icetre

Please don't judge me by my post count. I've been a longtime lurker here, and also at ls2gto and ls1 forums.

Sorry this is long and rambly, but it's worth it.


So I've had the issue with 'Service Active Handling' and I'm not taking the risk of my car locking the brakes up for no particular reason.

BTW: my symptoms of getting the 'Service Active Handling' error on the DIC seemed to be very much linked to cold. It wouldn't happen unless it was 55 deg or under. I finally had it happen on the way to work and to get the dealer to do something about it, I showed up 1/2 hour before they opened once I got the error and I didn't turn the car off until they read the code off obdII. Anyways I digress!

I also absolutely hate Traction Control in *any* vehicle. If I break the wheels free even the slightest bit in the vette, it seems like the car cuts the gas for 2-4 seconds. Considering I'm used to being able to accelerate very quickly, this could lead me into getting into an serious accident.

So I set my mind to trying to figure out how to defeat the active control systems on the Corvette. Several ideas went through my head before it finally dawned on me: If you press the button for 6 seconds it turns the active control off right? Well, what happens if you permanently pressed this button via a short circuit?

What happens is AH/TC is turned off at the start of the vehicle and as far as I can tell it never comes back on again.

So far (other than your lack of ability to drive ending you up in a ditch) there seems to be no real issues with defeating it. A message pops up on the DIC, but if you hit reset it goes away.

So how to do it permanantly? If you pull the harness off the button and look at it, there's one pin that doesn't have a wire in it. The pin closest to the empty pin is the first of 2 wires to short. the second is the one catty-corner to that one, (ie directly across from the empty pin)

I just stuck a wire into both of the pins and threw some painters tape around the harness just in case. It's temporary at the moment, At some point I'll do it right and solider the wires together or perhaps wire a defeat switch. (or now that I think about it, seems like it'd be easiest to wire a toggle switch to short it for you, and leave the button intact so you can turn the defeat off/on at will while still being able to control AH/TC when enabled.)

Anyways, if you short those two wires AH/TC will be turned off at startup. I'm not 100% sure that in the event of an error the car won't fight through it and turn the systems back on, but I can tell you I haven't seen hind nor hair of AH or TC since I've done the mod.

Anyways, that's it.

DISCLAIMER: Be careful, you don't want to end up dead! The babysitters are there for a good reason! 430hp is a lot of power, and if you're not careful you'll be wrapped around a telephone pole, or worse. Remember to use care when modulating the gas in the rain or other slippery conditions. This kind of power can get away from you very quickly.

FloydSummerOf68

My car has no problems continuing to spin the wheels with TC active ...it's very non intrusive on my car and wont kick on until severe traction loss in a straight line.

icetre

If you had asked me when I had the Goat, I'da agreed with you, but my experience in this car is that it is very intrusive.

I've had it kick in going around a corner, straight line, and everything in between. I've even had it once kick in when the car chirped in third.

Honestly I think GM's USA's implementation of these systems is incredibly weak, bordering on dangerous.

goatts

You don't want to turn off AH permanently. It works extremely well. You always want it on for street use. You would need years of road racing experience under your belt with lightning reflexes to have the skills to maintain control under emergency manuevers without AH. TC does very little but AH can save you butt.

BEZ06

Do you have a compressor?

If so, let me ask you to do an experiment.

If you lose tire pressure while driving and pressure gets down to 23 psi you'll get a DIC message.

If you were running in Comp mode or with AH off completely, AH will come back full on.

I assume you have runflats, so if you have a compressor and don't mind doing it, try letting air out of a tire down to about 20 psi and see what your AH tries to do when you drive around the block.

You should have a message about low tire pressure, but I wonder if you'll get messages about AH trying to come back on, or if the car will do anything weird.

TIA,

Bob

filmjay

Are you sure it's deactivated? Because when you turn it off, then turn the car off, it resets itself.

hmmmm.....you've got my wheels turning though...I wonder what regulating the voltage would do. Wonder if it might increase or decrease the sensitivity. (placing a dimmer pot in place of a switch.)

icetre

Yes it's off, I know because when you turn it back on, the car whines that AH and TC is off.

As far as AH, sorry I'll take my chances. I've already had the car hitting the brakes for no apparent reason. Sure it didn't lock them, but who's to say next time it doesn't lock the left hand brake only while I'm doing 70 on an overpass in the left hand lane.

I did fine in the GTO with no AH; and it's has similar specs. Yeah I know that's a GT class vs a sportscar, but it's close enough that I'm sure I can handle it. So far AH and TC have only come close to killing me, I have yet to have a situation where I said to myself, "whew! Glad TC kicked in, or I would have been toast!"

Maybe it's because I've never had these systems to rely on.

Adam

icetre

No compressor, but I live literally around the corner from a gas station with a air machine. I'll give her a shot today.

No I pulled the run-craps off. Best decision I've ever made in regards to the car thus far.

20psi though isn't gonna damage the sidewalls if I run around the block to test and fill 'em back up.

Adam

Larry/car

I should have the traction control/active handling system checked. Your system seems to sensitive. I can over power my traction control any time if the car is motion just by adding excessive power. My active handling doesn't activate until the car starts to slide, you can feel the car start to loose traction, then the active handling will start to correct. If you want to eliminate all the electronics, might as well purchase a late model C4.

icetre

I don't think you understand. I wanted it defeated because of the fact that the system fails catastrophically. It's annoying that if the tires slip going around a corner TC kicks in and kills the gas.

Good luck overpowering TC when the car cuts the gas.

TC is annoying and getting rid of it is a benefit, but the real deal here is that I really don't like the idea that because my car might have a short, or a loose or frayed wire and lock up the brakes.

Forgive me if I don't feel like having a significantly flawed system 'protecting' me by pushing me down the stairs.

So honestly screw it. I'd rather have nothing.

I didn't buy the car because I could recklessly and skilllessly drive the car like a freakin' maniac. I know how to drive. I know how to recover from a condition much better. My systems and sensors are much more in both number and sensitivity, that I feel much more confident handling the vehicle myself.

Honestly the fact that AH can't recover from a failed sensor reliably is absolutely insane. It's a pure spectacle of shame that GM should honestly be very wary of.

I think my point here, is that I really question why the responders on this thread that trust a very stupid system rather than his own ability to drive.

Adam

Maxx Schlick

It is not a "fail safe system" it is a fail extremly unsafe system.
I had your same woes for a long time (brake lock ups). It turned out to be a faulty steering position sensor that was causing my problem. After it was replaced everything has been fine.

I run the car with everything active on the street, since I never spin the tires or do any drifting thru intersections. So far it hasen't tried to kill me like it used to.

I turn off TC at the drag strip.
I turn off all systems at the track.

Here is a link from a long time ago when a bunch of us were going around and around about this subject.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...lfunction.html

PowerLabs

Something is really wrong with your car. I've driven several Corvettes and always been VERY impressed by how effective the system is; a properly operating T/C system will NOT step in untill you get real tire spin (not just a chirp) and when it does it will first pull timing, allowing the car to rehook and then backing off. The only time I've seen it kill the throttle is when you get violent wheelspin such as with a clutch dump or spinning on a wet surface.
So, my best advice for you, is FIX IT. Do you have stock sized tires? It is possible tha you are running different diameters making the system think your tires are always slipping.

THAT SAID, the answer to your question is that yes, within the tuning tables of HP Tuners or EFI Live you can disable virtually all of your traction control system's authority over the car: no throttle manipulation, no fuel cut no ignition timing manipulation, no torque management, etc etc. The body control module may still attempt to modulate the rear brakes if it senses wheelspin, but this is completely ineffective. I ran my supercharged C6 like that for a year and I could spin donuts all day long with T/C ON. Nowadays I run it with no torque management but traction control has authority over SOME (20%) throttle and SOME (up to 3 degrees I think) timing. This allows the system to re-hook the car when it just barely loses traction. It works well enough that I am consistently faster autocrossing the car with it on rather than with it off...
As far as disabling Active Handling, you can't do it by gluing the button down, but there may be a hardware way of doing it. Unplugging one of the A/H sensors would be one sure way to do it (unplug the yaw sensor or te G sensor in the car?), there may also be a fuse for the BCM?

dennis50nj

i tried that years ago and couldnt powerbrake the car to heat the tires, the ah and tc is unsafe it almost wrecked my car, i turn it off everytime i start it, and never had another problem

Robls6

I agree. My 07 with 570rwhp will spin the tires as much as I want without turning off the TC or AH. I think it gets overpowered so fast that it just lets the wheels spin.

sircrashalot

I don't want this post to be misinterpreted by anyone as knocking the driving skills of those who feel that tc/ah is a good system, but I am 100% with you!
It drives me nuts.... on a decreasing radius ramp (closed course of course) when I go back to throttle as I begin to exit I WANT a little bit of rotation from the rear, and a little bit of spin. I have had AH kick in in that situation, and it nearly wrecked me. sometimes allowing some yaw from the back is beneficial. Sometimes its a bit undesired and a bit of a surprise. I'd rather deal with BOTH using fine throttle and steering/countersteering inputs than let a computer that doesn't see the road or where I am trying to put the car take over!

Sometimes (closed course again), allowing the rear to rotate significantly is FUN...and one of the reasons I bought the car. I also want to practice controlling that as I have in every other vehicle I have ever owned, and learn the signals my car sends when grip is about to fail, as well as the signals that it is about to return, so that I can also control the car in these situations using throttle and steering input.

I also have had AH/TC completely dump throttle and apply brake when in a drift or fishtail resulting in the car not accelerating when I needed it to, and ending up with sudden onset of full grip, suddenly, when pointed in a direction that wasn't what I intended at to be at the end of the slide or fishtail I was controlling quite well and with much more finesse than the AH/TC. Really, the only 'hairy' moments I have had in my car have been from trying to save it from the stupid drastic input changes brought on by AH/TC.

I hate ABS too.

I agree that there would be many many more Vettes in junk yards without this stuff, but being able to turn it all off is a must. ESPECIALLY since the system seems pretty prone to failure- I can't even imagine how pissed I'd be if my car started pulsing brakes on me for no apparent reason!

I do like TC it in the rain though....and for when I don't feel like thinking about driving!

Larry/car

When ABS was first introduced it left a lot to be desired. A good driver could stop faster than the ABS could. However the system has been perfected where you cannot out perform it. This was demonstrated at the Spring Mountain Performance Driving School I attended.

PowerLabs

Dennis:
I think the system is unsafe in your car because you run tires it was never designed for? I know it will refuse to work if the size difference between the rear and the front tires is off by more than 3%...

I've got about 63,000 miles driving my C6. I drove it coast-to-coast twice, I've had it down the drag strip multiple occasions, I've driven it to 203 miles an hour, I've had it past 170MPH more times than I can count. I can attest to the following:

1- The system has failed me exactly ONCE. I don't know why it did it, but in 2 and a half years and 63000 miles, ONE SINGLE TIME I did a power slide, and when I tried to correct the slide the Active Handling locked up one front tire and pulled the car to the right untill it came to a complete stop. I held on to the wheel and stopped it. It never did it again before or since.

2- The system WORKS. So well in fact that I can not drive the car as fast with it off in an autocross. That is because when you slide, you lose time; A/H keeps my lines cleaner because it doesn't let the car slide around all over the place...

I understand a lot of people are afraid of it, but these systems work so well that they are actually mandatory on new vehicles... Remember people also feared seatbelts, airbags, and ABS when those safety features were first introduced...
I'd say most of the issues associated with A/H and T/C are from users modifying their cars, mostly via running non OEM tires.

dennis50nj

Hi Sam, i know all you say is true, it did it on mine with the stock tires and rims, i use the tire calculator to stay within the 3%,

i bought the c6 for my wife. she has done 2 different 720 in it coming home from bingo so i had to buy her another car and i got stuck with the c6, most people just cant hang on and let the car do its thing, a lot of correcting and back and fourth between man and machine, like when abs first came out, but what happens in the 1 time you just hang on and the system fails, that's why gm finally did a recall because of so many problems, i turn mine off and go strait as an arrow down the 1/4 i have seen others hit the wall for no apparent reason,

PCMusicGuy

Overall, I think TC/AH is pretty good but I think it intervenes sometimes when it shouldn't and it does so in an unnatural manner compared to manually keeping control the old fashion way.

OP, thanks for letting us know your results. I just might have to wire in an additional switch to the TC/AH switch now.

CC Rider

Right on!