas to the floor and cranked it. Got it running enough to limp home... with every idiot and engine warning light lit At home I pulled off the positive battery terminal, replaced all the plugs and put a spotlight on the optispark distributor. Next day - no codes. Ran great. Put another 40K miles on it before selling it just a few weeks ago.

1bdasvt

Frankie,,,how You doing Bro!


DAMN,,,,YOU SURE DO TYPE ALOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

k0bun

Hey George what's up?

Haha...yeah I usually don't say much but sometimes when my mind get's going the thoughts just keep coming out.

When you getting that beast to the track?!

k0bun

Interesting. Ok so possibly the pair dam is art of the problem? The air dam on the C6 is behind the scoop and the scoop faces forward. If the air dam were to cause a wake or "bow-wave" as you call it. It seems to me it would push the water up and to the side, behind the scoop. If you look at where the scoop is located you will see that none of the opening is exposed from underneath the car. The water has to come from the front.