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Old 04-18-2011, 01:39 PM   #1
99c54me
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Default How to drop the front cradle

Can someone post? I have a leak at the oil pan gasket and appears I need to drop the cradle to R&R the pan.

I searched 1st - no good luck
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:26 PM   #2
carlrx7
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hmm, start with the upper control arms, top shock mount, then release some hard brake lines. then the four craddle bolts, not going to be easy because you might need a way to support the engine, id use a cherry picker. good luck.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:27 PM   #3
99c54me
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Yea, supporting the engine was the thing that had me stumped.

Any other suggestions on how to support the engine while dropping the cradle?
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:48 PM   #4
timd38
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Don't laugh, but what if you supported it by putting a support that holds the engine up via the shock mounts.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:04 AM   #5
taken19
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You could consider placing cut 2x4's across the bottom of the oil pan until the cradle is out of the way. Another good spot is where the block and bell housing meet or somewhere back on the torque tube. Once the cradle is removed, move the supports to the engine mount area...

After snealing a peak on my car (currently on stands for H/C swap), it looks like you might get away with only removing the transversa leaf spring and a couple other minor thingg. You will have ro remove a couple bell housing bolts, but I bet you could get the pan out of there without dropping the cradle.

Shoot me a PM with your number and we can talk through what I see if you like.

Sean
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:36 AM   #6
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Just looked in Mitchel Manuals. No mention of dropping front cradle to change oil pan gasket. The only cautions in the procedure is proper torque (108 in-lb then 18 ft-lb) and applying sealant to the bottom of the fromt engine cover. You may have to rotate the pan during removal to clear oil pump and pick up tube. It only mentions putting sealant on the corners, but I would run RTV the entire length of the engine cover just to be safe.

The oil pan is structural in the vette (bell housing bolts to it), so make sure everything lines up well prior to torquing bolts.

Good luck and I hope this helps your job get easier.

Sean

P.S. one more note. The book says that the new gasket doesn't have to be riveted to the pan. May make removing the old one tough...
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:56 PM   #7
CMY SIX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99c54me View Post
Yea, supporting the engine was the thing that had me stumped.

Any other suggestions on how to support the engine while dropping the cradle?
in the Helms manual it speaks of supporting the engine WHENEVER the torque tube is disconnected or the transaxle is, if you don't the back of the engine drops and hits the fire wall and WA-LA we have more problems, I just know that some MOD will probably tell me I'm rude {and ban me, again} for telling you this.... If your going to try to do this kind of work and your car, you should have a good set of manuals, A competant mechanic would,
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:55 PM   #8
taken19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMY SIX View Post
in the Helms manual it speaks of supporting the engine WHENEVER the torque tube is disconnected or the transaxle is, if you don't the back of the engine drops and hits the fire wall and WA-LA we have more problems, I just know that some MOD will probably tell me I'm rude {and ban me, again} for telling you this.... If your going to try to do this kind of work and your car, you should have a good set of manuals, A competant mechanic would,
I agree with that statement completely. When I rebuilt my TT, it was a delicate balance of letting the engine pivot back vs. getting the rear cradle out.

Mitchel Manual (and my observations earlier today) seem to think that you don't need to drop the front cradel. Since you are removing the bottom 2 or 3 bolts that hold the bell housing to the engine, I would support the TT housing with some support - just get it snug prior to removing the bell housing bolts. An old school scissor jack should work just fine to avoid putting any unnecessary stress on the remaining bolts.

My $0.02

Sean
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:05 PM   #9
Charley Hoyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taken19 View Post
You could consider placing cut 2x4's across the bottom of the oil pan until the cradle is out of the way.
FYI, The shop manual specificaly says not to do this.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley Hoyt View Post
FYI, The shop manual specificaly says not to do this.
Charley, that's why I immediately corrected myself in the post a few minutes later. Placing a 2x4 under the oil pan is about the only way you can support the motor while removing the torque tube, so I personally know it can be done. I definately didn't feel comfortable with this setup, but the DIY's I read as indicated that this was the best way to ensure the engine didn't damage the firewall when R/R the torque tube. Can't remember what mitchel Manual said, but I don't remember reading a caution not to do this (although I could be wrong - I have been many times in the past).

Thanks for the backup.

Sean
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:02 PM   #11
Bill Dearborn
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Here is the SM Procedure for replacing the gasket. My car is getting this done at the dealer. Hopefully, parts will be in by Thursday and finished by Friday afternoon. Without the special engine brackets it looks like a sky hook is required to hold the engine.

Bill

Oil Pan Replacement (w/o LS9)
Removal Procedure
1. Remove the front suspension crossmember. Refer to Front Suspension Crossmember Replacement.
(Front Suspension Crossmember Replacement (With Z06 or ZR1)
Special Tools

J 28467-B Universal Engine Support Fixture

J 33432-A Transverse Spring Compressor


J 41803 Engine Support Fixture





Removal Procedure
2. Remove the generator from the accessory mounting bracket. Refer to Generator Replacement.
3. Install J 41803 and J 28467-B and support the engine.
4. Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle.
5. Remove the tire and wheel assemblies. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation.
6. Remove the steering linkage outer tie rod end stud nuts (3). Refer to Steering Linkage Outer Tie Rod Replacement.
7. Remove the stabilizer shaft from the vehicle. Refer to Stabilizer Shaft Replacement.
8. Disconnect the intermediate shaft lower coupling from the steering gear. Refer to Intermediate Steering Shaft Replacement.
9. Remove the bolts from the electronic brake control module (EBCM)/brake pressure modulator valve (BPMV) bracket. Refer to Brake Pressure Modulator Valve Bracket Replacement.
10. Support and reposition the EBCM/BPMV and bracket away from the crossmember.
11. Remove the power steering gear mounting bolts.
12. Remove the power steering fluid cooler from the crossmember.
13. Lift the power steering gear off of the crossmember and support.
14. Remove the engine oil line hose bracket from the crossmember.
15. Using the J 33432-A , remove the transverse spring from the vehicle. Refer to Front Transverse Spring Replacement.
16. Disconnect the lower shock absorber bolts from the lower control arms.
17. Remove the lower control arm bolts from the crossmember.
18. Place a transmission jack under the crossmember.
19. Remove the engine mount lower nuts. Refer to the following procedures:

Engine Mount Replacement - Left Side


Engine Mount Replacement - Right Side
20. Disconnect the wheel speed sensor wiring harness (1) from the crossmember.
21. Disconnect the electrical harness from the clips on the crossmember.
22. Disconnect the brake pipe from the clips on the crossmember.
23. Remove the crossmember mounting nuts.
24. Lower the crossmember out of the vehicle by removing the transmission jack from under the crossmember. )

4. Remove the starter motor assembly. Refer to Starter Motor Replacement.
Remove the right transmission cover.

  • Disconnect the engine oil level sensor electrical connector (2).
  • If equipped, remove the transmission lines from the rear of the oil pan.
  • If equipped, remove the transmission lines from the front of the oil pan.
  • Remove the 2 oil cooler bolts (1) and separate the oil cooler (2) from the oil pan. Discard the oil cooler seal (3).
  • Remove the rear oil pan bolts (2).
  • Remove the bolts from the bell housing to the oil pan (3).
  • Remove the remaining oil pan bolts (4).
  • Remove the oil pan (5) from the engine block (7).
a. Important: It maybe necessary to rotate the oil pan to remove to gain enough clearance to clear the oil pump pick up tube.
  • Remove the oil pan gasket (6) from the engine block (7).
Installation Procedure

Important:


The alignment of the structural oil pan is critical. The rear bolt hole locations of the oil pan provide mounting points for the transmission housing. To ensure the rigidity of the powertrain and correct transmission alignment, it is important that the rear of the block and the rear of the oil pan are flush, or even. The rear of the oil pan must NEVER protrude beyond the engine block and transmission housing plane.

Do not use the oil pan gasket again.


It is not necessary to rivet the NEW gasket to the oil pan.





1. Apply a 5 mm (0.2 in) bead of sealant 20 mm (0.8 in) long to the engine block. Refer to Adhesives, Fluids, Lubricants, and Sealers for the correct part number. Apply the sealant directly onto the tabs of the front cover gasket that protrude into the oil pan surface.
2. Apply a 5 mm (0.2 in) bead of sealant 20 mm (0.8 in) long to the engine block. Refer to Adhesives, Fluids, Lubricants, and Sealers for the correct part number. Apply the sealant directly onto the tabs of the rear cover gasket that protrude into the oil pan surface.
3. Position the oil pan gasket (6) on the oil pan (5).
4. Using 2 bolts (4) to hold the oil pan gasket in place, install the oil pan assembly (5, 6) to the engine block (7).
5. Finger tighten the 2 bolts (4) to hold the oil pan assembly (5) in place.
Notice: Refer to Fastener Notice in the Preface section.
6. Install the mounting bolts (2 and 3) for the oil pan assembly.
Tighten
1. Tighten the oil pan mounting bolts (2) M6 to 12 Nm (106 lb in).
2. Tighten the oil pan mounting bolts (4) M8 to 25 Nm (18 lb ft).

7. Using a new oil cooler seal (3), install the oil cooler (2) and 2 bolts (1) to the oil pan.
Tighten
Tighten the oil cooler bolts to 12 Nm (106 lb in).

Reconnect the engine oil level sensor (2) electrical connector.

8. Install the right transmission cover and bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the transmission cover bolt to 12 Nm (106 lb in).

9. If equipped, install the front automatic transmission cooler line retainer and bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the automatic transmission cooler line retainer and bolts to 12 Nm (106 lb in).

10. If equipped, install the rear automatic transmission cooler lines retainer and bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the automatic transmission cooler line retainer and bolts to 12 Nm (106 lb in).

11. Install the starter assembly. Refer to Starter Motor Replacement.
12. Install the left rear transmission cover and bolt.
13. Install the oil filter. Refer to Engine Oil and Oil Filter Replacement.
14. Install the front suspension crossmember. Refer to Front Suspension Crossmember Replacement.

Cross Member Installation Procedure
Notice: The magnesium crossmember requires aluminum spacers at all metal contact points. Failure to reinstall these spacers will result in severe corrosion damage.
  • Carefully inspect the magnesium crossmember. Replace any damaged or missing spacers prior to installation.
  • Raise the crossmember to the vehicle.
2.1.
Align the crossmember dowel pins to the frame rails.
2.2.
Align the engine mount studs.





i. Notice: Refer to Fastener Notice in the Preface section.
  • Install new crossmember mounting nuts.
i. Tighten
Tighten the new crossmember mounting nuts to 110 Nm (81 lb ft).

  • Install the engine mount lower nuts. Refer to one of the following procedures:
5.
6. Engine Mount Replacement - Left Side

7.
8. Engine Mount Replacement - Right Side
  • Fasten the wheel speed sensor wiring harness retaining clips (1) to the crossmember.
  • Fasten the brake pipe to the retaining clips on the crossmember.
  • Connect the electrical harness to the clips on the crossmember.
  • Connect the brake pipe to the clips on the crossmember.
  • Install the transverse spring with the J 33432-A connected, to the crossmember. Refer to Front Transverse Spring Replacement.
  • Install the engine oil line hose bracket to the crossmember.
i. Notice: The magnesium crossmember requires the use of unique lower control arm cam bolts, washers, and aluminum bushing ferrules. Failure to use these specific components during assembly will result in severe corrosion damage.
  • Install the lower control arm to the crossmember. Refer to Lower Control Arm Replacement.
  • Install the shock absorbers to the lower control arms.
i. Tighten
Tighten the shock absorber lower mounting nuts to 28 Nm (21 lb ft).

ii. Notice: The power steering gear utilizes aluminum spacers to isolate the gear from the magnesium crossmember. To avoid severe corrosion damage, new spacers are to be installed each time the gear is removed from the crossmember.
  • Install the power steering gear to the crossmember.
i. Tighten
Tighten the power steering gear mounting bolts to 100 Nm (74 lb ft).


Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 04-19-2011 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:23 PM   #12
skamp
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I used a cherry picker like Carl mentioned. I had to replace my craddle due to a dumbass move when I installed my supercharger. Here is a link that shows how I supported the motor with the cherry picker. I hope this helps.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...lp-advice.html

Steve
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:08 PM   #13
dart.deanda
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Default Sealant for C5 oil pan gasket

What type of sealant goes on the corners of the gasket (on the block) when re-applying?
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dart.deanda View Post
What type of sealant goes on the corners of the gasket (on the block) when re-applying?
GM sealant p/n 12378190
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:51 PM   #15
taken19
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^^^ red RTV works fine. Just cover 2-3" on each corner and clean well prior to applying sealant.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:51 PM
 
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