saplumr

I don't think installing a BAP is "short cutting." Most failures are more due to the fact the BAP is turned down to far...sometimes by accident such as cleaning the area and others not knowing what the proper setting is.

Motorhead-47

I said "shortcut the labor"...meaning it takes less than an hour to install a BAP and quite a bit more for a fuel pump swap.

Interestingly enough there isn't much difference in the material cost of the two...the KB BAP is about $250.00 and the Z06 fuel pump can be had for $325.00 or so.

SpinMonster

It would be interesting to see exactly what stock part cound cause a lean condition. The only place an air leak could matter is between the mouth of the SC and the MAF. I find it hard to believe that could be missed. If the stock part used was the stock valley cover then the installer is an idiot. I dont think it would have idled right.

The tuner isnt likely to post up here if its who I think it is. Without his side to the story, this could just be a weak pistoned LS7 that gave up the ghost. Some tuners wont even do a H/C job on a stock bottom end LS7 if it goes over 600rwhp let alone if it does 600rwtq. Its why I wont work on an LS7.

So far it just looks like an LS7 lost a piston and edelbrock is saying it was lean and the tuner is saying it was a weak piston that wasnt going to take that amount of power. Any legit shop is going to have insurance for the issue and I've always said that supercharger warranties are worthless because the manufacturer will always say it was installer error. Without a 3rd party to arbitrate and do a tear down, you wont be able to tell if it was lean or why it was lean.

Personally, I'm on edelbrocks corner here because the tune is always an issue. I dont see how they are responsible once it wasnt a stock install from tune to parts. I just tuned an E-force about 3 weeks ago. The car was bone stock and the initial pull showed the car pulling 4 degrees at the TQ peak and 2 degrees at the HP peak. At this altitude and running 91 octane, I would have thought it was safe but it couldnt have run safely on a hot day on the canned tune. I'm saying that in some cases, you are forced to do a real tune. I just know the canned tune is not safe at 6500 feet with 91 octane so how can it be safe at sea level in southern california on 91?

The car was a 2007 LS2 with 15k miles on the clock.

tjwong

With a boosted stock LS7 its always a thin line. When I get customers that request a supercharger for a Z I always give them advice and let them know of all the positive and negative points about such an installation. I will do it, if its really what they want, but at the same time I lay it all out for them as well.

No telling what this shop did or what their intent was. Obviously if there was larger injectors involved, they were looking for numbers exceeding the design of the kit, aid if its true about going for 700whp, they were definitely looking for trouble.

I had a customer that had me install a AA kit on a Z looking for an extra 100hp for track use, again I told him that wasn't the wisest choice for a track application but he insisted. So rather than turn the job away and have another shop take his money, I did the install. However I told him I was going to tune it on the conservative side and its still alive today after several track sessions.

As far as value goes for the Edelbrock or for that matter any PD kit. Its definitely a nice package and worth the extra money. Pus as Motorhead mentioned a new hood isn't necessary. There isn't any centri kit that will make the torque off idle as a Maggie or an edelbrock kit will. It is the instaneous torque off idle that you feel, sure the centris will make more power on top but for over all every day driving and feel from the good old butt dyno, its tough to beat the power on tap of a PD kit. My TVS2300 kit made over 600 ft/lbs of torque at 3200 RPM and over 600hp at 4600 RPM on 7 degrees of timing with the intake charge temps obver 150 degrees. There is LOT MORE in it when I bring on about 18 to 20 degrees of timing. That power was made during some light pulls during some part throttle tuning sessions. It is still being broke in at this time. I have to also say that my installation isn't anything one would call stock as its a forged 9:1 LS7 with extensive engine mods, the blower is a TVS2300 with a LPE 10 rib front drive that has a 8.25" balancer driving a 2.9" blower pulley which is turn is driving a 50mm rear cogged drive at a 1.2:1 over drive in the rear drive. I hit 15 PSI nearly as fast as I can mat the throttle, so it hits, let say a bit hard!

rayk

Well, we will have to disagree. You sound knowledgeable, but I went through this with my mustang when I first installed the KB. Had to call KB and they sent the tech note to me which explained it. I picked up book on tuning SC engines for their base tunes and it was also in there.

The BAP never failed for me. If I didn't go with the BAP, I would have got a Cobra fuel tank and pump. That tank is correctly baffled. I got a new Cobra tank and pump, then traded the mustang in on the corvette. I had 26k miles of running the mustang on mostly road courses and it never failed.

Most failures I've seen is where a lean condition exists for a split second and detonation takes out the engine. I'll agree with you there.

I really liked the KB setup. It was like having a big block on the car. Loads of tq down low. Centri's seem to have more failures, probably from the tune.

I'm eyeballing that Edlebrock setup as I miss the low end tq. with the GS.

Motorhead-47

We can disagree but it's a fact...leave a vacuum leak downstream of the MAF and you'll induce a lean condition. Here is a very recent real world example in which a guy accidently left a cap off of a vacuum port during the initial install and guess what?..the very next day he gets a CEL for lean conditions on both cylinder banks. He plugs the port and fuel trims go back to normal.

Here is the link.... http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...questions.html

mrgillies

That was me, just to clarify, I did the instructions per the book and nothing was mentioned about that vacuum pipe for the NPP exhaust, thankfully for support of the real world experts (you guys), it probably saved me an engine.

Motorhead-47

Step #155 " Tilt the manifold back slightly to install the small
factory vacuum hose running from the driver side firewall
fitting on the small fitting on the driver side of the air inlet"

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_.../1000/1590.pdf

What maybe should be added is a comment to the instructions that if you don't have NPP exhaust you need to cap that fitting.

ITSGRAND

LS3 instructions mention nothing about the valley cover vent either.... They need to add dry sump notes all over the instructions.

Off-topic slightly
What has everyone been doing for a fuel pressure gauge on the e-force kits since the rails aren't tapped? I bet a lot of people aren't checking using a real mechanical gauge while tuning.

Motorhead-47

I used the back of the passenger side fuel rail. The fitting is a -6AN o-ring. I replaced it with this -6AN o-ring to 1/8" NPT fitting......

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRF-MP-3071/?rtype=10



and this 1/8" NPT elbow......

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EA...1ERL/?rtype=10



and here is what it looked like with the sending unit attached




Subsequent to that setup I swapped out my fuel lines so that I now feed both rails from the rear. Here is what I have in place now....

ITSGRAND

Did you leave the Edelbrock crossover line from the kit on the fuel rail front connections?

breecher_7

Im sure this one was because the installer was a hack, but......

There still overpriced worthless heat pumps in my eyes! Ive seen way to many of them installed recently cracking 460-480rwhp on auto cars, thats pathetic for the cost.

Now the new whipple kit, they finnaly got it right from what ive seen first hand so far.. Time will tell though.

Motorhead-47

I left it in place

Motorhead-47

[QUOTE=breecher_7;1578165497......recentl y cracking 460-480rwhp on auto cars...[/QUOTE]

Amazing! They are producing exactly what the manufacturer claims they will produce!...550 flywheel less the A6 drivetrain loss is right there.

breecher_7

Yes and its pathetic...

DSOMC6

Yet there are those that go beyond the manufacturers recomended power levels and believe they are covered by a warranty.

ITSGRAND

Do you know how much fun 480 RWHP and 480 RWTQ is in a 3300 lb auto car? That's a 10 sec 1/4...

breecher_7

No, but I know how much a fun cars with way more power are....

Im not saying its not fun, im sure its a blast, hell the cars are fun in stock form.

My point is simply its not alot of bang for your buck and the systems dont impress me at all for all the hype they get. Its just another PD blower, nothing ground breaking. The new whipple setup on the other hand has impressed me first hand and that is not easy to do after the years I spent playing with PD blowers.

Motorhead-47

breecher you have been reading too many fairy tales.....

I found this thread over on the other Forum I frequent...


"Former E-Force owner Impressions of Whipple SC"

A few weeks ago I decided to replace my E-Force with a Whipple, primarily for additional capacity.

At similar levels of boost, the E-Force has noticeably more torque between 2000 - 4500 rpm, above that they felt about the same. With the E-Force, the tires would break loose stomping on it in 3rd gear at 3000 rpm, not so with the Whipple. I'm hoping the overall performance will be at least as good as the E-Force. A dyno session is on the docket for this week to find out.

All in all, I like the Whipple but at my current level of boost (10psi) the E-Force was the better performer, while it was running cool at least."


Another quote from the same thread...

"I have a Lot of Seat time, Dyno Time on all Three Blowers mentioned and I can tell you without a doubt that the Edelbrocks longer runners Produce more torque both off and on boost up to 5500 RPM Where the Engineers targeted they're efforts.

It out Torques Every other blower on the Market, from Stock To heavily modified 416 LS3s and L99s

From the Drivers Seat you Can feel the difference and so can your Tires LOL"

breecher_7

Without this getting ugly....

Congrats you can read other peoples stories!

Ive personally had my hands on both blower systems. The Whipple is a MUCH better unit and runs quite a bit cooler IAT's and was capable of making a LOT more power. I personally would not recommend the edelbrock unit to anyone because I personally do not like it. My first choice would be the whipple, second the maggie. (yes the edelbrock is very similiar to the maggie but its not exactly the same)

This argument between you and I is a revolving door. You love the E-force and you will not allow anyone to tell you different, it is what it is.

I personally think its a piece of crap though. Especially for what it costs.

You and I arguing about this will never stop...

We both have our opinions and were entitled to them.

I personally cannot see how ANYONE would be in love with a blower that makes such minimal power when you can save thousands and get better performance.

Just my thoughts on it, I dont have all the time in the world to sit here and post technical data and quotes from other peoples posts. I know what works, i know what ive seen with my own eyes, and I know the pathetic numbers ive seen those things lay down even with custom tuning and increased boost.

And although whipple seems to have worked all the bugs out of putting a PD blower on a C6 I would still recommend a centri or turbo setup to anyone over it.

Plus the majority of the people on this board are going to pay someone to do the install and tune, so your probably looking at what? 10K all said and done? For sub or equal power to stock Z06 (yes i know the power curve would be very different from a stock LS7). You may as well shelled out the cash for the Z from the get go and have a N/A engine and alot more car.....

OR you could spend 6K all said and done for a A&A kit (cheaper if you install and tune yourself) and make more power.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.