0Brian@RPT

Here is the dyno sheet from a Mayhem II, Kooks Headers and Stock Air Filter Assembly.

CDaniel525

Wow, pretty impressive numbers with a stock air filter... Imagine that with a Vararam, Halltech, etc... Gotta be close to if not over 500HP... and for only a few hundred bucks, cant believe the owner wouldnt have one on there before a cam!?

Anymore thoughts on the specs im looking at/for?

dennis50nj

the Vararam shows no gain on the dyno

CDaniel525

I know it gets most of its power at speed, but no aftermarket air filter is worth anything on the dyno?

JUIC3D

The LS3 intake is actually a pretty solid unit. There is some room for improvement, but nothing earth-shattering.

dennis50nj

i see what your saying

0Brian@RPT

This one is the right one. My personal Corvette is a 2008 C6 with the A&A Supercharger. It will be getting a Mayhem II as well. When test drove my customers Vette, I was impressed with the driving manners and was really smooth. All packages come with the hardware for a proper cam install and it will be a blast to drive.

SpinMonster

I usually dont post anymore on these threads because for some reason people accuse me of having "a dog in the race" and then I have to defend it. I dont sell cams and I rarely install them anymore.

Years ago, I had noted the LS3 heads didnt seem to ever make any more power once you hit an overlap threashold in the cam specs. It was merely an observation and I then put it to the test on a few cars. There seemed to be a silly trend that people followed where LS3 cams were all huge splits with small intake durations. I noted to myself that using smaller intake duration reduced overlap so it stood to reason why that worked but what of the exhaust duration? It too contributes to overlap by the exact same amount. The problem with data points is that not a single person ever posted that they tried a 4 degree split except for LG motorsports who in fact posted the results on LS1tech that they had acheived 493rwhp with their G5X1 cam which is a 228/232 cam.

Since the strongest result that I recall seeing on a stock LS3 head car with stock compression on a dynojet was 501rwhp by my 230/234, LG's G6X3 which is a 235 intake duration, and 21 Century's 227/235, I had concluded that this was some type of ceiling to the performance. My cam was 4 degrees overlap, 21's cam was a 5 degree, and the LG cam was 18degrees, I concluded that the 4-5 degree overlap range was about the limit before reversion eats whatever power is gained by using a bigger shot of gas with more intake duration or by scavenging gains.

LG's X1 cam being 2 degrees overlap told me that smaller splits with less overlap worked best for driveability. While the big overlap G6X3 is way better performance on better heads as shown by the use of Trick Flows, it is choked on the stock LS3 head application so why use more overlap if it yeilds the same power?

I tried a 230/242, a 230/230, a 230/236(XFI exhaust), and a 236/232 with similar results to back up the overlap theory. The 230/242 and the 230/234 made within 3HP so I called it dyno variance.

Someone earlier in this thread said the 230/234 usualy posts a 480rwhp result which isnt true. I had 5 results over 496 with a mustang dyno result at 504rwhp.

Using no underdrive pulley and no ported intake or TB, Andrew Zurich ran his car a ton of times to acheive a final result of 501rwhp and a 129.84 trap speed making it as good as any LS3 cam only result that I know of.

The thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ivability.html

I'm not selling anything but want the record straight about what a small overlap cam can do. When you want to know what works you use what works. Go to the 1/4 mile challenge thread and get a cam used in a car that posted real results. Trap speed is a great indicator of average power. ECS and Cartek posted the best LS3 results.

Someone posted that their PatG cam ran a 128 trap speed and thats in line with the top runners. ECS's LS3 cam in C6devil's car ran a 128 years ago too. There are lots of choices but they all seem to be in that same range.

Just a FYI. GM considers a rotating assembly in a car to be balanced at +/-70 grams and thats why some cars run 480rwhp while others run 500rwhp with the same cam. Its luck of the draw when they build your engine.

Good luck with your mods and share your results. I think I was all alone in the world with releasing cam specs and the industry would have been developed much better had everyone shared but thats not how it worked out. Keep the overlap under 4 degrees, use an intake duration in the 227-230 range with a 114LSA and you will hit 490rwhp.

CDaniel525

Spin, I really appreciate your technically detailed reply... I am really still learning soo much of this cam stuff. But its helpful getting knowledgeable guys like yourself and the others who posted above who have experience with these cams before!
I have many questions for someone who has your technical know how, but first, do you know of any good writeups on cam specs and how they make the car act differently?
if not, can you help me with some of these questions I came up with....

When you speak about the overlap, you mean the difference between the Intake and Exhaust DURATION... Simple math, correct? So in your cam, 230/234, it has your recommended max of 4 degrees overlap, correct?
So in the cam spec'd for me, it would have 7 degrees of overlap, correct?? 235/242 .621/.615 114+3
- So in this sense, how would it affect the car then going to a 7deg overlap other than fact it reaches a limit on power, what about idle and driveability?? Im guessing more radical, lopey idle... Slightly less smooth driveability?
- What about the simple fact the duration is longer on both the intake and exhaust? How will that change over your cam? Again guessing a bit more performance at cost of little driveability and radical idle?

Also, how will the cam/engine react differently, with a LSA of 114+3 vs. 114+1... Performance, idle, etc?? My understanding is the more advance ground in makes the car more mid-range, vs. high-end of a +1 or 0?
What about a 110/112 vs. 114? How does that change things?
Thanks a lot everyone!

SpinMonster

Your questions indicate you are going to try to better what everyone has been doing for 4 years now.

Bigger cams drive worse.

No one gets better than 500rwhp regardless of cam size.

LSA's are chosen to make a cam peak at 6300rpm where the intake manifold forces the peak so 114+0, 1, 2, ect is to move that peak. My cam at 230 intake duration on a 114+2 peaks exactly at that RPM.

The cam spec'd for you is going to peak higher but it will simply show as a flattening of the curve past 6300. A 7 degree split or more is intended to susain the HP out past the peak which it doesnt need.

As a former supporting tuner on this board, I had access to info others dont see from other tuners who shared info with me that I promised to keep to myself. I will end this by saying one of the cars that ran a 133 trap speed had a single pattern cam and was 4 degrees overlap. They used ported in house LS3 heads. So much for the big split theorists.

Just buy a proven cam instead of trying to out-think the people who installed a dozen cams to get a result.

Personally, I think the 227/235 from 21 century motor. is a best bet because it has the smallest intake duration with the earliest intake valve closing point. It drives fine at 5 degrees overlap (113 lsa) and is likely to represent the best volumetric efficiency. Bigger intake duration on wider LSA's will not have great low end TQ in comparison to that because they lower dynamic compression (such as a 235/242 114). A 227 on a 113 obviously gets the intake valve closed sonner for better low nd TQ. The HP is carried past the peak by the 7 degree split. Its a smart design. I've seen two results with it...500rwhp and a 478 result that was later retuned to get numbers in the 490's.

My cam hits 400rwtq at 3500rpm. I'm not sure how the 227 cam did but I suspect it was good. Another by product of better VE is better gas mileage.

JUIC3D

Spin, thanks for your contribution. I admit, I get a little excited when I get an email notification that you've responded to a subscribed thread. I always learn something when you post, so thank you very much for that.

My car in almost +850 DA is trapping 128 with A/Fs in the 12.0-12.2 range. I wanted a bit more grumble at idle and something a little different than the 'off the shelf' Spin cam so I went with the Pat G recommendation.

For the OP, here is my dyno graph from the cam install if you're interested. Mods are in my sig as well as my current personal best at the strip.

I remember Spin posted in my build thread and predicted the power I would make and at what rpm. . .and he was dead on.

Good luck and keep us posted.

CDaniel525

Spin, thanks for the reply again... As Justin said its appreciated even w/o you being a Supporting Vendor anymore for you to come in and help me/us understand some of this

Im definitely not trying to out think any of the cam pros out there... Lol, esp since im clueless... Just trying to learn a bit as I understand how the cam spec'd for me will work; and if I should be requesting something different!? If I end up going with the spec'd cam for me (235 242 .621 .615 114+3)
What kind of HP/TQ, idle, and driveability do you think Ill get Spin?

Justin... Im kind of in the same thought process as you were right now, looking for the similar HP range, but more of a radical, lopey idle. Want people at a red light to be
I look at your specs though, and they seem much smaller in terms of both duration and lift. 230/238 vs 235/242; duration is longer on both on my spec'd cam. .600/.615 vs .621/.615; whole lot more intake lift.
I think I figured you over lap at 8 and 10.5 on my spec'd cam... Wonder if all this is too big?? at least compared to your with great results, idle, and driveability?

JUIC3D

Here is a video my buddy took of the car going 10.91@127. I bogged a little at the line which resulted in the lower ET/MPH than I like to see, but still--you can hear the lope and how it sounds from the outside.

It's not a max effort setup by any means but I'm very pleased with the performance.

Maybe I missed it, but did Pat spec you the 235/242? That seems a little on the extreme side for what he normally suggests, but I don't have all the info. Depending on what you tell him will determine what he recommends.

In my opinion, if you haven't already done so, I'd fork over the $25 and get his recommendation. You don't have to use what he recommends, but my experience has shown he knows what he's doing.

I got a cam because I wanted the lopey idle, power gains, and the motor to scream in the upper rpms. There is no free lunch so I knew I'd give up some driveability with the cam, but I'm ok with that. It's not often I'm trying to idle along in 1st gear in a parking lot and that's when the cam is most noticeable. Even then, you learn to drive around it and what behaviors specifically trigger the bucking/surging.

TorqHQ

For anyone interested, check out our latest LS3 camshaft. Nice gains!

Although this last test was a Camaro, you can see the gains. This car has terrible/small long tubes as well.

560HP Package, C6 LS3 Corvette - TORQ

CDaniel525

No... HighHorsepowerAddicts specd the 235/242 114+4 and another supporting vendor PMd me saying they'd match the price but would do a 235/242 114+1

I just finished filling out the Pat G form and sent it in...
Wonder how long it takes, anxious now, lol

JUIC3D

He responded back to me within a day or two.

FloydSummerOf68

Got mine the next day

dennis50nj

not a c6 but an LS3, CHECK IT OUT, CARTEK knows how to spec cams which is evident according to the list, how much heavier is a camaro

JUIC3D

Ya, Cartek is no joke for sure. When I was doing my cam research, I almost went with their Stage 4 heads/cam package, but the price was just a little too much for me. I'm on a budget so I had to squeeze every out every last penny that I could.

dennis50nj

if you did, you probably would have been the
man in the 10.4s with your driving