TransGo 6L80E transmission research
05-20-2009, 11:12 PM
#22
Pro
I would love to participate in anything that would make my 08 A6 better. I've had issues since day one. Sloppy shifting, hunting and banging when shifting, etc.
Unfortunately I'm sure I won't be a good candidate since Im waaaay over in Dallas.
Unfortunately I'm sure I won't be a good candidate since Im waaaay over in Dallas.
05-20-2009, 11:18 PM
#23
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Thank you, Mark
05-21-2009, 02:02 AM
#25
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Hi Mark I have been using TransGo products since 1978, jeez I am dating myself! I have always had great results using your products and have installed many 4L80e and 4L60e kits. And whenever I had a problem I have always got excellent support from your tech people, and I have to say I never got put on hold more than a minute or two, and help was always concise and accurate!
05-21-2009, 02:10 AM
#26
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TransGo
Hi Mark I have been using TransGo products since 1978, jeez I am dating myself! I have always had great results using your products and have installed many 4L80e and 4L60e kits. And whenever I had a problem I have always got excellent support from your tech people, and I have to say I never got put on hold more than a minute or two, and help was always concise and accurate!
Thank you!
Mark
05-21-2009, 07:07 AM
#27
Melting Slicks
Welcome aboard and glad to see someone working to better the A6. Any plans to do a heavy duty build? (650+ TQ output)? FWIW, I'm curious to hear about the "clutch failures" in 2nd on these trans. We've read about the seals that leak, causing a "flare" in 2nd and sometimes 3rd and 4th.
Once warmed up she shifts and acts fine.
any info on this would be nice, car has 20,000k miles.
05-21-2009, 10:47 AM
#28
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cold shift problems
Doing some research I hear that GM has some bulletin
that pertains to this problem. I spoke with local trans shop owner who has one of these cars. He claims there is some revised seals that GM installed that corrected this. I'm seeking bulletin data & #
I will keep the forum posted.
Thank you, Mark
05-21-2009, 11:35 AM
#30
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2nd clutch failure
1) Non Synchronous: This means when the trans makes gear change the previous gear is provided by a mechanical one way clutch. Also referred to as a sprag or over run clutch. As soon as the clutch or band (next gear that is coming on) has enough holding capacity to put the trans in NEXT gear the one way clutch will free wheel or over run. These are always the cleanest shifts.
2) Synchronous: This means as one friction component is applying (up or downshifting) the other friction component is releasing. They are timed during release & apply and timing is critical to friction/clutch plate durability.
The 1-2 shift on 6L80 is synchronous.
Friction plate failure happens due to poor shift timing, Not enough capacity to hold torque, line pressure response to throttle opening out of synch or a clutch partially applied when it should be off.
Frictions generally do not wear out.
Mark
05-21-2009, 11:36 AM
#31
Melting Slicks
All this data coming in is great!
Doing some research I hear that GM has some bulletin
that pertains to this problem. I spoke with local trans shop owner who has one of these cars. He claims there is some revised seals that GM installed that corrected this. I'm seeking bulletin data & #
I will keep the forum posted.
Thank you, Mark
Doing some research I hear that GM has some bulletin
that pertains to this problem. I spoke with local trans shop owner who has one of these cars. He claims there is some revised seals that GM installed that corrected this. I'm seeking bulletin data & #
I will keep the forum posted.
Thank you, Mark
thanks for the help, I can't get Gm to cover it, but I might be able to do it myself.
thanks
Phil
05-21-2009, 11:48 AM
#32
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05-21-2009, 02:33 PM
#33
There are two types of shifts that any automatic trans can have.
1) Non Synchronous: This means when the trans makes gear change the previous gear is provided by a mechanical one way clutch. Also referred to as a sprag or over run clutch. As soon as the clutch or band (next gear that is coming on) has enough holding capacity to put the trans in NEXT gear the one way clutch will free wheel or over run. These are always the cleanest shifts.
2) Synchronous: This means as one friction component is applying (up or downshifting) the other friction component is releasing. They are timed during release & apply and timing is critical to friction/clutch plate durability.
The 1-2 shift on 6L80 is synchronous.
Friction plate failure happens due to poor shift timing, Not enough capacity to hold torque, line pressure response to throttle opening out of synch or a clutch partially applied when it should be off.
Frictions generally do not wear out.
Mark
1) Non Synchronous: This means when the trans makes gear change the previous gear is provided by a mechanical one way clutch. Also referred to as a sprag or over run clutch. As soon as the clutch or band (next gear that is coming on) has enough holding capacity to put the trans in NEXT gear the one way clutch will free wheel or over run. These are always the cleanest shifts.
2) Synchronous: This means as one friction component is applying (up or downshifting) the other friction component is releasing. They are timed during release & apply and timing is critical to friction/clutch plate durability.
The 1-2 shift on 6L80 is synchronous.
Friction plate failure happens due to poor shift timing, Not enough capacity to hold torque, line pressure response to throttle opening out of synch or a clutch partially applied when it should be off.
Frictions generally do not wear out.
Mark
The 1-2 shift is from the sprag holding 1st to the 2nd gear clutch applying causing the sprag to over-run which makes it non-synchronous. I'm also wondering how the steel friction plates fail while the friction discs don't wear out. Was this just a test to see who's paying attention?
We may just be having a terminology disconnect on the friction plates/discs. I refer to the steels as friction plates, the composites as friction discs, and the whole assembly as a clutch...it looks like maybe you refer to the steels interchangably as friction plates or simply frictions, the composites as clutches, and the whole assembly as the "friction component". If it's the steel friction plate failing, what type of failure mechanism is occurring? Thanks again for taking the time to answer questions and working on strengthening the 6L80/90.
Internet forums are great, but they do have some drawbacks...it's essential to be on the same page when it comes to nomenclature. I've seen it too many times when two people were in violent agreement.
05-21-2009, 03:01 PM
#34
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Shifting & frictions
Now you really have me confused...not that it takes much. The 1-2 shift is from the sprag holding 1st to the 2nd gear clutch applying causing the sprag to over-run which makes it non-synchronous. I'm also wondering how the steel friction plates fail while the friction discs don't wear out. Was this just a test to see who's paying attention?
We may just be having a terminology disconnect on the friction plates/discs. I refer to the steels as friction plates, the composites as friction discs, and the whole assembly as a clutch...it looks like maybe you refer to the steels interchangably as friction plates or simply frictions, the composites as clutches, and the whole assembly as the "friction component". If it's the steel friction plate failing, what type of failure mechanism is occurring? Thanks again for taking the time to answer questions and working on strengthening the 6L80/90.
Internet forums are great, but they do have some drawbacks...it's essential to be on the same page when it comes to nomenclature. I've seen it too many times when two people were in violent agreement.
The 1-2 shift is from the sprag holding 1st to the 2nd gear clutch applying causing the sprag to over-run which makes it non-synchronous. I'm also wondering how the steel friction plates fail while the friction discs don't wear out. Was this just a test to see who's paying attention?We may just be having a terminology disconnect on the friction plates/discs. I refer to the steels as friction plates, the composites as friction discs, and the whole assembly as a clutch...it looks like maybe you refer to the steels interchangably as friction plates or simply frictions, the composites as clutches, and the whole assembly as the "friction component". If it's the steel friction plate failing, what type of failure mechanism is occurring? Thanks again for taking the time to answer questions and working on strengthening the 6L80/90.
Internet forums are great, but they do have some drawbacks...it's essential to be on the same page when it comes to nomenclature. I've seen it too many times when two people were in violent agreement.
Just to be accurate & not confuse you more. Most transmissions have friction lining bonded to both sides of the steel core (the friction plate steel core is not the same as the steels) This trans uses a one sided friction plate. The bottom line is the friction or clutch plates if it's 1 sided or dual all the principles apply.
The 2nd friction or composite material is failing. At this time we do not know why. It's either to much torque for the amount of friction area the trans has, Or the partially applied when it should be OFF..there are many other causes of friction plate failure. 99 percent of the time they fail/burn out due to a malfuntion in the control system. They don't wear out.....
05-21-2009, 06:16 PM
#35
Safety Car
Good to hear a great brand like TransGo wants to tackle the 6L tanny issues. My biggest complaint is the flaring. It's been getting more obvious now with 27k miles. Doesn't matter whether it's cold or warm but slow speed shifts between 2-3 has apparent flaring. Most likely it's just a line pressure drop. Need to bring it to the dealer and get them to do the software upgrades under warranty.
05-21-2009, 06:35 PM
#36
Team Owner
So then the A-4 in the 2005 Corvette is more reliable than the A-6?
Hello forum members!
My name is Mark,
I am a R & D technician for TransGo in So El Monte CA. I'm sure that some of you are aware of our products. For those who are not, since 1959 we have been the pioneering leader in engineering & development of Automatic transmission Re Programming Kits. Our primary focus with any transmission is isolate & correct the causes of complaints & premature failure.
At the current time we are looking into the problems that the 6L80E trans is having with 2nd gear. The 6L80E/A6 is the 6 speed auto in the 2006 & later Corvettes. I would also like to hear the drive ability concerns/complaints that you are having. Any data & info you can provide is of great benefit towards this research.
We are searching for Corvette owners who would be willing to participate in our research program. There is no cost to you.
For more information you can contact me at..xcamapuccinelli@yahoo.com
I hope to hear from you soon,
Mark
PS I will be glad to provide technical assistance on your automatic transmissions.
If you contact me @ this link please put a subject title related to your question or problem. I'm getting floods of emails & it will help me keep it organized. Also include your first name so that I may address you properly. I'm still figuring out all the ins & out of the forum. I want to respond to all your questions, If I do not respond to it send a reminder to my email. I would like all questions posted on the forum so that everyone is in the know.
My name is Mark,
I am a R & D technician for TransGo in So El Monte CA. I'm sure that some of you are aware of our products. For those who are not, since 1959 we have been the pioneering leader in engineering & development of Automatic transmission Re Programming Kits. Our primary focus with any transmission is isolate & correct the causes of complaints & premature failure.
At the current time we are looking into the problems that the 6L80E trans is having with 2nd gear. The 6L80E/A6 is the 6 speed auto in the 2006 & later Corvettes. I would also like to hear the drive ability concerns/complaints that you are having. Any data & info you can provide is of great benefit towards this research.
We are searching for Corvette owners who would be willing to participate in our research program. There is no cost to you.
For more information you can contact me at..xcamapuccinelli@yahoo.com
I hope to hear from you soon,
Mark
PS I will be glad to provide technical assistance on your automatic transmissions.
If you contact me @ this link please put a subject title related to your question or problem. I'm getting floods of emails & it will help me keep it organized. Also include your first name so that I may address you properly. I'm still figuring out all the ins & out of the forum. I want to respond to all your questions, If I do not respond to it send a reminder to my email. I would like all questions posted on the forum so that everyone is in the know.
That was one of the reasons I got the 2005 model as it was the only year of the 4 spd. auto trans (the 4L60E?) which had a great reputation and history of reliability.
05-21-2009, 06:49 PM
#37
Friction material (composite) is bonded to a steel core, I refer to this as a friction or clutch plate. Between them is a plain steel plate which are referred to as steels.
Just to be accurate & not confuse you more. Most transmissions have friction lining bonded to both sides of the steel core (the friction plate steel core is not the same as the steels) This trans uses a one sided friction plate. The bottom line is the friction or clutch plates if it's 1 sided or dual all the principles apply.
The 2nd friction or composite material is failing. At this time we do not know why. It's either to much torque for the amount of friction area the trans has, Or the partially applied when it should be OFF..there are many other causes of friction plate failure. 99 percent of the time they fail/burn out due to a malfuntion in the control system. They don't wear out.....
Just to be accurate & not confuse you more. Most transmissions have friction lining bonded to both sides of the steel core (the friction plate steel core is not the same as the steels) This trans uses a one sided friction plate. The bottom line is the friction or clutch plates if it's 1 sided or dual all the principles apply.
The 2nd friction or composite material is failing. At this time we do not know why. It's either to much torque for the amount of friction area the trans has, Or the partially applied when it should be OFF..there are many other causes of friction plate failure. 99 percent of the time they fail/burn out due to a malfuntion in the control system. They don't wear out.....
What about the synchronous/non-synchronous 1-2 shift? Doesn't the 1st gear sprag make it a non-synchronous shift?
05-21-2009, 07:16 PM
#40
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OK, we were on the same page on the clutch components just using different terminology. Do you think the clutch plates are failing because the 1-2 shift has the largest RPM drop of any of the shifts? Or is it maybe having to accelerate the output planet carrier from zero RPM when in 1st gear to the output shaft RPM as the low-reverse clutch releases and the 2-6 clutch pack applies when the shift to 2nd occurs? (It's a little hard to see the drawing I have, but that's how the transfer looks to me.)
What about the synchronous/non-synchronous 1-2 shift? Doesn't the 1st gear sprag make it a non-synchronous shift?
What about the synchronous/non-synchronous 1-2 shift? Doesn't the 1st gear sprag make it a non-synchronous shift?
The ratio change is wide, I highly doubt that's a problem.