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Old 07-02-2011, 06:50 PM   #1
blackmagicZ
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Default supercharger=blown engine

Awhile back I posted a thread about a friend of mine that had an E-Force supercharger put on his '08 Z06. After the install and a tune, the car was put on the dyno, where the engine blew. Talking to my bud this morning, he said Edelbrock has determined that it was the fault of the install. The shop that did the work, decided to use some stock parts instead of the ones that came with the kit. The stock parts created a gap somewhere letting allot of air to get in and causing the problem. So now all the blame rest on the shop that did the install. I was told, further action has been taken to get the shop to rectify this mess, including giving a refund.
Meanwhile, my bud had a new engine put in at his own expense and traded the car for ZR1. He understands he is out the cost of the engine, but wants a refund for the supercharger and all the labor.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #2
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It happens. The result of poor background work on a installer/tuner that someone finds out (the hardway) that they are short on knowledge and proper experience.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #3
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On a roots type install, if there is a leak after MAF and before the supercharger mouth, the car will run pig rich. If they didn't detect the leak and tuned the car for that rich condition, that could be an issue if the leak started to seal up.

It's easily detected as the O2 detectors will be maxed out.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmagicZ View Post
Awhile back I posted a thread about a friend of mine that had an E-Force supercharger put on his '08 Z06. After the install and a tune, the car was put on the dyno, where the engine blew. Talking to my bud this morning, he said Edelbrock has determined that it was the fault of the install. The shop that did the work, decided to use some stock parts instead of the ones that came with the kit. The stock parts created a gap somewhere letting allot of air to get in and causing the problem. So now all the blame rest on the shop that did the install. I was told, further action has been taken to get the shop to rectify this mess, including giving a refund.
Meanwhile, my bud had a new engine put in at his own expense and traded the car for ZR1. He understands he is out the cost of the engine, but wants a refund for the supercharger and all the labor.
We appreciate the follow-up but it would help to know exactly what parts the "shop" decided not to use from the kit. Can you be any more specific?

Last edited by Motorhead-47; 07-02-2011 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmagicZ View Post
Awhile back I posted a thread about a friend of mine that had an E-Force supercharger put on his '08 Z06. After the install and a tune, the car was put on the dyno, where the engine blew. Talking to my bud this morning, he said Edelbrock has determined that it was the fault of the install. The shop that did the work, decided to use some stock parts instead of the ones that came with the kit. The stock parts created a gap somewhere letting allot of air to get in and causing the problem. So now all the blame rest on the shop that did the install. I was told, further action has been taken to get the shop to rectify this mess, including giving a refund.
Meanwhile, my bud had a new engine put in at his own expense and traded the car for ZR1. He understands he is out the cost of the engine, but wants a refund for the supercharger and all the labor.
OK so is the purpose of this post to warn all of a certain vendor here...

If so and your friend has made the attempts to work this out to no avail why not name the tuner/shop so we can all stay clear of them!!
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by vetehead View Post
OK so is the purpose of this post to warn all of a certain vendor here...

If so and your friend has made the attempts to work this out to no avail why not name the tuner/shop so we can all stay clear of them!!
I doubt the vendor is on here.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rayk View Post
On a roots type install, if there is a leak after MAF and before the supercharger mouth, the car will run pig rich. If they didn't detect the leak and tuned the car for that rich condition, that could be an issue if the leak started to seal up.

It's easily detected as the O2 detectors will be maxed out.
disagree..air that enters the supercharger after the MAF (unmetered) will virtually guarantee a lean condition when the car enters PE mode...death to a supercharged engine.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:13 AM   #8
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With the amount of problems I've read about recently with the E-Force and the cost/HP I really have to question why anyone would purchase one?
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSOMC6 View Post
With the amount of problems I've read about recently with the E-Force and the cost/HP I really have to question why anyone would purchase one?
The thing is that people typically only come to post on a forum if they have a problem. While there may be a higher than normal percentage of posts about a problem here, I'd guess that the issues are far from normal. I think this goes for more problems than just this in particular, but you have to see the bias one will find toward the side of bad here.

I don't disagree with you (or agree; I'm pretty impartial on the subject since I can't afford any S/C right now), just trying to point that out.
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Old 07-03-2011, 06:51 AM   #10
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With the amount of problems I've read about recently with the E-Force and the cost/HP I really have to question why anyone would purchase one?
Why would anyone purchase one?...because when installed properly and tuned properly it is an outstanding choice. It was the hack install and toon that killed this guy's car...not the supercharger.
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Old 07-03-2011, 08:06 AM   #11
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The title of this thread is all wrong...it should read something like "Wrench who didn't bother to follow detailed installation instructions blew up my buddy's Z06"
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:21 AM   #12
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:39 AM   #13
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People seem to be quick to name the supercharger brand involved when things go wrong but when the details of what really happened begin to emerge they are quick to protect the shop/mechanic/tuner involved in the ***** uph. There are always two sides to the story and there are things to be learned here but so far this thread is useless and misleading.
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorhead-47 View Post
Why would anyone purchase one?...because when installed properly and tuned properly it is an outstanding choice. It was the hack install and toon that killed this guy's car...not the supercharger.
I just don't see the value in this product?
It's more $$ than other proven SC's.
The install is more involved (recomended dropping fuel tank to replace fp)
It produces less power than equally/less priced SC's.

I agree in this instance perhaps the installer screwed it up. But one has to question the product when similar products are generally trouble free considering the numbers sold.
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:41 PM   #15
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It seems to me you can find many posts about problems with many mods, including all types of superchargers. They most often stem from install issues. Most products, when installed and set up properly work as advertised. I think one issue is that the manufacurers tend to make the installs sound so easy. "Install in a day using simple hand tools". Although someone mechanically inclined who follows directions can do the install, there are many areas that can easily be screwed up. All that said, after about 1000 miles on my eforce I am still thrilled with how it drives and have no drivability issues whatsoever.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:17 PM   #16
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Default Why?

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Originally Posted by DSOMC6 View Post
With the amount of problems I've read about recently with the E-Force and the cost/HP I really have to question why anyone would purchase one?
I have an E-Force properly installed by Xtreme in Tempe, AZ. on my 08Z06. I love it! Drives like stock, until you get into the 612 rwhp. Under the hood, looks a factory piece. 100,000 mile warranty. Made in the USA by an established company. That's why.

Bruce in Arizona
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:16 PM   #17
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We appreciate the follow-up but it would help to know exactly what parts the "shop" decided not to use from the kit. Can you be any more specific?
I'll talk to my bud and get more details for you. The shop in question is a very good and trusted shop, and they have specialized in Corvette's for years. This is the very first incident of it's kind. I chose not to mention the name of the shop, because they are friends and nobody is holding them responsible, except Edelbrock. So, for now, I won't post anymore about this since it seems a few don't like this thread in the first place. BUT, when the final decision is made who is to blame, I will post it.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:27 PM   #18
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I'll talk to my bud and get more details for you. The shop in question is a very good and trusted shop, and they have specialized in Corvette's for years. This is the very first incident of it's kind. I chose not to mention the name of the shop, because they are friends and nobody is holding them responsible, except Edelbrock. So, for now, I won't post anymore about this since it seems a few don't like this thread in the first place. BUT, when the final decision is made who is to blame, I will post it.
I'm more interested in the technical details of what was done wrong and what the engine failure mode was than "who done it". Edelbrock put the kit together as a package. When you deviate from what they know works you are on your own.

Personally I'm way different than the stock Edelbrock setup and my car has lived just fine now for 15 months.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:47 PM   #19
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I just don't see the value in this product?
It's more $$ than other proven SC's.
The install is more involved (recomended dropping fuel tank to replace fp)
It produces less power than equally/less priced SC's.

I agree in this instance perhaps the installer screwed it up. But one has to question the product when similar products are generally trouble free considering the numbers sold.
It's right in the same price range as other PD blowers. PD blowers are more complex and cost more to produce than the cheaper centri units. This is also the only PD that doesn't require a new ($$$) taller hood.

I've installed centris, a Maggie and two Edelbrocks...it is not more involved to install an Edelbrock.

Regardless of what supercharger you run you have to address properly fueling the engine. The Edelbrock Z06 kit doesn't require a new Z06 pump, the car already has one. The 554hp LS2/LS3 kits do not come with nor require a new fuel pump. Only the 599hp kits come with a Z06 pump. Of all the available solutions, replacing the stock LS2/LS3 pump with an LS7 pump is the best solution IMHO. It's about a 4-5 hr one time good deal for a 1 to 1 replacement with a reliable factory OEM pump.

Many s/c companies choose to shortcut the labor and use a Boost-A-Pump or equivalent voltage amplifier to overdrive the stock pump. There are a lot of mixed results with this route. You can go search the forums and decide for yourself. I've seen some run without a hitch for years and I've seen others repeatedly leave guys stranded along the highway or worse.

The horsepower rating of these kits is wrapped around Edelbrock's ability to offer a warranty. If 554 or 599 doesn't scratch a guy's personal horsepower itch than buy the tuner kit and build it however you want...sans warranty of course.

I think I hit all the areas you addressed.
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:38 PM   #20
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For those reading this thread and staying silent and for those of you who have PM'd me in the background that may be curious...I'll leave the who-is-who out of it but I have what I believe to be a few additional relevant facts on this one....

- From what we were told in the posts above, the installer deviated from the highly detailed straightforward instructions and took their own unique install path. Unsure of what they changed or left off but maybe the OP can provide some detail?

- OP also alludes to a lean condition caused by not following instructions...most of us know that lean and supercharged are a lethal combination

- Car was tuned by the shop that blew it up (not the Edelbrock tune)

- Some chatter by the shop suggesting an attempt to get 700rwhp...over 125hp more than the kit was designed to safely handle

- Headers were installed (by itself is a non-issue but yet another deviation from the kit's designed configuration)

- Injectors larger than came with the kit were installed. 60lb come in the kit and this car apparently got 80lb injectors. (By itself a non-issue but suggests the shop was going for bigger numbers)

- Quote...."And a few other tricks" were part of the build

Not sure what was in their bag of tricks but there is a previous post about this car having too much boost...suggests a pulley swap (more boost) to me. If this indeed was the case that alone could have put this engine over the edge. Not a good idea on an 11.0 to 1 stock engine.

This one is squarely on the shop's back and Edelbrock carries no liability on this one IMHO.

Alibi: All the above information came to be via second party...I have no firsthand knowledge of any of this mess!

I'm done with this one

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